Dream Off-season

[arctic 3.0]

sign and trade davis for travis outlaw
sign powe
sign chucky atkins for lle
cut or trade tony and gabe
find some money somewhere and sign that gortat kid away from orlando

rondo, atkins
allen, house, walker
pierce, outlaw walker
KG, outlaw, powe scal
perk, gortat, scal

[PosImpos]

I'll go with my dream realistic off-season:

1. Sign Antonio McDyess, Grant Hill, and Quinton Ross (MLE, LLE and minimum salary)

2.  Resign BBD, Starbury, and Powe.

3.  Let Pruitt and Moore walk.

4.  Trade Tony and Scal for Nocioni.

Roster:

Perk / McDyess / BBD
KG / BBD / Nocioni / Powe
Pierce / Hill / Nocioni / Walker
Ray / Ross / House / Giddens
Rondo / Starbury / House

To me, that's a "win now" team, that still retains its key pieces for the future.  It's also a team that we could put together using our current cap exceptions.

This would be fantastic.  

Very very optimistic though, especially TA and Scal for Nocioni.  I think we'd be lucky to get either Hill or Nocioni (both is hoping for a lot), and McDyess or maybe Rasho / Ratliff.  Ross on top of that would probably be tough too.

The biggest problem I see with that team is that not all of those players would be able to see significant playing time, and they're good enough that they would probably want to be on a team where they can get significant playing time (more than 5-10 minutes a game), which they wouldn't see here unless there were injuries.  Players will sign for less money for the chance at a championship, but I doubt they'll do so if they don't think they'll play a significant role.

[Roy Hobbs]

Ross on top of that would probably be tough too.

I'm not sure about that.  He didn't sign last year until late September, and had to settle for a non-guaranteed deal.  I don't think he'd turn down a chance to play with a playoff contender for a guaranteed minimum deal.  Maybe Memphis offers him more money, but if no other team was willing to give him money last season, I doubt they do this year, when the economy is in the tank.

[BballTim]

What lesson do they need to learn? Just becuase they didn't sign the guys you wanted doesn't mean they FAILED. You guys are so thick headed, we won 62 games with KG out for 1/3 of the season, he didn't play for the entire playoffs and we were one game away from the ECF's.

The team won 62 games, but couldn't count on more than 1/3 of its roster for contributions (Walker, Giddens, Pruitt, Tony, Moore, and really, Starbury too.)  With two major injuries, less than 50% of the team was playing and contributing consistently.  There's a lesson to be learned there, I think, which is to fill the roster with legitimate NBA players.

  I don't think there's a team left playing that could survive the injuries we did. If KG was healthy we could have gotten away with playing the subs a little more, we'd have swept the Bulls instead of playing 7 games + 7 OTs. The issues with the bench were magnified because of injuries but the bench was never going to be strong enough to overcome an injury to KG and win the title.

[indeedproceed]

Dream offseason:

Sign: Grant Hill, Ime Udoka, Antonio McDyess

Resign: BBD, Powe

Let Walk: Moore

Cut: Tony Allen, one of Marbury/Pruitt...preferably Pruitt. I don't care.

[Roy Hobbs]

What lesson do they need to learn? Just becuase they didn't sign the guys you wanted doesn't mean they FAILED. You guys are so thick headed, we won 62 games with KG out for 1/3 of the season, he didn't play for the entire playoffs and we were one game away from the ECF's.

The team won 62 games, but couldn't count on more than 1/3 of its roster for contributions (Walker, Giddens, Pruitt, Tony, Moore, and really, Starbury too.)  With two major injuries, less than 50% of the team was playing and contributing consistently.  There's a lesson to be learned there, I think, which is to fill the roster with legitimate NBA players.

  I don't think there's a team left playing that could survive the injuries we did. If KG was healthy we could have gotten away with playing the subs a little more, we'd have swept the Bulls instead of playing 7 games + 7 OTs. The issues with the bench were magnified because of injuries but the bench was never going to be strong enough to overcome an injury to KG and win the title.

Nowhere in my post did I state, or even imply, that we should have won the title once KG and Powe went down.  However, having a roster where between 40% - 50% of your roster isn't contributing probably isn't the recipe for sustained playoff success, especially when 60% of your starting lineup is 31+ years old.

The depth would have handicapped us, even if both KG and Powe were healthy. 

[BballTim]

What lesson do they need to learn? Just becuase they didn't sign the guys you wanted doesn't mean they FAILED. You guys are so thick headed, we won 62 games with KG out for 1/3 of the season, he didn't play for the entire playoffs and we were one game away from the ECF's.

The team won 62 games, but couldn't count on more than 1/3 of its roster for contributions (Walker, Giddens, Pruitt, Tony, Moore, and really, Starbury too.)  With two major injuries, less than 50% of the team was playing and contributing consistently.  There's a lesson to be learned there, I think, which is to fill the roster with legitimate NBA players.

  I don't think there's a team left playing that could survive the injuries we did. If KG was healthy we could have gotten away with playing the subs a little more, we'd have swept the Bulls instead of playing 7 games + 7 OTs. The issues with the bench were magnified because of injuries but the bench was never going to be strong enough to overcome an injury to KG and win the title.

Nowhere in my post did I state, or even imply, that we should have won the title once KG and Powe went down.  However, having a roster where between 40% - 50% of your roster isn't contributing probably isn't the recipe for sustained playoff success, especially when 60% of your starting lineup is 31+ years old.

The depth would have handicapped us, even if both KG and Powe were healthy. 

  Likewise I didn't state or imply that you did. My point was that the depth issues were exacerbated by the injuries. For instance, with Pierce and Rondo on the bench, Ray and Perk with Baby/Scal, House and Marbury is a disaster. House and Marbury with Ray, Perk and KG could probably hold it's own for a while. Aside from making the Chicago series much shorter, having KG would have meant more rest for Paul and Ray in general. Also, making Baby and not Scal the first big off the bench would have made a big difference (no pun intended). Surely the bench could have been better but just as surely a healthy KG would have meant more minutes for Steph and Eddie.

[the_Bird]

MLE for McDyess or 'Sheed; 'Sheed would probably be a little better at backing up at the 5, but McDyess is much less of a headcass, so I can'd decide who'd be better.

Re-sign BBD; can't imagine he gets too many huge offers this offseason, not in this economy; three or four year at $4M - $5M per?  Perk-sized contract?

Rondo to an extension, although that's probably the longshot; if he can continue to grow his game next season, he'll be one helluva sloppy-seconds for whichever teams lose out on the LeBron/Wade/Bosh-derby.  He may decided it's better to gamble and not sign an extension if he's not getting a number like $12/yr.

Someone like Ross off the bench would be ideal, at the LLE or min.  As much as I respect Grant Hill, I'd rather go for defense at this point.

I really *don't* want to trade Ray Allen, but you'd be dumb not to listen to phone calls.  Weren't there some rumblings that Detroit might still want to clear cap space?  If they were looking to move Rip Hamilton or Tayshaun Prince in a deal like the Billups trade- get a decent, older player with an expiring contract - wouldn't you have to THINK about it?  That kind of deal - for a younger, All-Star talent from a team looking to clear cap space - NOT giving him away for lesser talent. 

Re-sign Powe; he's shown enough where SOMEONE will offer him a vet min contract, even rehabbing.  Give him a fair deal, maybe a wee above the min in exchange for a team option for a second season.  If he comes back and plays lights-out, let's keep out options open.

As to the roster flotsam + jetsam (Giddens, Pruitt, TA), doesn't matter unless we need the roster space.

This is an offseason where if we're aggressive, we should be able to get things done.  Teams will be in cost-cutting mode, if ownership is serious about getting #18, if game 7 left as bad a taste in their mouth as it did in mine, we shouldn't be competing with as many teams for free agents and we might be able to snag some talent in a trade. 

[WeMadeIt17]

Well with a post i was just reading from realgm.com looks like Celts will look hard to either improve the backup behind pierce or look hard for someone that can give paul pierce a "Blow" from what Doc said so hopefully that means signing a good vet so we shall see I am just ready for the off-season!

[wiley]

MLE for McDyess or 'Sheed; 'Sheed would probably be a little better at backing up at the 5, but McDyess is much less of a headcass, so I can'd decide who'd be better.

Re-sign BBD; can't imagine he gets too many huge offers this offseason, not in this economy; three or four year at $4M - $5M per?  Perk-sized contract?

Rondo to an extension, although that's probably the longshot; if he can continue to grow his game next season, he'll be one helluva sloppy-seconds for whichever teams lose out on the LeBron/Wade/Bosh-derby.  He may decided it's better to gamble and not sign an extension if he's not getting a number like $12/yr.

Someone like Ross off the bench would be ideal, at the LLE or min.  As much as I respect Grant Hill, I'd rather go for defense at this point.

I really *don't* want to trade Ray Allen, but you'd be dumb not to listen to phone calls.  Weren't there some rumblings that Detroit might still want to clear cap space?  If they were looking to move Rip Hamilton or Tayshaun Prince in a deal like the Billups trade- get a decent, older player with an expiring contract - wouldn't you have to THINK about it?  That kind of deal - for a younger, All-Star talent from a team looking to clear cap space - NOT giving him away for lesser talent. 

Re-sign Powe; he's shown enough where SOMEONE will offer him a vet min contract, even rehabbing.  Give him a fair deal, maybe a wee above the min in exchange for a team option for a second season.  If he comes back and plays lights-out, let's keep out options open.

As to the roster flotsam + jetsam (Giddens, Pruitt, TA), doesn't matter unless we need the roster space.

This is an offseason where if we're aggressive, we should be able to get things done.  Teams will be in cost-cutting mode, if ownership is serious about getting #18, if game 7 left as bad a taste in their mouth as it did in mine, we shouldn't be competing with as many teams for free agents and we might be able to snag some talent in a trade. 

Agree with you about Powe.  

Regarding Ray, I really don't believe Danny would send Ray to a Detroit team that's seeking to tank.  I know it's a business, but he just wouldn't do that to Ray.  Bill Belicheck might not even do that.  I think with class, longevity and ability, Ray is one of those veterans who has entered contender land, meaning he'll never again play for a sucky, tanking team.  The only positive for Ray in such a deal would be that he would probably go back to scoring 28 points per game and get a bigger contract the year after.  But that's not enough silver lining imo, especially because it's only a maybe.

[bknova]

The reality is we're in veteran's minimum mode.  That said, this could be a great offseason for us with teams looking to not take on big contracts to save money for the next offseason free agency period. 

1)  Add another big...first target should be McDeyess (as I don't see Sheed signing for anything less than a multi year full MLE deal).  Behind him, I don't mind a 2 yeard deal on Robert Swift, he has length and bulk and could develop into a serviceable backup 5 under Clifford Ray.

2)  Only bring Baby back if the dollars make sense.  No need to overpay for him.  Other than his ability to hit the open jumper, his game is full of holes.

3)  Powe can be brought back on the cheap.  Or be the midseason acquisition.  He's a better rebounder and better post player than Baby.

4)  Bring back Marbury on the cheap.  I don't think he played himself into any sort of real deal.  A real offseason and training camp might actually bring back that jumpshot.  If not, its time to let Pruitt loose.  I thought he played well with the second unit mid season.

5)  Bye bye Tony Allen.  Your time has come and gone. 

6)  Draft Danny Green or Sam Young.  I love their games.  They are from big time programs and big time conferences.  Green can slot in at the 2/3, Young can back up Pierce.  They are gamers that can hit open 3's, finish around the hoop and play defense.  I see Green as this years Trevor Ariza.

With the development of Billy Walker and JR Giddens, and the continued growth of Rondo, this team can be deeper and at find more rest for PP, KG, and Ray Smooth during the regular season.  And that was one of the biggest reasons why we lost to the Magic, they just ran out of gas.

[droopdog7]

Sign Wallace or McDyess.  Sign Grant Hill.  Sign BBD to a max 3 mil per year contract or let him walk.  Off the bench, keep Scal, Walker, House, and let the others walk.  The only hesitency would be with Marbury.  He should be affordable (and likely the most talented option) but I am holding out hope that Hill can still play some PG.  If not, then resign Marbury as well.

[winsomme]

I'll go with my dream realistic off-season:

1. Sign Antonio McDyess, Grant Hill, and Quinton Ross (MLE, LLE and minimum salary)

2.  Resign BBD, Starbury, and Powe.

3.  Let Pruitt and Moore walk.

4.  Trade Tony and Scal for Nocioni.

Roster:

Perk / McDyess / BBD
KG / BBD / Nocioni / Powe
Pierce / Hill / Nocioni / Walker
Ray / Ross / House / Giddens
Rondo / Starbury / House

To me, that's a "win now" team, that still retains its key pieces for the future.  It's also a team that we could put together using our current cap exceptions.

I had no idea such a team was conceivable.  I love that team, and even if Baby is too expensive to keep, I would still love that team, and a cheap 7 footer could be added in his place. 

The Nocioni part is the long-shot part of the scenario.  Sacramento may be willing to get out from under his contract, much like they explored last season.  We'd almost certainly have to contribute cash, and potentially a pick.

I agree, though:  if we could put together that team, even without BBD, I'd be happy with it.

unfortunately the Nocioni part is my favorite of the lot. not because i don't like the other guys mentioned, but because a hard-nosed, shooting SF/PF is my priority for this off season.

I just think this is the most important spot we have to fill. both because of the need for that spot on the team and the dearth of options out there to successfully fill the role.

[winsomme]

What lesson do they need to learn? Just becuase they didn't sign the guys you wanted doesn't mean they FAILED. You guys are so thick headed, we won 62 games with KG out for 1/3 of the season, he didn't play for the entire playoffs and we were one game away from the ECF's.

The team won 62 games, but couldn't count on more than 1/3 of its roster for contributions (Walker, Giddens, Pruitt, Tony, Moore, and really, Starbury too.)  With two major injuries, less than 50% of the team was playing and contributing consistently.  There's a lesson to be learned there, I think, which is to fill the roster with legitimate NBA players.

  I don't think there's a team left playing that could survive the injuries we did. If KG was healthy we could have gotten away with playing the subs a little more, we'd have swept the Bulls instead of playing 7 games + 7 OTs. The issues with the bench were magnified because of injuries but the bench was never going to be strong enough to overcome an injury to KG and win the title.

but it could have been strong enough to get us to a point where maybe KG could have started playing again...

[wiley]

I'll go with my dream realistic off-season:

1. Sign Antonio McDyess, Grant Hill, and Quinton Ross (MLE, LLE and minimum salary)

2.  Resign BBD, Starbury, and Powe.

3.  Let Pruitt and Moore walk.

4.  Trade Tony and Scal for Nocioni.

Roster:

Perk / McDyess / BBD
KG / BBD / Nocioni / Powe
Pierce / Hill / Nocioni / Walker
Ray / Ross / House / Giddens
Rondo / Starbury / House

To me, that's a "win now" team, that still retains its key pieces for the future.  It's also a team that we could put together using our current cap exceptions.

I had no idea such a team was conceivable.  I love that team, and even if Baby is too expensive to keep, I would still love that team, and a cheap 7 footer could be added in his place. 

The Nocioni part is the long-shot part of the scenario.  Sacramento may be willing to get out from under his contract, much like they explored last season.  We'd almost certainly have to contribute cash, and potentially a pick.

I agree, though:  if we could put together that team, even without BBD, I'd be happy with it.

unfortunately the Nocioni part is my favorite of the lot. not because i don't like the other guys mentioned, but because a hard-nosed, shooting SF/PF is my priority for this off season.

I just think this is the most important spot we have to fill. both because of the need for that spot on the team and the dearth of options out there to successfully fill the role.

I agree that that's a key spot, along with the obviously needed backup big(s), of which McDyess would get my vote.

But I wouldn't mind having two Nocioni types (Nocioni and Posey, for example).  How else to handle Cleveland, Orlando and L.A. next year.  Also helps Garnett come back more slowly and wisely from the knee problem...