Why no discussion about Villanueva?

[Michael Anthony]

He is a 6'11", 24 year old power forward who averaged 16 points and 7 rebounds in 27 minutes per game last season. He would form a great bigman rotation with KG and Perkins, can space the floor, and can probably play some spot minutes behind Pierce. He has size, skills and numbers similar to Rasheed, without the baggage (and to be fair, without some of the toughness).

People have questioned his heart and defense over the years, but his charritable work leads me to believe the heart is there. The defense will come under Tom T and Kevin Garnett, just like it did for Ray.

Five years at the full MLE puts us in a very good position next season, and gives us a long term solution at power forward when KG retires.

I love it. I've been a big fan of Charlie's from UCONN to when the Raps signed him. The man can score, rebound, and pass. I agree that the defense will come. I think he just needs to be surrounded by tough guys who are hungry as opposed to soft guys who just want to get paid.

He shoots 45% from the field. He shoots 32% from three, but takes 3 per game. His rebound rate is nothing special either, though much better than BBDs. No thanks, not unless he takes around 3 million per year.

To be fair, he shot .345 from three point range and .838 from the free throw line last season. He averages 24.1 points with a 52.9 true shooting percent and 9.9 rebounds per 40 minutes.

Antawn Jamison shot .351 from three and .754 from the line last season, and averaged 23.3 points with a 54.9 true shooting percent and 9.3 rebounds per 40 minutes.

Villanueva's production as an indside-outside player compares solidly to Jamison, and if he played in a bigger market in a better economy he would easily by a $10 mil per year player.

Players Villanueva is not, for reference:
Nowitzki per 40: 27.5 / 8.9 / 56.4 TS%
Gasol per 40: 20.4 / 10.4 / 61.7 TS%
Bosh per 40: 23.9 / 10.5 / 56.9 TS%
Amare per 40: 23.3 / 8.8 / 61.7 TS%

[Chris]

The problem is that he's a restricted free agent, meaning Milwaukee has the right to match.  Not only that, but the only thing we can offer is the MLE, which I don't think would get it done.

Exactly.  If we could get him for the MLE, then I absolutely think it would be worth it.  But I just can't see Milwaukee not matching that.

[Who]

Milwaukee have been very negative about the prospects of resigning both Ramon Sessions and Charlie Villanueva. If both are offered MLE deals, one of them is leaving.

The Bucks draft pick could end up playing a big role in deciding who Milwaukee chooses to keep ... say if the Bucks take one of those many point guards, or a PF like Blair.

[cordobes]

The problem is that he's a restricted free agent, meaning Milwaukee has the right to match.  Not only that, but the only thing we can offer is the MLE, which I don't think would get it done.

Are you sure the Buck are going to exercise the qualifying offer? I wouldn't be, at least until they make a bold move to clear salary.

Villanueva is a player I don't want in the Celtics, except if he comes dirty cheap.

The qualifying offer is $4.3 million.  I've got to think that the Bucks value him at that amount.  From what I've read, signing him is a priority, so I can't imagine them refusing to give a sub-MLE deal to him.

Where have you read that? Be absolutely certain of one thing: without a previous move that helps them to cut some salary, they won't be keeping Villanueva. Their priority is Sessions (and even Sessions is not a sure bet to stay) and they simply don't have additional room.

[Fafnir]

He is a 6'11", 24 year old power forward who averaged 16 points and 7 rebounds in 27 minutes per game last season. He would form a great bigman rotation with KG and Perkins, can space the floor, and can probably play some spot minutes behind Pierce. He has size, skills and numbers similar to Rasheed, without the baggage (and to be fair, without some of the toughness).

People have questioned his heart and defense over the years, but his charritable work leads me to believe the heart is there. The defense will come under Tom T and Kevin Garnett, just like it did for Ray.

Five years at the full MLE puts us in a very good position next season, and gives us a long term solution at power forward when KG retires.

I love it. I've been a big fan of Charlie's from UCONN to when the Raps signed him. The man can score, rebound, and pass. I agree that the defense will come. I think he just needs to be surrounded by tough guys who are hungry as opposed to soft guys who just want to get paid.

He shoots 45% from the field. He shoots 32% from three, but takes 3 per game. His rebound rate is nothing special either, though much better than BBDs. No thanks, not unless he takes around 3 million per year.

To be fair, he shot .345 from three point range and .838 from the free throw line last season. He averages 24.1 points with a 52.9 true shooting percent and 9.9 rebounds per 40 minutes.

Antawn Jamison shot .351 from three and .754 from the line last season, and averaged 23.3 points with a 54.9 true shooting percent and 9.3 rebounds per 40 minutes.

Villanueva's production as an indside-outside player compares solidly to Jamison, and if he played in a bigger market in a better economy he would easily by a $10 mil per year player.

Players Villanueva is not, for reference:
Nowitzki per 40: 27.5 / 8.9 / 56.4 TS%
Gasol per 40: 20.4 / 10.4 / 61.7 TS%
Bosh per 40: 23.9 / 10.5 / 56.9 TS%
Amare per 40: 23.3 / 8.8 / 61.7 TS%

52.9 True shooting PF who takes a lot of threes isn't a good sign. I don't think Jamison is worth anywhere near his contract and he plays better D than Charlie.....

[cordobes]

I'm with Fanfir. Villanueva is as inconsistent as Tony Allen, if not more. He's a high usage guy, who even when cold as a stone will keep taking shots with complete disregard for his teammates and making use of a very questionable shot-selection. He gets easily frustrated and he's a poor defender. He's a very good but unwilling passer (he's terrific passing off-the-dribble for a big man). He loses focus and concentration too often. This season he had a couple of months where he was shooting out of his mind, but in the rest of the year he was mediocre. He tweets like nobody though. Seriously, I'd rather have a less skilled but more consistent 6th man than Charlie.

[wdleehi]

He brings some nice skills, but not the skills the Celtics really need.


1) he can't play C
2) He can't really play SF.

He is just another backup PF for KG.  How many does the team need?

[Chris]

He brings some nice skills, but not the skills the Celtics really need.


1) he can't play C
2) He can't really play SF.

He is just another backup PF for KG.  How many does the team need?

While I agree, I think he is a significant upgrade talentwise over the guys they have. 

Now, I am not sure about his attitude, since it has always seemed suspect, but if he does seem like he is ready to get his act together, then he absolutely would be a nice upgrade over the backup PF's they have.

For example, if it comes down to paying him or Big Baby similar money, I would give it to Villanueva in a second...and I am a Big Baby fan.

[wdleehi]

He brings some nice skills, but not the skills the Celtics really need.


1) he can't play C
2) He can't really play SF.

He is just another backup PF for KG.  How many does the team need?

While I agree, I think he is a significant upgrade talentwise over the guys they have. 

Now, I am not sure about his attitude, since it has always seemed suspect, but if he does seem like he is ready to get his act together, then he absolutely would be a nice upgrade over the backup PF's they have.

For example, if it comes down to paying him or Big Baby similar money, I would give it to Villanueva in a second...and I am a Big Baby fan.

True, but then Davis will likely cost less.

[Fafnir]

He brings some nice skills, but not the skills the Celtics really need.


1) he can't play C
2) He can't really play SF.

He is just another backup PF for KG.  How many does the team need?

For example, if it comes down to paying him or Big Baby similar money, I would give it to Villanueva in a second...and I am a Big Baby fan.

Oh I agree. If Glenn/Charlie both are asking for the same money you'd pick Charlie. Just because of his rebounding if nothing else. But I think Charlie will be looking for more money than Glenn. Plus he'd eat into our MLE.

Still if we're upgrading the frontcourt he's 5th or 6th on my wish list. And I want a true backup SF more than I want another big!

[Chris]

He brings some nice skills, but not the skills the Celtics really need.


1) he can't play C
2) He can't really play SF.

He is just another backup PF for KG.  How many does the team need?

While I agree, I think he is a significant upgrade talentwise over the guys they have. 

Now, I am not sure about his attitude, since it has always seemed suspect, but if he does seem like he is ready to get his act together, then he absolutely would be a nice upgrade over the backup PF's they have.

For example, if it comes down to paying him or Big Baby similar money, I would give it to Villanueva in a second...and I am a Big Baby fan.

True, but then Davis will likely cost less.

True...and I think its a moot point anyways, because I expect Milwaukee to match any deal up to the MLE for Villain. 

Where have you read that? Be absolutely certain of one thing: without a previous move that helps them to cut some salary, they won't be keeping Villanueva. Their priority is Sessions (and even Sessions is not a sure bet to stay) and they simply don't have additional room.

Good point.  But I fully expect them to make a move, prior to the draft (and free agency) to clear the space. 

[2short]

I'd rather him at pf than davis honestly.  I like davis offensive skill set but his rebounding for a pf is not good.  His length kills us against certain teams but he can play backup c in instances.
Tony Allen & davis for charilie and....?

[winsomme]

The problem is that he's a restricted free agent, meaning Milwaukee has the right to match.  Not only that, but the only thing we can offer is the MLE, which I don't think would get it done.

Are you sure the Buck are going to exercise the qualifying offer? I wouldn't be, at least until they make a bold move to clear salary.

Villanueva is a player I don't want in the Celtics, except if he comes dirty cheap.

The qualifying offer is $4.3 million.  I've got to think that the Bucks value him at that amount.  From what I've read, signing him is a priority, so I can't imagine them refusing to give a sub-MLE deal to him.

Where have you read that? Be absolutely certain of one thing: without a previous move that helps them to cut some salary, they won't be keeping Villanueva. Their priority is Sessions (and even Sessions is not a sure bet to stay) and they simply don't have additional room.

but they could also extend a qualifying offer not just to bring him back but to use him in a S&T deal.

I think he is a good enough player that MIL will not simply let him walk.

That said, I am more wanting Bigs to be hardnosed guys. and in that light i would prefer Dice or ZaZa type guys.

I think they fit the role better.

[Lucky17]

Have to admit I haven't given CV much thought.

Wonder if Dumars might make a play for him. Could CV play PF in Detroit?

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

He is a 6'11", 24 year old power forward who averaged 16 points and 7 rebounds in 27 minutes per game last season. He would form a great bigman rotation with KG and Perkins, can space the floor, and can probably play some spot minutes behind Pierce. He has size, skills and numbers similar to Rasheed, without the baggage (and to be fair, without some of the toughness).

People have questioned his heart and defense over the years, but his charritable work leads me to believe the heart is there. The defense will come under Tom T and Kevin Garnett, just like it did for Ray.

Five years at the full MLE puts us in a very good position next season, and gives us a long term solution at power forward when KG retires.

I love it. I've been a big fan of Charlie's from UCONN to when the Raps signed him. The man can score, rebound, and pass. I agree that the defense will come. I think he just needs to be surrounded by tough guys who are hungry as opposed to soft guys who just want to get paid.

He shoots 45% from the field. He shoots 32% from three, but takes 3 per game. His rebound rate is nothing special either, though much better than BBDs. No thanks, not unless he takes around 3 million per year.

Fafnir,

He's struggled with lingering injuries on and off. He has the capability (not potential) of double-digit rebounding on a nightly basis. He went on a tear towards the end of this season, is probably unhappy in (Alice Cooper voice:) Mill-lay-walk-kay, and would be pumped to sign on with a contender IMO.