Doc's contradictions

[Drucci]

Yes, the Celtics lost to the Heat and HCA is slipping away. Honestly, I thought I would be angry about this but I'm not because I think that being healthy is the priority for the Celtics in the playoffs. If the Celtics don't get passed by the Magic at the second spot in the East, I'm fine with it.

However, Doc's contradictions between his promises and his coaching are truly killing me. When you say that you'll get some rest for your starters, just do it. I was glad to read Doc's quote about it after the loss to the Magic :

Doc Rivers : "Somebody else has to step up and the challenge for me is not doing what I did (Sunday) with Paul and Ray, that can’t happen,” Rivers said. “Obviously, that was a different circumstance because the injuries happened during the game or right before the game. It’s tough to plan for but I still want to keep their minutes down, even in a time of crisis I want to keep their minutes down. We just have to find a way to win games."

And what is he doing in the next game at Miami? He lets Ray and Paul play 40+ minutes! I know key guys are missing from the rotation, I know that the team and Doc want to win every game, especially when they have a chance after a comeback like Sunday and yesterday, but for me this is unreasonable. I don't care if Ray and Paul want to play the whole game, you're the coach you must prevent them from doing it if you want to have them healthy in the playoffs.

I think Doc should respect his own promises, and keep in mind that the goal isn't to get the fist place in the East but to stay in front of Orlando while resting his key players. It will cost sacrifices but I'd rather see the C's quit a game in the third quarter if they trail by 10 points than watch Pierce and Ray playing 40+ minutes to attempt a comeback who may not be successful. Your thoughts?

P.S : please note that this isn't a "Doc bashing thread".

[crownsy]

Yes, the Celtics lost to the Heat and HCA is slipping away. Honestly, I thought I would be angry about this but I'm not because I think that being healthy is the priority for the Celtics in the playoffs. If the Celtics don't get passed by the Magic at the second spot in the East, I'm fine with it.

However, Doc's contradictions between his promises and his coaching are truly killing me. When you say that you'll get some rest for your starters, just do it. I was glad to read Doc's quote about it after the loss to the Magic :

Doc Rivers : "Somebody else has to step up and the challenge for me is not doing what I did (Sunday) with Paul and Ray, that can’t happen,” Rivers said. “Obviously, that was a different circumstance because the injuries happened during the game or right before the game. It’s tough to plan for but I still want to keep their minutes down, even in a time of crisis I want to keep their minutes down. We just have to find a way to win games."

And what is he doing in the next game at Miami? He lets Ray and Paul play 40+ minutes! I know key guys are missing from the rotation, I know that the team and Doc want to win every game, especially when they have a chance after a comeback like Sunday and yesterday, but for me this is unreasonable. I don't care if Ray and Paul want to play the whole game, you're the coach you must prevent them from doing it if you want to have them healthy in the playoffs.

I think Doc should respect his own promises, and keep in mind that the goal isn't to get the fist place in the East but to stay in front of Orlando while resting his key players. It will cost sacrifices but I'd rather see the C's quit a game in the third quarter if they trail by 10 points than watch Pierce and Ray playing 40+ minutes to attempt a comeback who may not be successful. Your thoughts?

P.S : please note that this isn't a "Doc bashing thread".

40 minutes in a winable game is not the same as 46 and 48 in a blow out.

40 minutes was appropriate for last night, IMO.

[Redz]

During the heat (no pun intended) of a game, it's got to be tough to just sit guys down because their minutes are up.

[Fafnir]

During the heat (no pun intended) of a game, it's got to be tough to just sit guys down because their minutes are up.

Plus is 40 minutes really that bad? Especially since we aren't involved in a back to back. I'd prefer 36 minutes but with so many rotation players hurt I don't think that is realistic.

[moiso]

I don't see where Doc promised anything in that quote.  He said he was going to try to keep their minutes down.  The Heat game was one in which he couldn't help himself because the game was winnable, I guess.

[Chris]

40 minutes in a winable game is not the same as 46 and 48 in a blow out.

40 minutes was appropriate for last night, IMO.

Agreed.  Doc did what he said he needed to.  This was not about playing Pierce and Allen 30 minutes per game to get them rested for the playoffs, this was to stop burning them out by playing them for 45+ minutes, and not getting to sit down at all during the second half.

I think at some point, when Garnett, and possibly Allen and/or Scal are back, you will see Pierce and Allen playing significantly less minutes.  Until then, if Doc can keep them to 42 minutes or less, then it will minimize the damage, while still trying to win games.

[nickagneta]

Doc said someone had to step up and that it would be a challenge for him to keep their numbers down. We can fool ourselves all we want about getting healthy, keeping minutes down and staving off Orlando but the realities of the situation are that Doc is down to a 9 man team(not counting Giddens since he will obviously never be seeing the floor unless we are up 35 with 4 minutes left in the game) with 2 of those players unproven young guys and 2 other guys that haven't been on the team very and and either not that good to begin with or haven't played in a year.

We are missing players number 2, 4, 7, 8, and 10 in our original ten man rotation. The fact that Doc can keep Ray and Pierce down to just 40 minutes and almost win games with unbelievable 4th quarter comebacks to good to very good teams is a testament to his ability and the abilities and heart and courage of the players on the court.

Never count out the heart of a champion.

[MVP]

I don't have much of the problem with the minutes against Miami. The problem is that Pierce averaged over 40 minutes during February when Rondo was healthy for the whole month and KG was healthy for most of the month. Bill Walker showed last night (and anytime he has gotten minutes) that he is able to contribute and should have been inserted into the rotation in February so that Pierce's minutes were in the 36-37 range. If Doc did that, Pierce would have been fresh and more able to carry more of the load right now and Walker might have developed into a solid player off the bench.

[cordobes]

This is getting nonsensical. We need to win games. These guys play around 3500 minutes per season. Why are people suddenly convinced that 40 minutes less will make such a difference? Once we have more bodies and more quality, they can start resting more.

Where's exactly the contradiction? He's been trying to keep their minutes down, it hasn't been possible. Tough luck, it happens.

[Chris]

This is getting nonsensical. We need to win games. These guys play around 3500 minutes per season. Why are people suddenly convinced that 40 minutes less will make such a difference? Once we have more bodies and more quality, they can start resting more.

Where's exactly the contradiction? He's been trying to keep their minutes down, it hasn't been possible. Tough luck, it happens.

I don't completely disagree with this.  I actually think way too much is made about "resting for the playoffs".  They will get their rest. 

To me, the issue is that when Doc plays Pierce for the entire second half of games (Allen as well, but I think its more obvious with Pierce), it leaves him with no gas in the tank for the last 3-4 minutes of the game.  I think this has directly contributed to a couple losses this season (particularly the Detroit one). 

Without Pierce having the lift in his legs to nail the jumpshots in the 4th quarter, the C's offense becomes very mediocre down the stretch.  I think Doc has realized this, and it is something that concerns him...much more than getting them rest for the playoffs.

[moiso]

The number of minutes sounds very high, but lets not forget how much actual rest the players get DURING the playoffs.  No back to backs and they play only two times or so during some weeks.

[twinbree]

Well Doc did promise to cut back their playing time which he has by a couple of minutes. But I agree he has to set a limit on  their minutes  and stick to it regardless the score. The problem is playing them 40 minutes in games that look winnable is that almost all their losses have looked winnable until the final minutes. Maybe giving Paul and Ray a lengthier rest in the 3rd and 4th quarters could have them close out games in the end.

[Chris]

The number of minutes sounds very high, but lets not forget how much actual rest the players get DURING the playoffs.  No back to backs and they play only two times or so during some weeks.

Exactly.  Plus, after next week (which will be incredibly tough if the C's are still shorthanded, since they have 5 games in 7 days), the C's have only 1 back to back remaining for the entire season (the last two games against Philly and Washington...and the last game will likely be a tank fest). 

[crownsy]

Well Doc did promise to cut back their playing time which he has by a couple of minutes. But I agree he has to set a limit on  their minutes  and stick to it regardless the score. The problem is playing them 40 minutes in games that look winnable is that almost all their losses have looked winnable until the final minutes. Maybe giving Paul and Ray a lengthier rest in the 3rd and 4th quarters could have them close out games in the end.

thats a terrable way to coach, to set time limit.


"well, were down 3 with 3 minutes left....aaww paul's played 35 minutes. Oh well"

last night was fine. 44+ minutes in blow out losses are not.

[davemonsterband]

The ring on his finger has earned my trust regardless of what he says. The media's a pawn.