Author Topic: Alston Suspended (merged threads, suspension on page 9)  (Read 37262 times)

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Re: Alston Suspended (merged threads, suspension on page 9)
« Reply #150 on: May 07, 2009, 07:10:24 PM »

Offline johnnyrondo

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Like I predicted yesterday. Rafer "skip to Game 4" Alston  :P

Re: Alston
« Reply #151 on: May 07, 2009, 07:40:16 PM »

Offline ChainSmokingLikeDino

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I don't think that stuff belongs on the playground

I don't know. On the court, it doesn't belong.

Quote
I don't think the "ghetto" comment belongs on CelticsBlog.

Huh? Why?

TP for Section 87.

Why? Cause it is ridiculous stereotyping. Do you really have no clue as to the insinuations of that comment, or do you want it spelled out?

As I said in a post on the main page to someone who claimed Alston will always be "a street baller, not a champion", tell Earl Monroe that being a street ball player and a world champion are mutually exclusive.

Geez. I wasn't thinking about racial issues and stuff like that while writing that. I'm an European. There was no derogatory intent on my statement. And no insinuation whatsoever. Ghettos have been around well before the foundation of the US. Lighten up. Case closed.

I'm all for letting sleeping dogs lie and all but would just point out people in the US are aware of history outside the US, aware that the term ghetto originated with the area Jews were forced to live in Venice, etc. etc. But there is a lot of talk in discussing the NBA that uses words like "ghetto", "thug", "punk" as coded ways of implying all sorts of unsavory thoughts about race, class, etc. I think the average American when told something "belongs in the ghetto" doesn't view it as innocuous. To continue rambling I would say I find much of the discussions of basketball culture to dip its toes into some fairly insulting and skewed views of American society. This is not directed at you, merely explaining why some would react to your comments in the way they did. If I may ask, and this is out of interest given your explanation (not as baiting or chastising) what does saying a play "belongs in the ghetto" then intend to convey? (perhaps this is not the place for this discussion, oh well).

Finally, just as the opportunity presents itself, a fascinating book that deals with these issues: http://www.amazon.com/Black-Planet-Facing-during-Season/dp/0803293542/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241739530&sr=8-1

Thankfully Freedarko exists for good conversations on NBA and style, culture, etc.

Re: Alston Suspended (merged threads, suspension on page 9)
« Reply #152 on: May 07, 2009, 07:52:26 PM »

Offline cordobes

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I think the average American when told something "belongs in the ghetto" doesn't view it as innocuous.

Then I suppose the average American needs to be less sensitive and stop seeing in every idiomatic expression an insult to communities or groups of individuals.

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If I may ask, and this is out of interest given your explanation (not as baiting or chastising) what does saying a play "belongs in the ghetto" then intend to convey?

A vicious play, proper of a ruffian. The expression is generally associated with low-class things, so there's from where the analogy steams from.

And this is the ghetto-related book I'd recommend: http://www.amazon.com/Those-I-Loved-Signet/dp/0451069420

Quote
perhaps this is not the place for this discussion

Yeah, I don't think it does. Feel free to write the last word here but after that let's carry on via PM, if needed.

Re: Alston
« Reply #153 on: May 07, 2009, 08:10:42 PM »

Offline Section 87

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Geez. I wasn't thinking about racial issues and stuff like that while writing that. I'm an European. There was no derogatory intent on my statement. And no insinuation whatsoever.
OK, fair enough. Things can be taken in differently different contexts (and different continents), and if no harm was meant, maybe my comment was too harsh.

Ghettos have been around well before the foundation of the US. Lighten up. Case closed.
Closed, hardly. Sure, there were ghettos in Europe long before the US existed. But this is a US-based blog about an American team in an American city in a North American league, and most of the members are obviously concentrated in the Boston area. So you should be aware of what "ghetto" means in modern US usage, and it's quite different from what it meant in Venice centuries ago.

Here in the US, it usually means a neighborhood in a city, where most of the residents are predominantly poor and Black. And in such neighborhoods, the economic and politial situation leads to land-use patterns that aren't conducive to a lot of the sports that are played at a high professional level, such as baseball, football (gridiron or soccer), or ice hockey. Basketball is common in American ghettos, and many NBA players grew up in ghettos.

There is a lot of terminology that is frequently used as commonly understood code words for racial stereotypes, and "ghetto" is very often used as a thinly-veiled racial slur. Other terms like street-baller and thug are only rarely used in reference to white players, and often there's intentional irony when they are so used. It's easy and all too common for players to be criticized in terms that imply that people who come from poor families or African ancestry behave badly because of their race or economic status.

The Celtics were despised by a great many Bostonians for years, as the first NBA team to draft a Black player, and the first NBA team to have a Black head coach. Black players were threatened and assaulted. In the 1980's, the Celtics were one of the "whitest" teams in the league, and a lot of people thought that was important and intentional. Some derided the team, others idolized them, for this real or imagined racial profiling. Racial relations are still a touchy issue, and there is a lot of history of tension in Boston and specifically with the Celtics. If you use loaded words that can be taken as racial slurs, it can exacerbate those tensions, even if you don't intend the words that way.

If you find that Americans sometimes say things that might be considered outrageous in Europe (which I think is the case), maybe that will help you understand what I'm talking about. I think it's good to understand the implications, and what may be inferred as racially insulting comments, even unintended. There is a lot of unpleasant history behind some of these issues and you can't simply dismiss them by saying that Americans should lighten up and stop seeing these issues. For many of us, these issues are real and in our faces on a daily basis. Pretending they don't matter is not going to make them go away.

Case still open.



Re: Alston Suspended (merged threads, suspension on page 9)
« Reply #154 on: May 07, 2009, 08:14:22 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Enough with the discussion of race, etc., in this thread.  If people want to discuss race in an intelligent matter, they may do so in the Current Events forum.  Otherwise, please stay on topic in this thread.

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Re: Alston Suspended (merged threads, suspension on page 9)
« Reply #155 on: May 07, 2009, 08:22:13 PM »

Offline RAcker

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Has anyone heard from Ron Jeremy? 

I bet he is ready to explode.   :-\

Re: Alston Suspended (merged threads)
« Reply #156 on: May 07, 2009, 09:27:06 PM »

Offline cdif911

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anthony johnson could barely get the ball up vs rondo...i expect we see more hedo at the point and lee....boston def. has the advantage without alston...need to exploit this...time for pierce to bust loose

for our sake, I hope Hedo plays the point, that eliminates a shooter from their lineup more or less
When you love life, life loves you right back


Re: Alston Suspended (merged threads, suspension on page 9)
« Reply #157 on: May 07, 2009, 09:35:33 PM »

Offline Redz

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Yup

Re: Alston Suspended (merged threads, suspension on page 9)
« Reply #158 on: May 08, 2009, 08:04:40 AM »

Offline crownsy

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Boo no one taking me up on that 10 TP bet on page one, i could be rolling in em today.  :D

Be interesting to see how A.J and lee do defending rondo tonight. Rondo needs to come out aggressive right away, and marbury needs to keep attacking the lane for the 10-12 minutes rondo will be out.

Could be another big night for eddie and ray of those two exploit the opposing PG.
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Re: Alston Suspended (merged threads, suspension on page 9)
« Reply #159 on: May 08, 2009, 08:09:19 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Boo no one taking me up on that 10 TP bet on page one, i could be rolling in em today.  :D

Be interesting to see how A.J and lee do defending rondo tonight. Rondo needs to come out aggressive right away, and marbury needs to keep attacking the lane for the 10-12 minutes rondo will be out.

Could be another big night for eddie and ray of those two exploit the opposing PG.
We can definitely take advantage of their backup PGs. But they won't just roll over like they did in game 2. The Magic are going to come out angry and focused tonight.

Re: Alston Suspended (merged threads, suspension on page 9)
« Reply #160 on: May 08, 2009, 08:36:28 AM »

Offline crownsy

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Boo no one taking me up on that 10 TP bet on page one, i could be rolling in em today.  :D

Be interesting to see how A.J and lee do defending rondo tonight. Rondo needs to come out aggressive right away, and marbury needs to keep attacking the lane for the 10-12 minutes rondo will be out.

Could be another big night for eddie and ray of those two exploit the opposing PG.
We can definitely take advantage of their backup PGs. But they won't just roll over like they did in game 2. The Magic are going to come out angry and focused tonight.

for sure, but i just feel like since they are so shooting dependant, that if you can attack and put them on the defensive early, they tend to wilt.

shooting 3's is easier up 8 than down 8.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Alston Suspended (merged threads, suspension on page 9)
« Reply #161 on: May 08, 2009, 09:13:20 AM »

Offline Master Po

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Hobbs is weak sauce on this issue as are many of the rest of you. Technical foul - no suspension. No more Flagrant 1 or Flagrant 2's or weak crapola suspensions. Kobe got off the hook because his elbow to Artest was below the neck. Well so was the one that Ray Allen put in varejo's crotch but he got susupended. All these rules are the doorway to subjectivity filed witb personal biases that ruin the game. But I guess when the NBA is chomping at the bit for a Kobe-Lebron finals in which money reigns supreme you need all these rules to bend and twist and inconsistently apply to get you where you need to be in the finals. I still say some refs also have money on these games somewhere.

Mark Twain once said - get all your facts straight first, then you twist them all you want later on. Hobbs turned into weak sauce on me - never would have gussed it and this from a guy who had the handle "Ronnie Lott 2000 for awhile I think. .....Dude   ;)

Re: Alston Suspended (merged threads, suspension on page 9)
« Reply #162 on: May 08, 2009, 09:40:57 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Hobbs is weak sauce on this issue as are many of the rest of you.  . . . never would have gussed it and this from a guy who had the handle "Ronnie Lott 2000 for awhile I think. .....Dude   ;)

I disagree with many of the fouls that are called "flagrant" now, and I didn't have much of a problem with what Kobe or Fisher did.  That's physical play, and if things cross a line, start calling techs. 

However, I do think there's a difference with intentional blows to an opponent's head.  I think those cross a line, and I think they should result in ejections and/or suspensions.

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Re: Alston Suspended (merged threads, suspension on page 9)
« Reply #163 on: May 08, 2009, 09:48:56 AM »

Offline Jon Niednagel

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But I guess when the NBA is chomping at the bit for a Kobe-Lebron finals in which money reigns supreme you need all these rules to bend and twist and inconsistently apply to get you where you need to be in the finals.

I have actually been impressed with how "consistent" the league office has been with all these rulings. For as much flack as they get (usually justified) I think they have done a good job this post-season. The refs, on the other hand, have been up and down. I hope our players, and especially our bigs, realize the games are going to be called a lot tighter now with all these suspensions and they better adjust accordingly.
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Re: Alston Suspended (merged threads, suspension on page 9)
« Reply #164 on: May 08, 2009, 09:58:12 AM »

Offline crownsy

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Hobbs is weak sauce on this issue as are many of the rest of you. Technical foul - no suspension. No more Flagrant 1 or Flagrant 2's or weak crapola suspensions. Kobe got off the hook because his elbow to Artest was below the neck. Well so was the one that Ray Allen put in varejo's crotch but he got susupended. All these rules are the doorway to subjectivity filed witb personal biases that ruin the game. But I guess when the NBA is chomping at the bit for a Kobe-Lebron finals in which money reigns supreme you need all these rules to bend and twist and inconsistently apply to get you where you need to be in the finals. I still say some refs also have money on these games somewhere.

Mark Twain once said - get all your facts straight first, then you twist them all you want later on. Hobbs turned into weak sauce on me - never would have gussed it and this from a guy who had the handle "Ronnie Lott 2000 for awhile I think. .....Dude   ;)

Not once did anyone ever stop to ask me, hobbs, or any others who thought it was suspension worthy if we thought it was bad enough to warrent suspension under some sort of "man up" code.

But I knew the minute i saw it the NBA would suspend him, it was a no brainer under the current rules.
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