Author Topic: Dwight Howard/Goaltending  (Read 9544 times)

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Re: Dwight Howard/Goaltending
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2009, 05:40:49 PM »

Offline PierceMVP08

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His block on Stephon I do believe was on it's way down but aside from that, they all just seemed like awsome blocks in my opinion.

I agree.  At first glance some seemed like they might have been goaltending, but after seeing the replays I couldn't help but admit they were amazing plays.  He seemed to get them just at the peak of their ascent but JUST before they came down.  Really amazing actually.

Re: Dwight Howard/Goaltending
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2009, 05:42:31 PM »

Offline RAcker

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I think they definitely missed two last night on Steph and BBD's shots.  Okay, we still lose in humiliating fashion if we get those 4 points back.  

What drives me crazy is that we look intimidated going in there with him around.  Rondo misses floaters badly, BBD misses point blank layups expecting to get swatted, Pierec and Ray look to pass a foot from the basket most of the time, etc.  If he blocks it he blocks it, so what.  Go to finish strong.  He tries to block everything guys.  This should lead to open dunks for big men and lots of fouls if we use a little something known as a pump fake.

Re: Dwight Howard/Goaltending
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2009, 06:01:17 PM »

Offline yagru

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its not a conspiracy theory.. the nba needs superstars and superstar plays to keep the fair weather fan interested.. its all marketing & entertainment factor.. this isnt a complaint about last nights game but just a pretty obvious observation of the way the league works

if the refs start realing in these superstars then its not going to be as marketeable to the mainstream

Re: Dwight Howard/Goaltending
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2009, 06:03:33 PM »

Offline Scribbles

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I am confident that refs are contunually missing goaltending calls on Howard...At least 3 of them last night and throughout the series as a whole. He rarely actually blocks the ball on the way up on help D...Straight up D his blocks however are usually legit. It just seems that refs for whatever reason have trouble judging goaltending of a few players in the league howard...Amare are  players whose names first come to mind.

I have a suggestion: Don't think of it as a missed judgement but a blatant noncall because of who he is and the NBA's want to make more $$$$$

i second that

Come on guys, are you serious?  This conspiracy stuff is ridiculous?  Do you really think that that really is going on in the refs head?  How does letting Howard get away with goaltending make the NBA more money?  The way to get more viewers to keep the game close, and to give the magic an unfair advantage would allow them to blow the Celts out by more.  If anything the NBA would want the Celtics to advance because they will draw better ratings than the magic.  Dwight Howard isn't a big start to the casual fan and the Celtics team would draw better ratings than Howard.  If there are any teams that should not worry about conspiracies going against them are the Celtics, Lakers, and at this point the Cavs.

I disagree about Howard not appealing to the causal fan.  He set a record with over 3 million all star votes this season.  So that's a really weak argument on your part.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/allstar2009/news/story?id=3853409

He does goaltend A LOT and they don't call many of them.  I agree with RAcker, throw a pump fake at they guy he'll fall for it almost every time.  

Re: Dwight Howard/Goaltending
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2009, 06:26:18 PM »

Offline PierceMVP08

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Quote

I disagree about Howard not appealing to the causal fan.  He set a record with over 3 million all star votes this season.  So that's a really weak argument on your part.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/allstar2009/news/story?id=3853409

He does goaltend A LOT and they don't call many of them.  I agree with RAcker, throw a pump fake at they guy he'll fall for it almost every time.  

Tell me, who else do people have to vote for at Center in the east?  Those votes are clearly inflated.  Simply talking to the common person, you mention Dwight Howard and he doesn't have that name recognition that you say he does.

Re: Dwight Howard/Goaltending
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2009, 06:30:52 PM »

Offline Scribbles

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Quote

I disagree about Howard not appealing to the causal fan.  He set a record with over 3 million all star votes this season.  So that's a really weak argument on your part.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/allstar2009/news/story?id=3853409

He does goaltend A LOT and they don't call many of them.  I agree with RAcker, throw a pump fake at they guy he'll fall for it almost every time.  

Tell me, who else do people have to vote for at Center in the east?  Those votes are clearly inflated.  Simply talking to the common person, you mention Dwight Howard and he doesn't have that name recognition that you say he does.

Yeah those numbers are inflated  ::)  First time in history a player gets over 3 million votes.  Think about it, Yao has 2 huge countries voting for him and he had less votes by almost a million and Yao, Shaq, and Gasol are really the only centers out west since Duncan is listed as a Forward. 

Re: Dwight Howard/Goaltending
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2009, 06:38:59 PM »

Offline PierceMVP08

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Quote

I disagree about Howard not appealing to the causal fan.  He set a record with over 3 million all star votes this season.  So that's a really weak argument on your part.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/allstar2009/news/story?id=3853409

He does goaltend A LOT and they don't call many of them.  I agree with RAcker, throw a pump fake at they guy he'll fall for it almost every time.  

Tell me, who else do people have to vote for at Center in the east?  Those votes are clearly inflated.  Simply talking to the common person, you mention Dwight Howard and he doesn't have that name recognition that you say he does.

Yeah those numbers are inflated  ::)  First time in history a player gets over 3 million votes.  Think about it, Yao has 2 huge countries voting for him and he had less votes by almost a million and Yao, Shaq, and Gasol are really the only centers out west since Duncan is listed as a Forward. 

How bout listing who in the east takes votes away from Howard? Shaq can still draw votes and you forget Pau plays for the most popular team in the league and has spain voting for him as well.

If you want stats that are more indicative of his marketability (yes that means people spending money rather than just filling out a paper) look at Jersey sales from the last two years.

2008: http://www.cnbc.com/id/22663891

Dwight Howard is 14

Top 15 Jerseys:
1. Kevin Garnett
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Allen Iverson
4. LeBron James
5. Steve Nash
6. Dwyane Wade
7. Gilbert Arenas
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Stephon Marbury
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Kevin Durant
12. Paul Pierce
13. Tracy McGrady
14. Dwight Howard
15. Chris Paul

As for this year, 2009: http://www.nba.com/2009/news/04/30/jersey.leaders.2009/index.html?rss=true

Dwight Howard is 10

Top 15 Most Popular Jerseys
1.    Kobe Bryant (Lakers)
2.    LeBron James (Cavaliers)
3.    Chris Paul (Hornets)
4.    Kevin Garnett (Celtics)
5.    Allen Iverson (Pistons)
6.    Dwyane Wade (Heat)
7.    Paul Pierce (Celtics)
8.    Nate Robinson (Knicks)
9.    Pau Gasol (Lakers)
10.    Dwight Howard (Magic)
11.    Derrick Rose (Bulls)
12.    Ray Allen (Celtics)
13.    Steve Nash (Suns)
14.    Shaquille O'Neal (Suns)
15.    Carmelo Anthony (Nuggets)

Good old Paul Pierce and Keving Garnett are ahead of him both years.  Don't you think they should be getting the favorable calls according to your logic.  Oh, wait.  It doesn't apply to the Celtics because the league is out to get us.  ::)

Re: Dwight Howard/Goaltending
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2009, 06:46:16 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Quote

I disagree about Howard not appealing to the causal fan.  He set a record with over 3 million all star votes this season.  So that's a really weak argument on your part.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/allstar2009/news/story?id=3853409

He does goaltend A LOT and they don't call many of them.  I agree with RAcker, throw a pump fake at they guy he'll fall for it almost every time.  

Tell me, who else do people have to vote for at Center in the east?  Those votes are clearly inflated.  Simply talking to the common person, you mention Dwight Howard and he doesn't have that name recognition that you say he does.

Yeah those numbers are inflated  ::)  First time in history a player gets over 3 million votes.  Think about it, Yao has 2 huge countries voting for him and he had less votes by almost a million and Yao, Shaq, and Gasol are really the only centers out west since Duncan is listed as a Forward. 

How bout listing who in the east takes votes away from Howard? Shaq can still draw votes and you forget Pau plays for the most popular team in the league and has spain voting for him as well.

If you want stats that are more indicative of his marketability (yes that means people spending money rather than just filling out a paper) look at Jersey sales from the last two years.

2008: http://www.cnbc.com/id/22663891

Dwight Howard is 14

Top 15 Jerseys:
1. Kevin Garnett
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Allen Iverson
4. LeBron James
5. Steve Nash
6. Dwyane Wade
7. Gilbert Arenas
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Stephon Marbury
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Kevin Durant
12. Paul Pierce
13. Tracy McGrady
14. Dwight Howard
15. Chris Paul

As for this year, 2009: http://www.nba.com/2009/news/04/30/jersey.leaders.2009/index.html?rss=true

Dwight Howard is 10

Top 15 Most Popular Jerseys
1.    Kobe Bryant (Lakers)
2.    LeBron James (Cavaliers)
3.    Chris Paul (Hornets)
4.    Kevin Garnett (Celtics)
5.    Allen Iverson (Pistons)
6.    Dwyane Wade (Heat)
7.    Paul Pierce (Celtics)
8.    Nate Robinson (Knicks)
9.    Pau Gasol (Lakers)
10.    Dwight Howard (Magic)
11.    Derrick Rose (Bulls)
12.    Ray Allen (Celtics)
13.    Steve Nash (Suns)
14.    Shaquille O'Neal (Suns)
15.    Carmelo Anthony (Nuggets)

Good old Paul Pierce and Keving Garnett are ahead of him both years.  Don't you think they should be getting the favorable calls according to your logic.  Oh, wait.  It doesn't apply to the Celtics because the league is out to get us.  ::)

While I agree that no one is really out to get us, I do think the Magic got all of the calls last night- especially in the first half. I mean, the Celtics definitely played timidly, but the refs didn't help...

Re: Dwight Howard/Goaltending
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2009, 06:59:12 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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Quote

I disagree about Howard not appealing to the causal fan.  He set a record with over 3 million all star votes this season.  So that's a really weak argument on your part.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/allstar2009/news/story?id=3853409

He does goaltend A LOT and they don't call many of them.  I agree with RAcker, throw a pump fake at they guy he'll fall for it almost every time.  

Tell me, who else do people have to vote for at Center in the east?  Those votes are clearly inflated.  Simply talking to the common person, you mention Dwight Howard and he doesn't have that name recognition that you say he does.

Yeah those numbers are inflated  ::)  First time in history a player gets over 3 million votes.  Think about it, Yao has 2 huge countries voting for him and he had less votes by almost a million and Yao, Shaq, and Gasol are really the only centers out west since Duncan is listed as a Forward. 

How bout listing who in the east takes votes away from Howard? Shaq can still draw votes and you forget Pau plays for the most popular team in the league and has spain voting for him as well.

If you want stats that are more indicative of his marketability (yes that means people spending money rather than just filling out a paper) look at Jersey sales from the last two years.

2008: http://www.cnbc.com/id/22663891

Dwight Howard is 14

Top 15 Jerseys:
1. Kevin Garnett
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Allen Iverson
4. LeBron James
5. Steve Nash
6. Dwyane Wade
7. Gilbert Arenas
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Stephon Marbury
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Kevin Durant
12. Paul Pierce
13. Tracy McGrady
14. Dwight Howard
15. Chris Paul

As for this year, 2009: http://www.nba.com/2009/news/04/30/jersey.leaders.2009/index.html?rss=true

Dwight Howard is 10

Top 15 Most Popular Jerseys
1.    Kobe Bryant (Lakers)
2.    LeBron James (Cavaliers)
3.    Chris Paul (Hornets)
4.    Kevin Garnett (Celtics)
5.    Allen Iverson (Pistons)
6.    Dwyane Wade (Heat)
7.    Paul Pierce (Celtics)
8.    Nate Robinson (Knicks)
9.    Pau Gasol (Lakers)
10.    Dwight Howard (Magic)
11.    Derrick Rose (Bulls)
12.    Ray Allen (Celtics)
13.    Steve Nash (Suns)
14.    Shaquille O'Neal (Suns)
15.    Carmelo Anthony (Nuggets)

Good old Paul Pierce and Keving Garnett are ahead of him both years.  Don't you think they should be getting the favorable calls according to your logic.  Oh, wait.  It doesn't apply to the Celtics because the league is out to get us.  ::)

Why cannot someone simply say the reffing in this league is horrible at best w/o being labled a conspiracy theorist? Nobody is saying the league is out to get us, we who believe something needs to be done just want there to be comsistency between all players and not tiered. With technology the nba can clean this up a lot, but they dont because stern likes the superstar to look better than they already are. He is allowing freat players to look greater than they are.

This a great sport to get into, and it could have many more fans if it cleaned its image up. It needs to get looked at as a legit sport again to the casual fan.
Back to wanting Joe fired.

Re: Dwight Howard/Goaltending
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2009, 07:37:12 PM »

Offline chicagogreen

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My problem is this.  We all know that if the defender uses the rim, or touches it all, that is a goaltend.  But I thought that the backoard was the same thing.  He constantly puts his off hand on the backboard, isn't that illegal as well?


Re: Dwight Howard/Goaltending
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2009, 07:41:37 PM »

Offline cordobes

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I've watched all those replays during the game and it wasn't enough to make up my mind. It could go either way, I guess.

Re: Dwight Howard/Goaltending
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2009, 09:16:26 PM »

Offline threats13

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i love the NBA more than i love the college game but id like to say that the colelge game is a lot more "realistic".  I use the word realistic because there is no over the top marketing schemes, new players come in and out of the league thus making sure that one guy doesnt get too much attention.  Kobes been getting attention since day 1, lebron same deal.  I think thats where the problem starts.  These guys come into the league already superstars without doing a single thing.  Lets take a look at the NFL Matt Staffor 42 mil guaranteed and he didnt throw a pass yet.  If he doesnt playa single game over the next 6 years he gets paid 42 million.  Lebron before he took a single NBA jumpshot was signed by Nike and was making a ton of money.  These guys are marketed to the extreme and its no help that the refs have to be impartial with people they arent personally impartial about.  They have favorite players too ya know they are human.

My main gripe comes with the NBA ownership and management.  They dont do anything to put everyone on the same playing field.  Lebron does the crab dribble and its ok wre just going to change the rule.  ARE YOU KIDDING?!?! That right there is enough to make me want to never watch another NBA game.  If you dont think that the NBA is reaching out to help certain players reach greater plateaus then you are quite ignorant.  Theres a reason the NBA highlights these guys names on TNT thursday nights during ther egular season.  Theyre making you fall in love with them forcefeeding you the players they want to succeed.  Hell even the announcers are in on it.  I can barely understand JVG and Mark Jackson when they do Cavs or Lakers games because they have Lebron and Kobe's you know what shoved down their throat.

ok end of rant
The NBA..where "this whole sport is a business and the referees decide games and David Stern is a snake and is only in this for the money" happens.

Re: Dwight Howard/Goaltending
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2009, 09:26:27 PM »

Offline PierceMVP08

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i love the NBA more than i love the college game but id like to say that the colelge game is a lot more "realistic".  I use the word realistic because there is no over the top marketing schemes, new players come in and out of the league thus making sure that one guy doesnt get too much attention.  Kobes been getting attention since day 1, lebron same deal.  I think thats where the problem starts.  These guys come into the league already superstars without doing a single thing.  Lets take a look at the NFL Matt Staffor 42 mil guaranteed and he didnt throw a pass yet.  If he doesnt playa single game over the next 6 years he gets paid 42 million.  Lebron before he took a single NBA jumpshot was signed by Nike and was making a ton of money.  These guys are marketed to the extreme and its no help that the refs have to be impartial with people they arent personally impartial about.  They have favorite players too ya know they are human.

My main gripe comes with the NBA ownership and management.  They dont do anything to put everyone on the same playing field.  Lebron does the crab dribble and its ok wre just going to change the rule.  ARE YOU KIDDING?!?! That right there is enough to make me want to never watch another NBA game.  If you dont think that the NBA is reaching out to help certain players reach greater plateaus then you are quite ignorant.  Theres a reason the NBA highlights these guys names on TNT thursday nights during ther egular season.  Theyre making you fall in love with them forcefeeding you the players they want to succeed.  Hell even the announcers are in on it.  I can barely understand JVG and Mark Jackson when they do Cavs or Lakers games because they have Lebron and Kobe's you know what shoved down their throat.

ok end of rant

First of all, I did not call anybody ignorant, so there is no need to result to that.  I think those who believe you are ignorant.  You're point is moot.  Yeah, there are biases in the officials.  It's human nature.  I don't think that they're out to get us.  They're not fixing games.  It all depends on your bias. Imagine paul pierce was on the opposing team. Wouldnt you get furious that whenever he goes to the hole, like in the third quarter last night, he either scores or gets fouled.  The problem is he doesn't do it enough.  Part of the reason start players get the calls so much is that they have the ball in their hand so much.

Yeah, officiating could be improved but its also harder than any other sport to officiate.  Its not fair to compare these guys to other refs.  For example goaltending, they have to determine if the ball is at it peak or on the way down in a split second.  Where else do refs have to do that?  If you think about it, every team in the playoffs has their star who will get "star" calls, but in the end they balance out.  Except for some close games, refs don't decide the outcome of the game.  In no way did the refs decide last nights game, it was the celts lack of effor and intelligence.

Re: Dwight Howard/Goaltending
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2009, 09:29:06 PM »

Offline PierceMVP08

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My problem is this.  We all know that if the defender uses the rim, or touches it all, that is a goaltend.  But I thought that the backoard was the same thing.  He constantly puts his off hand on the backboard, isn't that illegal as well?



I agree with this.  I know that is the rule in high school for instance, but i don't know if it is the same in the NBA.  If it is, it is clear cut that it is goaltending and it should be called.  If not, those blocks are hard to tell whether they were legit or not.

Re: Dwight Howard/Goaltending
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2009, 09:33:41 PM »

Offline threats13

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i wasnt callin u ignorant i was calling people as a whole that might believe there is no slant at all ignorant.  Nor did i say anything about the refs being out to get us. Nor did i say anything about the refs deciding that game against us.  I agree with the person that says Pierece gets star calls.  Although i see him getting a ton less this year than last year.  If you dont wanna believe that Celtics Lakers was more or less set up and you dont wanna beleive that Lakers Cavs is set up thats your own choice.  But the league has been doin this for years.  76ers Lakers finals a few years back was about as set up a finals as there has ever been.  Coincidence that Celtics get real good..then Jerry West GM of the Grizz trades Pau Gasol for a 2nd rounder and BAM! we got a Celtics Lakers finals.  Wow now that is impressive.  One of the greatest Lakers of all time trades his best player for a 2nd round pick to his former team.  Now that is just gorgeous.  Sorry but no1 is going to change my mind about this league.  It is a huge scam and whether its the refs fault or ownerships fault i dont care but something needs to be done because its becoming a ton more obvious.  
The NBA..where "this whole sport is a business and the referees decide games and David Stern is a snake and is only in this for the money" happens.