James Posey over TA?

[2short]

The mistake Ainge made wasn't necessarily passing on Posey.

It was failing to acknowledge - and thus replace - the variety of skills that Posey brought to the table, which have been recited on this board ad nauseum. The concept of versatility totally escaped him.

And, the failure to have a workable plan B if Posey signed elsewhere beyond year five of the failed Tony Allen experiment. At what point will Celtics management admit that he's an end-of-the-bench guy at best?

We still don't have a competent wing on the bench. That's Ainge's mistake.

enter bill walker

I like Bill, but don't you think its a tad bit early to call that a replacment for posey's strengths? The kid just started earning 10 minutes a game, and who knows if that will last.

I hope Bill plays gangbusters and gives us everything james did and more, but im not ready to conceed that this was some sort of master plan by ainge.

very true, i do however like what i've seen in his brief action, he brings posey toughness to every play and i feel he is a closer (but still rookie) comparison to posey rather than ta
i sadly don't think we'll see much of walker or pruitt this year , 2 young guys that i think could help, if marbury steps his game up we don't need pruitt but if we have allen & scal out we need walker at sf for 10 minutes

[cornbreadsmart]

nothing against bill walker. he should be [dang] proud for cracking the rotation of the defending world champs as a rookie. no small feat there. but i would be surprised if bill will be called upon and or come thru much in the playoffs. whole new ball game there. again, no knock on billy boy at all.

[D Dub]

Well, in hindsight; I would have to say that I feel pretty good about the guys who are stepping up in place of Posey.  I loved Big Game James as much as anyone, and went into the offseason with the mindset of Posey is a must.  Ainge made the right call though, here's why:

1- TA:  his defense is All NBA worthy and he is filling the role of 'slasher off the bench' that was noticeably absent during last years championship run

2- Scal:  he plays Posey's old role as well as anyone.  Given the opportunity, Scal is having a career year (minus the concussions) and defensively is much better than advertised, handling assignments at the 5, 4 and 3 quite well.

3- Billy:  you knew Ainge was gonna get one steal in the draft.  Without Posey's mpg freed up, we wouldn't know that last years steal was Bill Walker.  Posey's presence would have relegated him to the Dleague for the year.

That's three guys who have stepped their games up when presented with a chance to play more.  And if Scal can come back and play this year, we won't miss James one bit.  He is playing James's old role better this year than James himself is doing it in NO.

Good move by Ainge to not overspend on Posey.  He gambled that guys would step up in his place, and he was right.

[Mr October]

Posey is an excellent reserve. Tony Allen borderline sucks.


By the way: I'd rather have Sheed, Pachulia, or McDyess join the Celtics in 2009, over Posey resigning in 2008.

...Better use of the MLE.

[Mr October]

1- TA:  his defense is All NBA worthy and he is filling the role of 'slasher off the bench' that was noticeably absent during last years championship run

Woah, I just caught this. Tony's defense is overrated. He gambles too much, he's undersized and he makes a lot of mental mistakes. Other than that he does an OK job on defense.

On offense he is an undersized slasher with a bad handle and a bad outside shot.

Oh and he's injury prone. I hope we trade his expiring contract this summer.

[Mr October]

I feel like I was too harsh on Tony. On the plus side he hustles, works hard, and does well when he can attack the basket in a straight line.

Hopefully he can bring his scrappy hustle back to the court this Spring. Get well Tony.

[D Dub]

1- TA:  his defense is All NBA worthy and he is filling the role of 'slasher off the bench' that was noticeably absent during last years championship run

Woah, I just caught this. Tony's defense is overrated. He gambles too much, he's undersized and he makes a lot of mental mistakes. Other than that he does an OK job on defense.

On offense he is an undersized slasher with a bad handle and a bad outside shot.

Oh and he's injury prone. I hope we trade his expiring contract this summer.

That may be true in part, but I think that ability to slash is going to be very useful in the playoffs when guys like him get favorable treatment by most officials.  

And you can knock his D all you want, but there aren't many better defenders coming off anyone's bench around the league.  

But I do agree with you that we should look to move his expiring deal (especially with Billy coming up) and that all those other guys mentioned are a better use of the MLE than having re-signed Posey in 2008.

[paintitgreen]

That may be true in part, but I think that ability to slash is going to be very useful in the playoffs when guys like him get favorable treatment by most officials.  

Wait, when did Tony Allen become a superstar, because it's guys like that who could favorable treatment in the playoffs. Not bench guys who dribble it off their foot before they get to the basket.

Well, in hindsight; I would have to say that I feel pretty good about the guys who are stepping up in place of Posey.  I loved Big Game James as much as anyone, and went into the offseason with the mindset of Posey is a must.  Ainge made the right call though, here's why:

1- TA:  his defense is All NBA worthy and he is filling the role of 'slasher off the bench' that was noticeably absent during last years championship run

2- Scal:  he plays Posey's old role as well as anyone.  Given the opportunity, Scal is having a career year (minus the concussions) and defensively is much better than advertised, handling assignments at the 5, 4 and 3 quite well.

3- Billy:  you knew Ainge was gonna get one steal in the draft.  Without Posey's mpg freed up, we wouldn't know that last years steal was Bill Walker.  Posey's presence would have relegated him to the Dleague for the year.

That's three guys who have stepped their games up when presented with a chance to play more.  And if Scal can come back and play this year, we won't miss James one bit.  He is playing James's old role better this year than James himself is doing it in NO.

Good move by Ainge to not overspend on Posey.  He gambled that guys would step up in his place, and he was right.

You talk as though it's a definite TA and Scal will be back. I have no confidence based on his injury history that Tony Allen will be back. But if you're right, that would be incredible. I think you, like many, are stuck on the Tony Allen from his rookie year and the one that had a run of 20 point nights during the 18 game losing streak two years ago. I liked that guy's potential too, but haven't seen that guy since his second major knee injury.
'
Scal, similarly, has been very helpful this season, but are you honestly saying you ever want Brian Scalabrine covering the likes of Joe Johnson, Lebron James and Kobe Bryant? You're ignoring that Posey's role in last year's playoffs was much larger than his role in the regular season. (I recognize that Pierce played more and better defense on those guys in the playoffs, I'm just saying I don't want Scal covering them for 1 minute let alone the 10-15 minutes a night Posey picked up those assignments.) And if you're honestly saying that Scal has been better this year than James Posey has been in New Orleans, that's just nuts. And in the playoffs he'll remain an asset, and for us his role will be one that's tough to fill. Just watching him come up with a huge charge and three big threes in the fourth quarter against the Lakers a few weeks back (if Paul hadn't had a brainfart when the Hornets had a 3 point lead and the ball with 20 seconds to go and charged into Fisher, they win that game because of Posey), you just know he's still got what it takes to be a man you want on the court in the closing minutes of a do-or-die playoff game. Because he knows how to win. To say the same for Scal, I think is just crazy.

And Walker, well, I've always had high hopes for Walker. We got Powe late for similar reasons - he was an absolute stud player but his injury history scared everybody off. I'm pretty sure Powe led the Pac-10 in points and rebounds his final two years at Cal. From everything I read about Walker being considered a can't miss prospect in high school who got derailed by knee troubles but looked like everything he was hyped to be toward the end of last season for Kansas State, I was optimistic that if he could remain healthy, he had potential to be a very very good player. So I hate to say anything bad about him, but I'll just reiterate what many have said already - if he didn't crack ten minutes a night from Doc until we were down to ten available bodies, I just don't have much reason to think he'll be any part of this postseason. I really would like to see him, and hope he gets and keeps Doc's confidence.

I agree that was Danny's plan, but it just seemed too weak a plan from the start, and seems a little weaker now that Allen and Scal are injured with no ETA set for their return. I hope it works out and also hope we have enough other strengths to render Posey's absence insignificant. You can say the role isn't as necessary because of other upgrades, but to say it's been filled by those three guys ignores Posey's numerous contributions.

I also agree some of us talk about Posey too much. And trust me, we (or at least I) get the fact that he's not coming back and complaining about it doesn't make it any better. But maybe the reason so many people, particularly a lot of the guys who have been posting on CB for several years, talk about Posey is that Posey was a rare great role player (not great player, great role player) and the kind of guy you win with. It seems that most of the posters I have the greatest respect for, outside of the Posey debate, are the ones who value Posey the most. I guess that doesn't really mean a lot, but to me, it just makes me feel completely validated in wishing that Posey was back on the team.