Paul Pierce is not clutch (from the free throw line)

[guava_wrench]

Why are we whining about clutch FT stats? If PP hadn't made a 3 point foul play and a clutch 3, that missed free throw would have meant nothing.

No one likes to credit the Orlando defense. We should. I feel like a broken record on this point, but we are not the only team in the league that works hard on defense and can get stops.
TP, and it's because god forbid we tip our hat to the magic playing great defense on their home court and showing some heart forcing a game 7, instead we need to chew our own guys apart and spit them out.

no opposing team gets credit around here, and i hate coming here the day after losses because people just rip our guys and don't even acknowledge the other team might have had something to do with it. So far this morning, things ive learned about the team:

- PP is a selfish ball hog, and cost us the game by dominating the ball in the 2nd half.

- PP sucks at FT's, and is a choke artist

- Ray allen is washed up, and should be traded immediately.

- Rondo isn't a good rebounder, he just steals rebounds from perk to pad stats.

- Rondo is arrogant, and isn't running the team as he should

- Rondo is a bad defender, and should be benched.

- Marbury officially worthless to the team again.


- Big baby davis came back to earth, and is not very good to begin with.

- Ray allen has lost the ablity to shoot the 3, and eddie should start game 7.


Yet ive seen one...mabey two mentions of the fact that the magic dug down and played some really, really good defense and hit some big shots. They showed up on thier home floor, give them credit. They had every reason to fold, multiple times (i thought they would) and start pointing fingers when they couldn't hit the broad side of a barn in the first half and third quarter.

Does that mean the celtics are immune to criticism? of course not, we didn't help ourselves with our turnovers and poor execution, but people act like every member of our team is a horrible basketball player and teammate after every loss. Calm down and enjoy game seven IMO, im proud of this team either way

  Definitely the post of the day. Does everyone realize that Orlando had the best defense in the league this year?

People like to ignore the fact that the opponents are playing defense. They seem to think we are the only team that can shut down opposing players.

[droopdog7]

The fact is, PP has had some memorable choke jobs at the line in the playoffs.  And while missing one FT may be viewed either way, missing two can't be viewed as anything other than a choke job. 

And I also agree that the two FT's were much more than just two points.  Momentum definitely swung on and PP definitely hung his head after the misses.  It may well have been a different game had he made those FT's.

Am I blaming the loss on PP?  Of course not.  I understand what kind of player he is and what he has done in the past and in last night's game.  I just have less confidence in him at the line than I do almost any other good FT shooter.

[Fafnir]

The fact is, PP has had some memorable choke jobs at the line in the playoffs.  And while missing one FT may be viewed either way, missing two can't be viewed as anything other than a choke job. 

And I also agree that the two FT's were much more than just two points.  Momentum definitely swung on and PP definitely hung his head after the misses.  It may well have been a different game had he made those FT's.

Am I blaming the loss on PP?  Of course not.  I understand what kind of player he is and what he has done in the past and in last night's game.  I just have less confidence in him at the line than I do almost any other good FT shooter.

He's also had some memorable made FTs that have won games. He's not a great free throw shooter overall. Why would he be a great FT shooter in tough situations?

Remember he hit the free throws to put Game 2 of the finals away after we blew most of the lead. Garnett missed two FTs that could have allowed us to take a lead in Game 5 of the Finals as well. Both are roughly the same when it comes to their careers from the line.

Guys who are near 80% free throw shooters aren't automatic from the line, I don't know why people expect him to be.

[crownsy]

The fact is, PP has had some memorable choke jobs at the line in the playoffs.  And while missing one FT may be viewed either way, missing two can't be viewed as anything other than a choke job. 

And I also agree that the two FT's were much more than just two points.  Momentum definitely swung on and PP definitely hung his head after the misses.  It may well have been a different game had he made those FT's.

Am I blaming the loss on PP?  Of course not.  I understand what kind of player he is and what he has done in the past and in last night's game.  I just have less confidence in him at the line than I do almost any other good FT shooter.

thats the thing though, He's not really that good of a FT shooter, never has been he's at what, 83% for his career last time i checked?

thats ok, like a B-. and as fai said, he has hit some very clutch FT's as well.

The simple truth, pardon the pun, is that he is not ray allen or eddie house from the line. guys tend to shoot thier percentages, no matter who they are.

[Jaycelt]

Where were the posts the last two games when PP was going 14 of 14 and 7 of 7 from the line?
I don't remember anyone talking about his "made" free throws won us the game.

Just for the fun of it I'd like to see any of you guys complaining run around the gym for 40 minutes then throw yourselves into a 300 lb tackling dummy, land straight on your back while maybe even hitting your head on the floor, and then go up to the free throw line right away and hit two free throws.  You make it sound like it's a piece of cake.  Guess what?  It ain't.

[guava_wrench]

Where were the posts the last two games when PP was going 14 of 14 and 7 of 7 from the line?
I don't remember anyone talking about his "made" free throws won us the game.

Just for the fun of it I'd like to see any of you guys complaining run around the gym for 40 minutes then throw yourselves into a 300 lb tackling dummy, land straight on your back while maybe even hitting your head on the floor, and then go up to the free throw line right away and hit two free throws.  You make it sound like it's a piece of cake.  Guess what?  It ain't.

Why do you expect people to look at all the data and to be consistent? That makes it harder to rant.

[droopdog7]

Where were the posts the last two games when PP was going 14 of 14 and 7 of 7 from the line?
I don't remember anyone talking about his "made" free throws won us the game.

Just for the fun of it I'd like to see any of you guys complaining run around the gym for 40 minutes then throw yourselves into a 300 lb tackling dummy, land straight on your back while maybe even hitting your head on the floor, and then go up to the free throw line right away and hit two free throws.  You make it sound like it's a piece of cake.  Guess what?  It ain't.

I know it's not easy.  But guess what?  That's what separates the good from the great.  And while PP will always be remembered for what he did in the finals last year, missing crucial FT's in multiple is also part of it.  Kobe has been involved in many more crucial games and yet, I cannot recall a single instance where he choked it away on the FT line.  And my guess is that they have similar percentages. 

Commenting on situations that have happened doesn't mean I am bashing him.  But the fact is, he choked yesterday, just like a lot of others have before him.   

[Mr October]

Where were the posts the last two games when PP was going 14 of 14 and 7 of 7 from the line?
I don't remember anyone talking about his "made" free throws won us the game.

Just for the fun of it I'd like to see any of you guys complaining run around the gym for 40 minutes then throw yourselves into a 300 lb tackling dummy, land straight on your back while maybe even hitting your head on the floor, and then go up to the free throw line right away and hit two free throws.  You make it sound like it's a piece of cake.  Guess what?  It ain't.

I know it's not easy.  But guess what?  That's what separates the good from the great.  And while PP will always be remembered for what he did in the finals last year, missing crucial FT's in multiple is also part of it.  Kobe has been involved in many more crucial games and yet, I cannot recall a single instance where he choked it away on the FT line.  And my guess is that they have similar percentages. 

Commenting on situations that have happened doesn't mean I am bashing him.  But the fact is, he choked yesterday, just like a lot of others have before him.   

I can't recall Kobe missing clutch FTs... But I do recall him missing TONS of big shots, especially game winners. All the great ones have good moments and bad moments. Pierce is no different.

[KungPoweChicken]

Why are people making excuses for Pierce? The fact is that he missed two clutch free throws. Unbelievable. The title of this thread is not about how good of a player Pierce is, or about the big shots he hit before his free throw misses, or about that "really hard foul before he got to the line". When people have been cornered and beat in an argument, it's amazing the things they will come up with. He missed two important free throws, which is inexcusable! Arguments like, "well, he's actually The Truth and he's been shooting 90% at the line"; those arguments don't hold any water. He didn't come through. End of story.

[Roy Hobbs]

Why are people making excuses for Pierce? The fact is that he missed two clutch free throws. Unbelievable. The title of this thread is not about how good of a player Pierce is, or about the big shots he hit before his free throw misses, or about that "really hard foul before he got to the line". When people have been cornered and beat in an argument, it's amazing the things they will come up with. He missed two important free throws, which is inexcusable! Arguments like, "well, he's actually The Truth and he's been shooting 90% at the line"; those arguments don't hold any water. He didn't come through. End of story.

I think it's fair to call those free throws clutch, because of the game situation.  I don't think it's fair, though, to blame the loss on Pierce, or suggest that if he had made one or both shots, we would have won.

[KungPoweChicken]

Even though I would have preferred Paul to make his foul shots, I think it's hard to blame two missed FTs for an eight point loss.

You must not have watched the game. The eight point difference in score was not indicative as to how close the game was and how imperative Paul's free throws were. As another poster already stated, the Celtics were on a run, and Pierce was the only Celtic who could score the ball at the time. The two free throws would have given the Celtics the lead when points were extremely hard to come by. (They only scored 13 points in the fourth quarter, Roy Hobbs.) And what did Paul do at the line? He bricked two free ones. But hey, when you've been arguing how clutch Pierce has been for a month and the dude goes and bricks to free throws, I guess the only thing you can do is say, "The Magic won by eight." Good rationale.

How come you have 53 TP's?

I understand for some odd reason it has become personal with you. But must you resort to immature troll posts when you don't agree with me? ( This is where you should say, "no I really wanted to know how you had 53 Tommy Points.")

[Roy Hobbs]

Even though I would have preferred Paul to make his foul shots, I think it's hard to blame two missed FTs for an eight point loss.

You must not have watched the game. The eight point difference in score was not indicative as to how close the game was and how imperative Paul's free throws were. As another poster already stated, the Celtics were on a run, and Pierce was the only Celtic who could score the ball at the time. The two free throws would have given the Celtics the lead when points were extremely hard to come by. (They only scored 13 points in the fourth quarter, Roy Hobbs.) And what did Paul do at the line? He bricked two free ones. But hey, when you've been arguing how clutch Pierce has been for a month and the dude goes and bricks to free throws, I guess the only thing you can do is say, "The Magic won by eight." Good rationale.

Please don't mischaracterize my arguments, question my fan credentials, or mock my reasoning.  The same goes for your interactions with everybody else.

Your anti-Pierce agenda is clear, to the point where I think it's useless to try to persuade you.  Pierce contributing one or two additional points last night is not likely to have resulted in a win, the way the rest of the team was playing.  I'm not sure how those one or two points would have improved his teammates' scoring or led to the Celtics playing better defense, not giving up a wide open look to Turkuglu, etc.  However, I'll save my typing for somebody else, but again:  watch your tone.

[Jaycelt]

Where were the posts the last two games when PP was going 14 of 14 and 7 of 7 from the line?
I don't remember anyone talking about his "made" free throws won us the game.

Just for the fun of it I'd like to see any of you guys complaining run around the gym for 40 minutes then throw yourselves into a 300 lb tackling dummy, land straight on your back while maybe even hitting your head on the floor, and then go up to the free throw line right away and hit two free throws.  You make it sound like it's a piece of cake.  Guess what?  It ain't.

I know it's not easy.  But guess what?  That's what separates the good from the great.  And while PP will always be remembered for what he did in the finals last year, missing crucial FT's in multiple is also part of it.  Kobe has been involved in many more crucial games and yet, I cannot recall a single instance where he choked it away on the FT line.  And my guess is that they have similar percentages. 

Commenting on situations that have happened doesn't mean I am bashing him.  But the fact is, he choked yesterday, just like a lot of others have before him.   

Funny, I remember Kobe missing plenty of crucial ft's.  A couple in the finals against us stick out prominently. In fact Kobe shot only 79% against the C's in the finals while PP shot 83%.  I guess that makes Kobe just as human as PP afterall.
 Again, he's no different than any other superstar.  They make some they miss some.  MJ would be the first to admit that he's missed some big free throws through his career too.  Either people have selective memories or they don't watch as much as they think they do.

[xmuscularghandix]

this has been a knock on him for his whole career.

[ACF]

I understand for some odd reason it has become personal with you. But must you resort to immature troll posts when you don't agree with me? ( This is where you should say, "no I really wanted to know how you had 53 Tommy Points.")

I'd rather not do this in public
but I've tried to send you PM's
and I've told you to check them.
You come across as arrogant when
you ignore me. I'm not a guy that
likes being mad at people and vice
versa, you should know by now.

Yes! Let's all turn off our light bulbs for the day, and let's not drive our cars too! This saved energy will surely bring global warming to a halt!

See, this comment was totally uncalled for.
I know it was an attempt at being funny but
I did not find it funny and I'm sure most people
here didn't either. All you did was try to
make me look like a fool and I didn't like
that. I tried to PM you and and said so in a thread.
I like to come to CB to have a good and
friendly discussion and I don't like when people put
me down for no reason. If you'd added something
meaningful/insightful to the discussion, fine.
But that wasn't meaningful or insightful.

I don't want to bicker over this and I'm sorry about
that TP comment. I'd rather be your friend than
be your foe. Peace.

(Edit: Spelling.)