I love Shane Battier

[PosImpos]

Shane Battier is one of my favorite players.

Not only is he an awesome defender who puts in a great amount of effort every night, but he's also extremely intelligent and well spoken.

[cordobes]

Don't know if any of you watched the Rockets open a can on the Lakers this afternoon, but Battier was tremendous - offensively and defensively.

I love his effort, night in and night out. He can play for me any day. Shane Battier is a pro.

Wow there is a lot of love in the room tonight. Where was the love for the last 2 loses? Battier played a combined 77 minutes for a grand total of 12 pts and 9 reb 10 assists and 2 stl. For the season Battier only avg 7.3 pts a game, I'll pass. I'm not saying he isn't a decent player but that he just an average player.

In terms of fantasy basketball, you're absolutely correct. In regards to actual basketball, you're completely wrong.

[Cman]

Odom's meltdown, courtesy Battier:

Odom was injured when he drove into the lane and collided with Shane Battier and landed hard on the court.

He remained face down for about a minute writhing in pain before slowly rising to his knees, getting up and making his way down the court. He was called for a charge and was given a technical after jawing with an official over the call

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AmZRoleg9gHEEZ59lj53gq.8vLYF?slug=ap-lakers-odomout&prov=ap&type=lgns

Let me second, third, fourth, or whatever it is now that I too would love Battier on the Cs.

[ToppersBsktball10]

i wanna hug artest whenever he gets in kobe's face. i feel like brooks, artest, and battier are honorary celtics while the rockets-lakers series is happening BEAT LA!

[CoachBo]

Don't know if any of you watched the Rockets open a can on the Lakers this afternoon, but Battier was tremendous - offensively and defensively.

I love his effort, night in and night out. He can play for me any day. Shane Battier is a pro.

Wow there is a lot of love in the room tonight. Where was the love for the last 2 loses? Battier played a combined 77 minutes for a grand total of 12 pts and 9 reb 10 assists and 2 stl. For the season Battier only avg 7.3 pts a game, I'll pass. I'm not saying he isn't a decent player but that he just an average player.

In terms of fantasy basketball, you're absolutely correct. In regards to actual basketball, you're completely wrong.

Good post. It never ceases to amaze me how many people think basketball can be metrically measured.

[PosImpos]

Battier is a guy of intangibles.  He's not going to give you great numbers, but he improves his team's defense and lowers the ability of other players (particularly greats like Kobe, LeBron etc) to score.  He's a guy who you put on the other team's star and he usually does a pretty good job of giving them a really hard time.  He's a defensive specialist.

[EvilEmpire]

Don't know if any of you watched the Rockets open a can on the Lakers this afternoon, but Battier was tremendous - offensively and defensively.

I love his effort, night in and night out. He can play for me any day. Shane Battier is a pro.

Wow there is a lot of love in the room tonight. Where was the love for the last 2 loses? Battier played a combined 77 minutes for a grand total of 12 pts and 9 reb 10 assists and 2 stl. For the season Battier only avg 7.3 pts a game, I'll pass. I'm not saying he isn't a decent player but that he just an average player.

In terms of fantasy basketball, you're absolutely correct. In regards to actual basketball, you're completely wrong.

Good post. It never ceases to amaze me how many people think basketball can be metrically measured.

Hey great post. I'm sorry I have metrics to back up what I'm talking about and you have, mmmmm, just what you think. Battier is an average player. He is not a scoring threat and because of that the man that is guarding him can help out on others. Hence he actually become a liability on offense. He has not affected Kobe at all with his "great defense". In the playoffs Battier is averaging 9 pt 5 reb and 2.5 assists. When your a great player and you play a sub-par opponent your suppose to be able to see those difference, yet against Portland and there crappy SF's Battier scored 7,3,16,14,4,7 pts per game respectively all the while averaging over 36 min per game. Maybe he really comes through in games they win like the game 1 win against the Lakers and I'm under estimating how important his 6 pts and 3 reb and 1 assist in 39 min of play are. I rest my case. Rebuttal?

[kheeko]

Ive always like Shane classy dude, right up there with Ray.

[PosImpos]

Don't know if any of you watched the Rockets open a can on the Lakers this afternoon, but Battier was tremendous - offensively and defensively.

I love his effort, night in and night out. He can play for me any day. Shane Battier is a pro.

Wow there is a lot of love in the room tonight. Where was the love for the last 2 loses? Battier played a combined 77 minutes for a grand total of 12 pts and 9 reb 10 assists and 2 stl. For the season Battier only avg 7.3 pts a game, I'll pass. I'm not saying he isn't a decent player but that he just an average player.

In terms of fantasy basketball, you're absolutely correct. In regards to actual basketball, you're completely wrong.

Good post. It never ceases to amaze me how many people think basketball can be metrically measured.

Hey great post. I'm sorry I have metrics to back up what I'm talking about and you have, mmmmm, just what you think. Battier is an average player. He is not a scoring threat and because of that the man that is guarding him can help out on others. Hence he actually become a liability on offense. He has not affected Kobe at all with his "great defense". In the playoffs Battier is averaging 9 pt 5 reb and 2.5 assists. When your a great player and you play a sub-par opponent your suppose to be able to see those difference, yet against Portland and there crappy SF's Battier scored 7,3,16,14,4,7 pts per game respectively all the while averaging over 36 min per game. Maybe he really comes through in games they win like the game 1 win against the Lakers and I'm under estimating how important his 6 pts and 3 reb and 1 assist in 39 min of play are. I rest my case. Rebuttal?

You have to look at his on / off court numbers.  If I'm not mistaken his team tends to do significantly better defensively when he's on the floor.  He also often gives opposing stars a much more difficult time shooting.  Is he going to completely shut down Kobe?  Obviously not.  Kobe's going to score when he wants to score whether you like it or not.  But Shane can make sure he has to take a lot more shots and try a lot harder than he normally would, which can make a large impact.

[cordobes]

Don't know if any of you watched the Rockets open a can on the Lakers this afternoon, but Battier was tremendous - offensively and defensively.

I love his effort, night in and night out. He can play for me any day. Shane Battier is a pro.

Wow there is a lot of love in the room tonight. Where was the love for the last 2 loses? Battier played a combined 77 minutes for a grand total of 12 pts and 9 reb 10 assists and 2 stl. For the season Battier only avg 7.3 pts a game, I'll pass. I'm not saying he isn't a decent player but that he just an average player.

In terms of fantasy basketball, you're absolutely correct. In regards to actual basketball, you're completely wrong.

Good post. It never ceases to amaze me how many people think basketball can be metrically measured.

Hey great post. I'm sorry I have metrics to back up what I'm talking about and you have, mmmmm, just what you think. Battier is an average player. He is not a scoring threat and because of that the man that is guarding him can help out on others. Hence he actually become a liability on offense. He has not affected Kobe at all with his "great defense". In the playoffs Battier is averaging 9 pt 5 reb and 2.5 assists. When your a great player and you play a sub-par opponent your suppose to be able to see those difference, yet against Portland and there crappy SF's Battier scored 7,3,16,14,4,7 pts per game respectively all the while averaging over 36 min per game. Maybe he really comes through in games they win like the game 1 win against the Lakers and I'm under estimating how important his 6 pts and 3 reb and 1 assist in 39 min of play are. I rest my case. Rebuttal?

1. Battier is not a scoring threat because he's not supposed to be one. There are more about basketball than scoring. Battier plays a role and a very valuable one for a winning team - nobody is calling him All-NBA material, just that he excels playing that role. On the other hand, you're very far from the truth when you say that "the man that is guarding him can help out on others" and "he actually become a liability on offense". How exactly can you sag off of a 39% 3PT shooter? I mean, you can, but giving open looks to Shane Battier is not a wise thing to do. He'll knock them down more often than not. You don't have to be a scoring threat to force defenders to stay home with you; mastering the outside open shot is another way of doing it. Besides that, Battier is an under-rated offensive player: he's very intelligent, he knows the right spots to be, he's a good screener, he makes good passes and, most importantly, he'll rarely turnover the ball or take a bad shot. He's as mistaken-free as they come, and that's also very important.

2. Defensively, it's just a matter of watching him play, I guess. It looks like you've only started watching Battier in this series, but he's reputation as a defender it's well deserved.

3. And if you really need the metrics, some advanced statistical metrics usually rate Battier very high. I'd strongly advise you to read this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=shane%20battier&st=cse

It's a great read.

Yeah, Battier won't score a lot; he's a low usage but very efficient player. But perhaps you should consider that you're over-rating scoring a little bit.

[CoachBo]

Chuckle. As always, Cordobes, a good explanation of Battier's value to a team. TP.

Rondo is a pretty good example in this discussion: He's scored quite well, rebounded quite well ... and hurt this club repeatedly in the playoffs with his refusal to move the basketball off the dribble and create, two skills which are difficult to measure metrically. His scoring is, quite frankly, fool's gold if you're measuring the quality of his play in the playoffs, as it will produce a much higher evaluation than Rondo actually deserves pounding the basketball at the top of the key and losing his man, triggering a set of rotations that has yielded too many open Orlando shots.

I know the sabremetricians think they've cornered the market on evaluating players, but they just haven't. And in basketball, they cannot. There are stats that I use as I evaluate my teams, but to base an entire evaluation on them is lazy coaching.

I seem to recall several fans of the digit last summer using them to proclaim how Tony Allen would more than replace James Posey on the Celtics' roster. How's that one working out?

As for Battier, you cannot accurately measure effort and basketball intelligence with a metric. He'd be a perfect fit on this basketball team. Instead, we've got Tony Allen ...

[wiley]

Chuckle. As always, Cordobes, a good explanation of Battier's value to a team. TP.

Rondo is a pretty good example in this discussion: He's scored quite well, rebounded quite well ... and hurt this club repeatedly in the playoffs with his refusal to move the basketball off the dribble and create, two skills which are difficult to measure metrically. His scoring is, quite frankly, fool's gold if you're measuring the quality of his play in the playoffs, as it will produce a much higher evaluation than Rondo actually deserves pounding the basketball at the top of the key and losing his man, triggering a set of rotations that has yielded too many open Orlando shots.

I know the sabremetricians think they've cornered the market on evaluating players, but they just haven't. And in basketball, they cannot. There are stats that I use as I evaluate my teams, but to base an entire evaluation on them is lazy coaching.

I seem to recall several fans of the digit last summer using them to proclaim how Tony Allen would more than replace James Posey on the Celtics' roster. How's that one working out?

As for Battier, you cannot accurately measure effort and basketball intelligence with a metric. He'd be a perfect fit on this basketball team. Instead, we've got Tony Allen ...

I love Shane Battier too and wouldn't it be nice to make him a Celtic.

But I wouldn't trade Rondo to get him and I doubt you would either.  Rondo has been nailed for his lack of stats most of his career by basketball insiders and outsiders and all kinds of people.  His supporters had to discuss his intangibles in order to balance the argument.  Now he's got the stats, equaling Bird's record for triple doubles in a post-season, and you're attacking his intangibles.  I'm not saying your criticisms are wrong, but I hope you're not attaching your criticisms to Rondo's value as a player or to this team...That would be wrong, no?

[EvilEmpire]

Don't know if any of you watched the Rockets open a can on the Lakers this afternoon, but Battier was tremendous - offensively and defensively.

I love his effort, night in and night out. He can play for me any day. Shane Battier is a pro.

Wow there is a lot of love in the room tonight. Where was the love for the last 2 loses? Battier played a combined 77 minutes for a grand total of 12 pts and 9 reb 10 assists and 2 stl. For the season Battier only avg 7.3 pts a game, I'll pass. I'm not saying he isn't a decent player but that he just an average player.

In terms of fantasy basketball, you're absolutely correct. In regards to actual basketball, you're completely wrong.

Good post. It never ceases to amaze me how many people think basketball can be metrically measured.

Hey great post. I'm sorry I have metrics to back up what I'm talking about and you have, mmmmm, just what you think. Battier is an average player. He is not a scoring threat and because of that the man that is guarding him can help out on others. Hence he actually become a liability on offense. He has not affected Kobe at all with his "great defense". In the playoffs Battier is averaging 9 pt 5 reb and 2.5 assists. When your a great player and you play a sub-par opponent your suppose to be able to see those difference, yet against Portland and there crappy SF's Battier scored 7,3,16,14,4,7 pts per game respectively all the while averaging over 36 min per game. Maybe he really comes through in games they win like the game 1 win against the Lakers and I'm under estimating how important his 6 pts and 3 reb and 1 assist in 39 min of play are. I rest my case. Rebuttal?

1. Battier is not a scoring threat because he's not supposed to be one. There are more about basketball than scoring. Battier plays a role and a very valuable one for a winning team - nobody is calling him All-NBA material, just that he excels playing that role. On the other hand, you're very far from the truth when you say that "the man that is guarding him can help out on others" and "he actually become a liability on offense". How exactly can you sag off of a 39% 3PT shooter? I mean, you can, but giving open looks to Shane Battier is not a wise thing to do. He'll knock them down more often than not. You don't have to be a scoring threat to force defenders to stay home with you; mastering the outside open shot is another way of doing it. Besides that, Battier is an under-rated offensive player: he's very intelligent, he knows the right spots to be, he's a good screener, he makes good passes and, most importantly, he'll rarely turnover the ball or take a bad shot. He's as mistaken-free as they come, and that's also very important.

2. Defensively, it's just a matter of watching him play, I guess. It looks like you've only started watching Battier in this series, but he's reputation as a defender it's well deserved.

3. And if you really need the metrics, some advanced statistical metrics usually rate Battier very high. I'd strongly advise you to read this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=shane%20battier&st=cse

It's a great read.

Yeah, Battier won't score a lot; he's a low usage but very efficient player. But perhaps you should consider that you're over-rating scoring a little bit.

Before you go eating up everything someone puts in print you should do a little research.
http://www.citypaper.net/blogs/clog/2009/02/18/did-that-times-piece-about-shane-battier-actually-suck/


Shane Battier plays SF and in the NBA thats is not a defensive position. His lackluster performance tonight again showcased my point. If it takes Battier 30 mins to get 5 pts in a playoff game the Rockets need him to bring his A game, I hope he never comes to the Celtics. You guys need to go back and read my first post. You act like I said Battier sucks or something. I just said he was average. For a great defensive player no one around here got up on there soap box and started banging there pots until he score 24.

CoachBo what the hell are you talking about. Rondo is the only reason we are still in the playoffs. Fools gold? If you listen the players on the team, like the interview with PP after game 4 he said that Rondo was the leader of the team and that they feed off his energy. Maybe you should listen and research before you try judging Rondo.

[EvilEmpire]

Cordobes, make sure you read the link I posted as well as http://talkingpointfreesports.com/article.aspx?s=3000&su=0&a=101250&t=Lies%2c_[dang]ed_Lies%2c_and_Obama

[RockinRyA]

SF not a defensive position? its now apparent you know little things. james posey, ron artest,bruce bowen. does these names ring a bell?

about rondo? yeah i agree its fools gold. he isnt playing the way he was playing in chi. hes getting the stats but thats it. if you actually watched the game rather than the box score you would know. there are lots of things than bare stats.