Get Tony Allen Off The Floor!

[Roy Hobbs]

There is hate here for Tony Allen that borders on the irrational.

I don't think there's hate here necessarily...I think the gist of it is that Tony Allen is not who we want on the floor in crunch time and for good reason. That said, It's not his fault alone that we lost the game for sure (although I do want to blame him and/or Doc for having him out there in the first place)

When Rondo plays scared, they lose. When Pierce turns the ball over in crunch time, they lose.

Now This, I completely agree with. I was aggravated with Tony on the floor but I was REALLY frustrated with Pierce. Not Rondo so much. I prefer for Rondo to run the offense than for Pierce to run the clock down and turn it over.

Are you new to the Celtics? That's Paul's signature play.

Except for when he's hitting clutch shots, winning us games, and being named Finals MVP.

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

Ok this is a serious question to prove a point.

Who do you think would affect game 7 more:

Tony Allen

or

KG in uniform but never enters the game

Discuss.

[fairweatherfan]

Ok this is a serious question to prove a point.

Who do you think would affect game 7 more:

Tony Allen

or

KG in uniform but never enters the game

Discuss.

I think the second scenario is impossible without some sort of restraining device to keep KG from checking himself in.  Overall I think TA affects it more, but probably not in a good way.

[RAcker]

To me, inserting Tony to offset their small lineup was a huge "poop in your own nest" move by Doc.  Horrible decision.  I yelled at the TV at the time I saw him enter the game and turns out I was right.  Those freakin' shots!!!!! Aaaaaaaaah!!!!!

We had a chance to go up 10 with about 2 1/2 minutes left and Rondo missed those FT's followed by the insertion of TA.  We end up in overtime.  Go figure.

[Chris]

To me, inserting Tony to offset their small lineup was a huge "poop in your own nest" move by Doc.  Horrible decision.  I yelled at the TV at the time I saw him enter the game and turns out I was right.  Those freakin' shots!!!!! Aaaaaaaaah!!!!!

We had a chance to go up 10 with about 2 1/2 minutes left and Rondo missed those FT's followed by the insertion of TA.  We end up in overtime.  Go figure.

Yup, this was possibly Doc's worst move since he has been coach of the C's.  The C's were on a run, and seemingly on the way to putting the game away, and he replaces Baby (who was a big part of the run) with Tony.  And more importantly, Tony proved after the first possession that his head was firmly implanted in his umm rear, which he never is able to get over very quickly, yet Doc stuck with him well into the first OT. 

It was a terrible decision.

With that said, I can't blame Doc too much for anything when he was dealt such a difficult hand with this roster, due to injuries, and inneffectiveness of healthy bench players.

[ScoobyDoo]

I figured this post was coming. To actually blame Tony Allen like he was a big reason we lost is beyond compreshension to me. How about:

1. Doc watching John Salmons blow by Pierce about 700 times and going straight for the rim time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time afeter time after time....after time after time.....after time.......
without ever really making a defensive adjustment

As someone else mentioned and which I've called for ad nauseum, PUT TONY ON SALMONS BECAUSE SALMONS IS TOO FAST FOR PAUL PIERCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and as some mentioned, Tony basically shut Salmons down when Pierce got the bloody nose. The reason is BECAUSE TONY HAS ENOUGH SPEED TO STAY WITH SALMONS!!!!!!!!!! PAUL PIERCE DOES NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd rather see Pierce on Noah than on Salmons for God's sake.

2. or how about Rondo giving the ball to TA with very little time on the shot clock down the stretch.

3. Or how about when you have a 9 point lead you make 5 trips down the floor where Perkins, Rondo and Tony Allen are taking the shots instead or your best offensive player, namely Pierce, Big Baby and oh yeah, the guy who's gone off for 51, Ray Allen. Is this Tony Allen's fault or is it maybe the fault of:
A) Doc, for not insisting that's what happens
B) Rondo, for not making sure that's what happens
C) Pierce, Ray and Baby not making sure that's what happens.
D) Or does Tony Allen run the team!?

The concept that you have a 9 point lead with three minutes to go and you have Perkins taking jump shots from the baseline and Rondo from the arc is so alien to me I can't even comprehend it.

4. Or how about Doc playign these guys into the ground. INTO-THE-GROUND. I don't care how weak your bench is ( and I perosnally don't think ours is that weak if you mix and match it with the starters )you HVE TO GET YOUR GUYS SOME REST. The majority of the Bulls Key guys are in their 20's, ours, their 30's and with miles. I wouldn't bring this up if Peirce and Ray were in their 20's, but they aren't. We may win this one yet, but what do we have left?

You're telling me, Tony can't get Paul 8 minutes rest in the 2nd & 3rd quarters, same for Ray? Give me a break. Marbury & house between them can't get Rondo 8-10 minutes rest in the 2nd and 3rd quarter? Moore can't get Perk 8-10 minutes rest, scal can't do the same for Baby? Horrific player minute manangement and rotations had way more to do with the loss than Tony Allen.

5. There was a reaosn Pierce turned the ball twice and he couldn't catch Noah. He's exhausted and it's not just from basketball. It's from the minutes. Not just this series, all season. Doc's been riding him and Ray way too much, this has been debated ad nauseum this year.

6. If you want to get really technical, balme Ainge, not Tony Allen. When Ainge should have front loaded this team because everybody's aunt knew we'd be a major target tryign to repeat....he stripped the bench, forcing our big three to play way too many hard miunutes.

I fully see Tony's weaknesses and they are significant. But he has positives and he IS 100% NOT THE REASON WE lost this game. Tony is a good 8th or 9th man. His weakness are more glaring now because Ainge decided to get no wing for Pierce, decided to get no proven 6th man for this team to try and compete ane repeat. All we needed was two above average players this off season after we lost Posey. Birdman and Barnes ( OR THE EQUIVALENT) would have been more than enough.

7. How about Doc once again sticking a guy in who's barely seen the floor for the second half? I knwo Doc was limited with foul trouble and all but the point is that IMHO Doc simply needs to incorporate these bench players in spurts much more from start to finish. You get them in the flow and more importantly you get the starters soem rest.

Look, I'm not in love with TA as a player. I'd be all for a "better option" at the off guard and small. I actually think TA would be a great 3rd string off guard for us at the right price but with someone more realiable and well rounded in front of him. But he is not the basketball equivalent of the anti-christ.        
  

[CDawg834]

I understand Doc's decision to use TA for matchup purposes early in the game.  But on the court to start overtime??  When I saw him out there, I thought of that sports radio host (forget his name) who went completely insane a few years back after a Michigan State football loss:

"PUT THE BEST ELEVEN GUYS ON THE FIELD!!!!!"

That's all i could think of last night.  TA is not one of your five best players.  I understand the 2nd and 3rd OTs because of people fouling out, but Tony shouldn't have been in the game in the final minute of regulation/1st OT.

[ScoobyDoo]

That's intereting, fairweatherfan, I've been thiking the same thing. What if KG just dressed but didn't play, but was in the backs of the minds of the Bulls. You could even maybe have him come to the scorers' table to check in and then have Doc pull him back. It certainly would add to the "drama" of this series...
Still, I'd like him to sit out this game and the Orlando series, which I also think we can win without KG, and then come back in game three of the Cavs series.   

[NHcat3]

I've never been more disgusted or frustrated with a coach in my life. I will go to my grave wondering what in Gods name Tony Allen has contributed to justify giving him minutes in this series. 1st, Doc should've left Baby in there and forced the Bulls to adjust to US. But if you must go small, why Tony Allen? Why not House? Marbury? Anyone but TA. As many times as Doc says he's playing good D, it simply isn't true. For every good play he makes, he makes 3 bad ones. And there's no chance of him getting hot offensively. At least w/ House or Marbury you have a chance.  

[ScoobyDoo]

I agree Tony isn't the best option for any crunch time game. I'd love, really love to see Doc start using TA and the other available bench players more early on to get our starters more rest.

To me, that's where coachign comes in, figuring out how to maximize what you have.

1. Put Moore on  Miller and Perk on Noah for 8 minutes
2. Put Scal on Miller and baby on Noah for a few minutes
3. Put Pierce at Power against Ty Thomas and TA at small on Salmons
4. Put Marbury with Ray for a few minutes
5. Put Marbury with TA for a few minutes

Maybe it causes us to stay even or drop a couple points...but if our starters are fresh down the stretch I have confidence they'll close it out.

We also need this to happen to expect any reasonable chance of continuing to move forweard in these playoffs.

[CDawg834]

I figured this post was coming. To actually blame Tony Allen like he was a big reason we lost is beyond compreshension to me. How about:

1. Doc watching John Salmons blow by Pierce about 700 times and going straight for the rim time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time afeter time after time....after time after time.....after time.......
without ever really making a defensive adjustment

As someone else mentioned and which I've called for ad nauseum, PUT TONY ON SALMONS BECAUSE SALMONS IS TOO FAST FOR PAUL PIERCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and as some mentioned, Tony basically shut Salmons down when Pierce got the bloody nose. The reason is BECAUSE TONY HAS ENOUGH SPEED TO STAY WITH SALMONS!!!!!!!!!! PAUL PIERCE DOES NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd rather see Pierce on Noah than on Salmons for God's sake.

2. or how about Rondo giving the ball to TA with very little time on the shot clock down the stretch.

3. Or how about when you have a 9 point lead you make 5 trips down the floor where Perkins, Rondo and Tony Allen are taking the shots instead or your best offensive player, namely Pierce, Big Baby and oh yeah, the guy who's gone off for 51, Ray Allen. Is this Tony Allen's fault or is it maybe the fault of:
A) Doc, for not insisting that's what happens
B) Rondo, for not making sure that's what happens
C) Pierce, Ray and Baby not making sure that's what happens.
D) Or does Tony Allen run the team!?

The concept that you have a 9 point lead with three minutes to go and you have Perkins taking jump shots from the baseline and Rondo from the arc is so alien to me I can't even comprehend it.

4. Or how about Doc playign these guys into the ground. INTO-THE-GROUND. I don't care how weak your bench is ( and I perosnally don't think ours is that weak if you mix and match it with the starters )you HVE TO GET YOUR GUYS SOME REST. The majority of the Bulls Key guys are in their 20's, ours, their 30's and with miles. I wouldn't bring this up if Peirce and Ray were in their 20's, but they aren't. We may win this one yet, but what do we have left?

You're telling me, Tony can't get Paul 8 minutes rest in the 2nd & 3rd quarters, same for Ray? Give me a break. Marbury & house between them can't get Rondo 8-10 minutes rest in the 2nd and 3rd quarter? Moore can't get Perk 8-10 minutes rest, scal can't do the same for Baby? Horrific player minute manangement and rotations had way more to do with the loss than Tony Allen.

5. There was a reaosn Pierce turned the ball twice and he couldn't catch Noah. He's exhausted and it's not just from basketball. It's from the minutes. Not just this series, all season. Doc's been riding him and Ray way too much, this has been debated ad nauseum this year.

6. If you want to get really technical, balme Ainge, not Tony Allen. When Ainge should have front loaded this team because everybody's aunt knew we'd be a major target tryign to repeat....he stripped the bench, forcing our big three to play way too many hard miunutes.

I fully see Tony's weaknesses and they are significant. But he has positives and he IS 100% NOT THE REASON WE lost this game. Tony is a good 8th or 9th man. His weakness are more glaring now because Ainge decided to get no wing for Pierce, decided to get no proven 6th man for this team to try and compete ane repeat. All we needed was two above average players this off season after we lost Posey. Birdman and Barnes ( OR THE EQUIVALENT) would have been more than enough.

7. How about Doc once again sticking a guy in who's barely seen the floor for the second half? I knwo Doc was limited with foul trouble and all but the point is that IMHO Doc simply needs to incorporate these bench players in spurts much more from start to finish. You get them in the flow and more importantly you get the starters soem rest.

Look, I'm not in love with TA as a player. I'd be all for a "better option" at the off guard and small. I actually think TA would be a great 3rd string off guard for us at the right price but with someone more realiable and well rounded in front of him. But he is not the basketball equivalent of the anti-christ.        
  

See, now THIS is a valid argument...a lot of the back and forth between the pro-TA guys and anti-TA guys is a debate on whether or not he is a good, or even average player.

I feel he is a well below-average player, but's not his fault we lost, because the coaching staff put him out there despite his shortcomings (well, one may say "shortcomings," I would say "incompetence on offense").  But he does make a legit point.  Unless TA checked himself into the game without Doc knowing, then we can't put it all on him.

[KungPoweChicken]

There is hate here for Tony Allen that borders on the irrational.

I don't think there's hate here necessarily...I think the gist of it is that Tony Allen is not who we want on the floor in crunch time and for good reason. That said, It's not his fault alone that we lost the game for sure (although I do want to blame him and/or Doc for having him out there in the first place)

When Rondo plays scared, they lose. When Pierce turns the ball over in crunch time, they lose.

Now This, I completely agree with. I was aggravated with Tony on the floor but I was REALLY frustrated with Pierce. Not Rondo so much. I prefer for Rondo to run the offense than for Pierce to run the clock down and turn it over.

Are you new to the Celtics? That's Paul's signature play.

Except for when he's hitting clutch shots, winning us games, and being named Finals MVP.

Considering your last post about Rondo, You are a what have you done for me lately kind of guy. Since you don't care about Rondo's stats, (because he had one bad game) why should you care about Paul's Finals MVP? The truth of that matter is, outside a few big shots in game five, Pierce has been atrocious all series. Oh yeah, in case you're wondering, this is when you're supposed to track down some stats to "prove" how great Pierce has been.

[ScoobyDoo]

Yes Dawg, exactly. I understand Tony's shortcomings and they're glaring.

But should Perk & Rondo be taking jumpshots with a 9 point lead and 3 minutes to go. Was that Tony's call? Did he block Rondo's foul shot's? Force Pierce to make two ridiculous turnovers? Or foul Noah ona breakway dunk? Or tell Doc to never give the starters any rest, ever? or insist that Ainge stip our bench on a repeat year?

TA is a very good 8th, 9th or 10 man. Accordingly he has a few positive and some glaring weaknesses. Throughout the course of the year he's give you some games where he shines, games where he blows. It's pretty simple.

It's the same with any other 8th, 9th or 10th men...on any team. That's why they're called that.

I'd still want him long term at the right price and at 3rd string.    

[liam]

Yes Dawg, exactly. I understand Tony's shortcomings and they're glaring.

But should Perk & Rondo be taking jumpshots with a 9 point lead and 3 minutes to go. Was that Tony's call? Did he block Rondo's foul shot's? Force Pierce to make two ridiculous turnovers? Or foul Noah ona breakway dunk? Or tell Doc to never give the starters any rest, ever? or insist that Ainge stip our bench on a repeat year?

TA is a very good 8th, 9th or 10 man. Accordingly he has a few positive and some glaring weaknesses. Throughout the course of the year he's give you some games where he shines, games where he blows. It's pretty simple.

It's the same with any other 8th, 9th or 10th men...on any team. That's why they're called that.

I'd still want him long term at the right price and at 3rd string.    

Tony Allen is a good 15th man, wait, no he's not. He's best on somebody elses team.

[ScoobyDoo]

It's confirmed. Tony Allen IS the Anti-Christ. All debate has ended... LOL.