Danny has quite a bit of blame to fail us to repeat

[LB3533]

Maybe KG doesn't get hurt if we had an adequate bench or rotation?

[BballTim]

You could say the same about James Posey, but it`s just not true.
KG´s injury was the sole reason why we didn`t repeat, imo.
No Posey and no Birdman could`ve changed that.
Sure, someone like Posey could have spelled Pierce and Ray during the regular season, and maybe they wouldn`t have been that tired. Maybe they would`ve made it to the ECF.

But all this talk is moot, and contains too many "If`s" for my taste.
Bottom line: No KG, no championsjip.

I'm sorry, we don't get by cleveland even with KG if the bench remains the same.  Cleveland was better than the C's all year long and that would not change in the playoffs.  Even assuming by some miracle we get by cleveland, we would be underdogs in the finals against the Lakers, and would have been a terrible matchup against them.  denver would be a different story, but still not an easy victory.

The C's bench lacks depth, lacks impact players, and is filled with mostly inconsistent players that once a series may decide to show up (davis being the exception, but if KG plays, he doesn't mature nearly as much as he did).

  We were ahead of Cleveland when KG went down with an easier remaining schedule. We had the inside track for home court and our defense was really coming together. We were also underdogs against the Lakers last year.

[Roy Hobbs]

Maybe KG doesn't get hurt if we had an adequate bench or rotation?

I doubt that.  KG was averaging roughly 32 minutes per game this season leading up to the injury.  I'm not sure how much more people can ask Doc to rest him.  I don't think the bench would have changed much for KG.

I do think that an adequate bench would have gotten Paul and Ray more rest during the season, and would have led to the team getting by Orlando and facing Cleveland, even without KG.

[Fafnir]

Maybe KG doesn't get hurt if we had an adequate bench or rotation?

He was playing almost the same minutes as he did last year, 32 per game. Well below his career average of 37 per game. Ray and Pierce were hurt by the lack of a backup 3, KG not so.

[Casperian]

That's where we differ, I suppose. If KG's healthy, he's blown out, minutes-wise, and we suffer as a result. Davis might have helped mitigate that some, but he wasn't really making a splash pre-injury.

I felt - and said here - that we would not repeat in August after it was apparent management was downsizing the bench to save money, and I've seen nothing since to change my mind. The seeds for the early end of this season were sown with management's unwillingness to commit to a championship-caliber roster.

And I'll say the same for next year: No competent 3, no help at the 4 and 5, and you can scratch next year off your list too, regardless of KG's health. Add a McDyess, and trade for a versatile 3 who can do all the things Posey did - interesting to hear Doc admit that he needs a defender and outside shooter from the 3 yesterday, and the picture changes.

But if you don't fill those voids, nah. Not going to happen.

I agree, as I did many times before. But considering yesterday´s quotes, both Danny and Doc seem to be aware of the situation. So it´s either crying about spilled milk or beating a dead horse. We´ll never know how this season would´ve played out.

What we do know is that Perk, Rondo and Baby really improved this year, and we also know how this team performed without KG, things we didn´t know last August. If you put KG on that team, with all the defense and intangibles he brings to the table, we have at least a 50:50 chance to beat the Cavs, and an even better chance to beat the Lakers, imo. It´s a worse team than 07/08, but it´s still good enough to win a Championship.

So, to summarize: Generally, I agree with you. We just can´t talk about the "what if" and expect to come to a satisfying conclusion. That´s why we had no real argument last August, even if we were right. That´s why it felt like talking to a wall (I guess you know what I mean). I think we should wait until we see which tricks Ainge pulls out of his magic hat. We can use last off-season to evaluate Danny´s moves this year, but we can´t use last year´s success to evaluate his last off-season. Unfortunately, KG´s injury makes all this talk moot. We had enough backups for PF, and he still got injured.

[BballTim]

You could say the same about James Posey, but it`s just not true.
KG´s injury was the sole reason why we didn`t repeat, imo.
No Posey and no Birdman could`ve changed that.
Sure, someone like Posey could have spelled Pierce and Ray during the regular season, and maybe they wouldn`t have been that tired. Maybe they would`ve made it to the ECF.

But all this talk is moot, and contains too many "If`s" for my taste.
Bottom line: No KG, no championsjip.

Actually, the biggest jeopardy we face going into this off-season is an over-reliance on the injury excuse. If management doesn't recognize what it failed - miserably - to accomplish during the off-season and the deadline, we won't be in any position to contend next season, either.

It's more than just injuries. It's no depth whatsoever - and I disagree about the failure to add a competent 3 off the bench.

In fact, IMO, we don't beat Cleveland with KG and Powe. At least we get there. But we don't win, and the proof was in watching a worn-down and beaten-up Pierce in the Orlando series.

When we dealt for Garnett and Ray, we put ourselves in a position where it was essential to add reserves who could help compensate for lost court time, given the age of the Big 3. We had some of that last year, and we had none of that this year. IMO, again, if Ainge and Grousbeck use the injuries to rationalize their lack of performance over the last year, you can scratch next year off your list, too. Injuries are a factor in the early end to this season, but they are not the only factor.

No bench, no title.

  The reason Paul was worn down was injuries. Before KG went down he was averaging about 36 minutes. After KG went down he was probably closer to 40. KG and Powe are healthy, Ray and Paul are less tired, Davis and Powe off the bench makes for decent bench contributions. We'd be no worse than a tossup against Cleveland, especially if we had home court.

[cordobes]

I hope that unlike some posters, Ainge fully understands he took some really bad decisions last Summer. Otherwise, there's the risk he may repeat it this one and that would be extremely depressing.

[jdpapa3]

It's not like Danny forgot to do his due diligence with the Birdman. They invited him out to Boston, wine and dined him, and went in another direction. If he was out of shape or Doc and Danny didn't think his personality would mesh with the team, I am fine with the decision. I, for one, am skeptical of the whole "food poisoning" thing. Think of how rare that is for an NBA player to miss a game with that.

Danny tried to address the length issue with POB and he was too much of a project. If Mikki Moore was on the FA market last summer as a minimum contract guy, guys would've been clamoring for him. He never really got to use his skillset in Boston. He thrives on a running game and one where he picks and pops. He never got comfortable in the offense and looked lost on defense. Maybe he just wasn't smart enough to pick up our system in a couple of months. PJ finally started to get it in the ECF's last year. It's not so easy when you don't have training camp. The bottom line here is that we have at least a 25% chance to win it all with KG/Perk/Powe/Davis as our big man rotation.

Danny tried to shore up the backup 3 by drafting 2 guys that he liked. I don't know what happened here, but I get the feeling Doc just didn't ever feel comfortable with either, which is a shame because it burned Paul out by the end. Doc lost faith in JR in training camp. He must've looked really lost because his skillset in the DL looked nice. He fits the description of what a lot of people are clamoring for, without the veteran status. Long athletic defender.

Like Roy Hobbs said, title hopes were washed away with an injured KG. Even if we do get by Orlando and KG hobbles out there for 20 minutes a night, we don't win the championship. You just don't win titles with injuries.

[LB3533]

Maybe KG doesn't get hurt if we had an adequate bench or rotation?

I doubt that.  KG was averaging roughly 32 minutes per game this season leading up to the injury.  I'm not sure how much more people can ask Doc to rest him.  I don't think the bench would have changed much for KG.

I do think that an adequate bench would have gotten Paul and Ray more rest during the season, and would have led to the team getting by Orlando and facing Cleveland, even without KG.

Maybe KG doesn't get hurt if we had an adequate bench or rotation?

He was playing almost the same minutes as he did last year, 32 per game. Well below his career average of 37 per game. Ray and Pierce were hurt by the lack of a backup 3, KG not so.

I wasn't focusing on the minutes that KG was playing, but instead had we had a better bench, like with a Chris Anderson, maybe we don't need to have KG be the one attempting riskier or highlight plays.

Maybe we throw lobs to Chris Anderson more and save KG the trouble?

I actually believe that even though Doc did his best to manage minutes, when he could (but ultimately he never really cared or believed high minutes bothered our guys), the way our guys played those minutes were really grueling and took its toll.

Sure Ray and Paul might have only played 35-36 minutes per game for the first 2 months, but they were hard minutes. Same for KG's 33 minutes per game.

Had we had an adequate bench, maybe they don't need take that much of a beating throughout the start of the season.

[Casperian]

I hope that unlike some posters, Ainge fully understands he took some really bad decisions last Summer. Otherwise, there's the risk he may repeat it this one and that would be extremely depressing.

"It´s human to make a mistake. The difference between stupid and smart people is that smart people learn from their mistakes."

At least that´s what I´ve learned.
There is no GM in any sports that never made a mistake.

Red made some mistakes as well. Passing up Bob Cousy in the Draft, for example. It happens. Danny gambled, and lost. More important to me is that he doesn´t repeat this mistakes.

[jdpapa3]

I hope that unlike some posters, Ainge fully understands he took some really bad decisions last Summer. Otherwise, there's the risk he may repeat it this one and that would be extremely depressing.

I don't see the "really bad decisions" part. Maybe Tony Allen, but he looked good until his injuries crept up on him again. Tony Allen was insurance that didn't pan out, but I don't see how you could say that was a really bad decision.

The only names I see tossed out there are Barnes and Anderson. They put in the time on Anderson and Barnes is a west coast boy.

[Fafnir]

Maybe KG doesn't get hurt if we had an adequate bench or rotation?

I doubt that.  KG was averaging roughly 32 minutes per game this season leading up to the injury.  I'm not sure how much more people can ask Doc to rest him.  I don't think the bench would have changed much for KG.

I do think that an adequate bench would have gotten Paul and Ray more rest during the season, and would have led to the team getting by Orlando and facing Cleveland, even without KG.

Maybe KG doesn't get hurt if we had an adequate bench or rotation?

He was playing almost the same minutes as he did last year, 32 per game. Well below his career average of 37 per game. Ray and Pierce were hurt by the lack of a backup 3, KG not so.

I wasn't focusing on the minutes that KG was playing, but instead had we had a better bench, like with a Chris Anderson, maybe we don't need to have KG be the one attempting riskier or highlight plays.

Maybe we throw lobs to Chris Anderson more and save KG the trouble?

I actually believe that even though Doc did his best to manage minutes, when he could (but ultimately he never really cared or believed high minutes bothered our guys), the way our guys played those minutes were really grueling and took its toll.

Sure Ray and Paul might have only played 35-36 minutes per game for the first 2 months, but they were hard minutes. Same for KG's 33 minutes per game.

Had we had an adequate bench, maybe they don't need take that much of a beating throughout the start of the season.

Jumping up to put down a lob is a risky play? Really!? For a 7 foot big man with Garnett's length that is a simple basketball play. You can't play basketball "safely", Garnett's knee got hurt, it happens. Nothing that Danny could have done to prevent that short of holding him out the second his knee bothered him and getting the surgery then. But if you did that with every minor ache and pain you'd never field a full roster in the league.

Chris Andersen being a C, hell anyone wouldn't have cut down KG's minutes from 32 a game early in the season. And somehow I doubt having someone like that on the bench would KG from trying to dunk the ball, or jump high for rebounds, or block shots.

[LB3533]

Ya, I won't say that Danny made serious errors. He just didn't make the best decisions for his team.

He kinda tried to be smart or guile and it didn't pan out.

Basically the way the season went, almost "worse case scenerio" happened and the miss calculations on Danny's part really handcuffed the team and bit them in the rear end.

But as a GM and most GM's talk about long term and big picture...Danny failed to provide the team with contingency plans to protect his roster from all the possible outcomes of a season.

I fully know that the hope was for KG to come back and not to see or expect Powe to get hurt...so yeah maybe Mikki Moore and Stephon would have been enough with a healthy Powe and KG. But were there better alternatives out there during that time?

Joe Smith? Drew Gooden? These guys became available after we signed Mikki Moore.

[LB3533]

Jumping up to put down a lob is a risky play? Really!? For a 7 foot big man with Garnett's length that is a simple basketball play. You can't play basketball "safely", Garnett's knee got hurt, it happens. Nothing that Danny could have done to prevent that short of holding him out the second his knee bothered him and getting the surgery then. But if you did that with every minor ache and pain you'd never field a full roster in the league.

Chris Andersen being a C, hell anyone wouldn't have cut down KG's minutes from 32 a game early in the season. And somehow I doubt having someone like that on the bench would KG from trying to dunk the ball, or jump high for rebounds, or block shots.

Well if the KG's knee was previously known to have been problematic and, we are all aware of our aging Big 3, not just KG, then yes leaving the floor to throw down a highlight dunk is especially risky.

If KG was 24, and in tip top health, then ya an alley oop is just basic basketball play.

Doc does tell our guys to make the simple pass and not the highly risky or highlight pass.

All I am saying is did management do everything they could to safeguard our chances to defend our title?

[Fafnir]

KG's injury in my view was almost certainly the result of wear and tear on his knee. The specific play that he finally aggravatted it on wasn't important, avoidable, or the cause. It was only a matter of time before he came down when jumping and got hurt.

Nor do I think that you can safeguard against losing a player the caliber of KG. Danny could have done better, primarily in getting us a backup wing better than Tony. But our bigs going into this season were KG/Perk/BBD/Powe/Scal which is pretty good. Mikki wasn't a contributor in the playoffs in the end either. But I don't think we ever had a shot at Joe Smith, McDyess, or Gooden. Mtumbo is the only backup big I think we had a real shot at.