Turning Point in Celtics History

[Soul_Patch]

We’ve all known since August 2007 that the current championship window was small. How small was a matter of debate, but we knew it was gonna be small. Out on the road last night, I got my first inkling that the window might be closing already. “Garnett Out (knee).” Having missed four weeks of action, Garnett returned for what seemed like a cup of coffee, and he’s already back on the shelf. Not good.

This has 1987 written all over it, meaning I’m starting to see where this movie is headed and I don’t like the ending.

But it doesn’t have to be that way. Kevin McHale broke his foot during the 1986-87 season, and still played some amazing basketball down the stretch and into the playoffs. You can debate #32’s decision to forego surgery until after the season, but don’t expect Kevin Garnett to be sitting once the playoffs start either.

Which brings us to playing time and his role.

Let’s just cut to the chase. Bring  Kevin Garnett off the bench for 16-24 minutes per game (once his latest period of recuperation is over). His high energy, multi-skilled game is perfect for a sixth man, just like it was for the last All-World player to wear #5 in Boston. You keep his minutes low, but you keep him in the game when it counts—the fourth quarter.

I don’t think the Celtics need him playing 40 minutes to repeat. They just need to know psychologically as a team that he is available to play and that he’ll make an impact when he does play. The rest of the team will do its best to make up the difference while he’s out. Plus you get him and Steph together on the second unit, which will give that team an advantage over every other bench in the playoffs.

There will be those of you who say we can’t beat Cleveland and we can’t beat LA with KG playing 20 MPGs. Maybe, maybe not. If so, maybe we amp up his minutes in some of those games. There will also be some of you who think this idea crazy. Fine, but I am serious. This is the perfect opportunity to give it a shot. It could lengthen his career and our window of opportunity.

Clearly, this is a turning point in Celtics’ history. Once the KG Era is over, the green will likely go back to being middle-dwellers, which in the NBA is its own form of hell. I’d like to postpone that fate as long as possible. Bringing KG off the bench might just do the trick.

[Kwhit10]

It's not a bad idea, I don't really know how it will work.  But I can definitely say that I am very impressed with how Powe (before injury) and BBD have come along and played during this stretch while KG was injured.  And they can definitely play more minutes as they are young and hustle a lot. They can definitely hold it down in somewhat of a starting role.

[Steve Weinman]

We’ve all known since August 2007 that the current championship window was small. How small was a matter of debate, but we knew it was gonna be small. Out on the road last night, I got my first inkling that the window might be closing already. “Garnett Out (knee).” Having missed four weeks of action, Garnett returned for what seemed like a cup of coffee, and he’s already back on the shelf. Not good.

This has 1987 written all over it, meaning I’m starting to see where this movie is headed and I don’t like the ending.

But it doesn’t have to be that way. Kevin McHale broke his foot during the 1986-87 season, and still played some amazing basketball down the stretch and into the playoffs. You can debate #32’s decision to forego surgery until after the season, but don’t expect Kevin Garnett to be sitting once the playoffs start either.

Which brings us to playing time and his role.

Let’s just cut to the chase. Bring  Kevin Garnett off the bench for 16-24 minutes per game (once his latest period of recuperation is over). His high energy, multi-skilled game is perfect for a sixth man, just like it was for the last All-World player to wear #5 in Boston. You keep his minutes low, but you keep him in the game when it counts—the fourth quarter.

I don’t think the Celtics need him playing 40 minutes to repeat. They just need to know psychologically as a team that he is available to play and that he’ll make an impact when he does play. The rest of the team will do its best to make up the difference while he’s out. Plus you get him and Steph together on the second unit, which will give that team an advantage over every other bench in the playoffs.

There will be those of you who say we can’t beat Cleveland and we can’t beat LA with KG playing 20 MPGs. Maybe, maybe not. If so, maybe we amp up his minutes in some of those games. There will also be some of you who think this idea crazy. Fine, but I am serious. This is the perfect opportunity to give it a shot. It could lengthen his career and our window of opportunity.

Clearly, this is a turning point in Celtics’ history. Once the KG Era is over, the green will likely go back to being middle-dwellers, which in the NBA is its own form of hell. I’d like to postpone that fate as long as possible. Bringing KG off the bench might just do the trick.

Don't know that I necessarily see it your way, but certainly an interesting first post - so here's your first Tommy Point as a welcome to the forums.

Looking forward to your contributions, Soul.

-sw

[tb727]

Clearly, this is a turning point in Celtics’ history. Once the KG Era is over, the green will likely go back to being middle-dwellers, which in the NBA is its own form of hell. I’d like to postpone that fate as long as possible. Bringing KG off the bench might just do the trick.

Maybe I'm being an optimist but I actually think the Celts are going to keep afloat this time around.  Ray Allen's contract comes off the books after next year- I'd assume he'll resign in Boston for a smaller amount since he'll be 35 and enjoys playing in Boson.

Ainge is still doing a terrific job of stockpiling young players who exceed their expectations.  Look how far BBD has come- he's prob looking at a mid-level offer this offseason by another team.

Anyways if he continues to collect trade chips (Bill Walker, Giddens, Pruitt) and there's a veteran out there disenchanted with his situation, the right deal can come along and this can continue. 

I think the Celts have come to realize that it's much easier to become better through trades and free agency than wallowing in the middle of the lottery.

[Drucci]

Your idea is really interesting and it should work considering how the team seems to step up when the game matters and when KG doesn't play (like they did in Atlanta last night). BBD and Powe (hopefully he'll be ready for the playoffs) have really improved and bring some real punch to the team (offensively and defensively) so adding KG off the bench would be really working in my opinion.

However, is that me or are you being too pessimistic? I mean, KG seems to need some additional rest... or he is just being cautious, we don't really know since the staff is quite mysterious about the gravity of his injury. But I think he will be healthy for the playoffs. Maybe not 100% healthy but healthy enough to be a starter and play 30+ minutes for each game. Of course, if BBD and Powe play well and KG can rest during the playoffs, then rest him as much as possible (as you should do the same with Ray and Paul when their backups are playing well). But I think Garnett's health is not that bad. Unless I'm not aware of some terrible bad news about his knee.

[KJ33]

I understand your thinking in terms of using his minutes the best way possible, but you limit much of KG's effectiveness if he is not playing with the 1st unit.  His connection with Rondo on the alley oop and running the floor, the kick outs he gives Ray, the dumps he gives Paul on the give and go, the inside looks he gives to Perk for easy dunks, are all things he brings to that unit. 

At this point in his career, he is not a great individual one-on-one player, and looking for him to be a bigger scorer with less talented players on the second unit is not the best way to use him in my opinion.  Not only does he help all the starters, he feeds off their abilities and gets easier looks for himself consequently.  All of this would not happen were he the best player on the floor playing with the subs.

[Soul_Patch]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts.

As for why I am so concerned, a few things.

1) I'm probably extra-sensitive from having lived through the 1986-87 season, and getting my hopes up that Walton would get healthy.

2) I didn't read all of the articles on KG's return. But I don't recall anything about him potentially missing games during the return. Instead, I just read about sticking to the 16 MPGs for a while. Thus, I see these two missed games as a setback, which  brings me back to 1).

3) Doc admitted KG is hurting.

4) KG isn't in as bad of shape as Walton or McHale in 87, and I'd like to think there was something we can do to prevent that and keep him playing at a high level until he's 37. Didn't Kareem win a Finals MVP at 39?

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

We’ve all known since August 2007 that the current championship window was small. How small was a matter of debate, but we knew it was gonna be small. Out on the road last night, I got my first inkling that the window might be closing already. “Garnett Out (knee).” Having missed four weeks of action, Garnett returned for what seemed like a cup of coffee, and he’s already back on the shelf. Not good.

This has 1987 written all over it, meaning I’m starting to see where this movie is headed and I don’t like the ending.

But it doesn’t have to be that way. Kevin McHale broke his foot during the 1986-87 season, and still played some amazing basketball down the stretch and into the playoffs. You can debate #32’s decision to forego surgery until after the season, but don’t expect Kevin Garnett to be sitting once the playoffs start either.

Which brings us to playing time and his role.

Let’s just cut to the chase. Bring  Kevin Garnett off the bench for 16-24 minutes per game (once his latest period of recuperation is over). His high energy, multi-skilled game is perfect for a sixth man, just like it was for the last All-World player to wear #5 in Boston. You keep his minutes low, but you keep him in the game when it counts—the fourth quarter.

I don’t think the Celtics need him playing 40 minutes to repeat. They just need to know psychologically as a team that he is available to play and that he’ll make an impact when he does play. The rest of the team will do its best to make up the difference while he’s out. Plus you get him and Steph together on the second unit, which will give that team an advantage over every other bench in the playoffs.

There will be those of you who say we can’t beat Cleveland and we can’t beat LA with KG playing 20 MPGs. Maybe, maybe not. If so, maybe we amp up his minutes in some of those games. There will also be some of you who think this idea crazy. Fine, but I am serious. This is the perfect opportunity to give it a shot. It could lengthen his career and our window of opportunity.

Clearly, this is a turning point in Celtics’ history. Once the KG Era is over, the green will likely go back to being middle-dwellers, which in the NBA is its own form of hell. I’d like to postpone that fate as long as possible. Bringing KG off the bench might just do the trick.

TP for you Mr. Soul Patch!

I absolutely love the idea for 2 reasons:

1. It's an insult to opponents. In all honesty (the collective) "we" already don't respect any of our opponents and KG coming off the bench basically says "we don't need him to play many minutes to beat you".

2. All the points you made...gives him rest, 6th man role he would embrace (I hope!), allows BBD to blossom/step up etc...

[Redz]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts.

As for why I am so concerned, a few things.

1) I'm probably extra-sensitive from having lived through the 1986-87 season, and getting my hopes up that Walton would get healthy.

2) I didn't read all of the articles on KG's return. But I don't recall anything about him potentially missing games during the return. Instead, I just read about sticking to the 16 MPGs for a while. Thus, I see these two missed games as a setback, which  brings me back to 1).

3) Doc admitted KG is hurting.

4) KG isn't in as bad of shape as Walton or McHale in 87, and I'd like to think there was something we can do to prevent that and keep him playing at a high level until he's 37. Didn't Kareem win a Finals MVP at 39?

Soul Patch...first off thanks for the thoughtful first post.

I do think comparing this to a Walton 86/87 only holds water because it was the Celtics and they were coming off a championship.  Besides that there's not much similar.  Walton's ankles holding together for the `86 season was beyond miraculous.  The guy had had a career's worth of misery with his ankles.  Maybe this injury will end up being debilitating for KG over the rest of the season and playoffs, but there's no real personal history to suggest this. 

If he can only go for short spurts, sure, play him the way they've been playing him.   But if he is ready to go, they have to unleash him and go with their best lineup as much as possible.

[greenwise]

If his knee is really injured as it seems it is and no surgery will be made until after the offseason then I agree that this would be the best idea.

I like KG's intensity at the start of the game and 3rd quarter (what Doc is trying to use) but I rather have him for the 4th quarter and playing with that second unit with Marbury and Moore.

At least we could try this formula before the playoffs and see how it works

I am quite concerned about KG's knee.

[Thruthelookingglass]

I think the Celts have come to realize that it's much easier to become better through trades and free agency than wallowing in the middle of the lottery.

Doesn't hurt that Ainge has done a very good job of wallowing in the middle of the lottery!

Obviously, he hasn't found us Greg Oden and won't find us Blake Griffin or Hasheem Thabeet with the picks we've had.  But he manufactured a way to get Rondo in green, he found Powe and BBD.  I think it is clear that Ainge's draft successes are what also contributed to making the trades and building the team around our free agent stars.

[timpiker]

bringing KG off the bench?  No, I like the 8 mins in the 1Q and 8 mins in the 3Q and then the last 5 mins if he's needed.  That is, if he's healthy enough to even do that.  This recent issue really has me bothered and does remind me of 1987 again.

Its Deju Vu all over again!

What a diff a year makes.  One of the reasons for last year's success was that we were actually really really healthy all year long except for 8 games or so in jan 2008 when KG was out.  Other than that I can't remember anything.

This year?  Oh My God.  No intimidation factor.  No homecourt advantage.  Injuries.  Playing most games as if we can turn it off and on at will.  As of today, I think we'll be lucky to get through the 2nd round.

[ScoobyDoo]

Great post and an intersting one. I like for a number of reasons, some of which you have been pointed out already:

1. I do agree that both Powe and Baby have done admiral jobs in starting positions. If you now went to Powe or Baby ( most likely Baby, because his game is the most similar to Garnett's in his ability to shoot the outside shot and spread the floor like when KG is in there) and you told Baby, ok this is for real, it is time you step up big time....I think Big Baby responds. He seems to be a guy that likes the spot light.

2. The Combo of Perk and Big Baby is an enormous physical load on other teams and it is quite effective.

3. If you now bring KG off the bench with Marbury and the rest of the crew...thaqt is one helluva second unit that is quite intimidating.
Powe
Garnett
TAllen or Walker
House
Marbury

That is a very potent second unit with muscle and toughness and alot of offense.

I think it is a great way to increase the depth of the team.

The key in all of this is:

When Doc tells Baby "Ok, this is real now, you are starting and you need to produce night in and night out, you are a professional now"...that Baby reponds. If he does and you can get 18 and 12 nights out of him with KG coming in to anchor the second unit...

Lookout...

great post, Tommy point.   

[ScoobyDoo]

I would add that if KG is actaully able to come back 100% healthy, you still start him and have Big Baby play that sixth man role, for now...

[Soul_Patch]

The plot thickens, as they say.

KG won’t be playing 35-40 minutes per game any time soon, and perhaps never again. So that question is now a non-starter. But other questions remain to be answered:

1.   Do the Celtics play KG if he’s still limping come playoff time?
2.   If so, do they bring him off the bench?
3.   How bad must the injury be before they call it a season?
4.   Will they try to beat Philly in the first round without him playing?

I really hate to be Chicken Little, but I fully expect KG to be limping come playoff time.  It will thus be an interesting call to see whether they play KG in the first round and how much. I’m gonna say he sees limited action off the bench in the first round—very limited, and they’ll use that as a gage for the next round.

I don’t remember when Willis Reed injured his knee. But I will say its much different limping through a game or two in the NBA Finals than it is limping your way through the entire playoffs.