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Re: Cassel Traded to Chiefs
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2009, 02:49:20 PM »

Offline KJ33

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There is clearly more to this than meets the eye.  Saying a 34th pick for Vrabel and Cassell is a steal, is a fantasy football mentality.  Tough choices have to be made with the cap, and Belichick obviously has some ideas with what to do with the room and flexibility now created. 

Without this part of the deal, even Belichick would agree with any of you that talent for talent on paper, Vrabel and Cassell is more combined talent than a 2nd rounder.  But NFL trades aren't just talent for talent.  Cassell and Vrabel are only worth more together, if another team besides the Chiefs is offering more, there is no set market value based on player talent rankings when it comes to doing a deal.
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Re: Cassel Traded to Chiefs
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2009, 02:52:19 PM »

Offline Jon

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I think this is pretty good.  How good will remain to be seen.  I think because Cassell was on the Patriots, he became overrated last season.  People saw shades of Brady in him because he came out of relative obscurity.  Moreover, because the Patriots were so good, Cassell looked really good.  While I think the kid has some talent, how do you think he's going to look on a team with inferior receivers? 
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Re: Cassel Traded to Chiefs
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2009, 03:01:57 PM »

Offline Hoyo de Monterrey

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Quote from: KJ33 on February 28, 2009, 02:49:20 PM
There is clearly more to this than meets the eye.  Saying a 34th pick for Vrabel and Cassell is a steal, is a fantasy football mentality.  Tough choices have to be made with the cap, and Belichick obviously has some ideas with what to do with the room and flexibility now created. 

Without this part of the deal, even Belichick would agree with any of you that talent for talent on paper, Vrabel and Cassell is more combined talent than a 2nd rounder.  But NFL trades aren't just talent for talent.  Cassell and Vrabel are only worth more together, if another team besides the Chiefs is offering more, there is no set market value based on player talent rankings when it comes to doing a deal.

Understood, but I just don't believe there wasn't a team out there that wouldn't have bit on Vrabel and his 4+ million dollar cap hit when the barely mobile Takeo Spikes gets 2 years and 6 million. Also, Bart Scott and Channing Crowder, while admittedly much more effective then Vrabel, have set a very high bar for LBs on the market. These are reasons why I'm pretty upset Vrabel yielded the Pats nothing. Market value would dictate that Vrabel with the cap hit is worth a whole lot more then ZERO. Nothing said he had to be included in the Cassel deal... Shop him elsewhere.
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Re: Cassel Traded to Chiefs
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2009, 03:16:56 PM »

Offline Big_Matt34

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Ill wait to see what we do with the pick and capspace before i judge. But if we end up getting Julius Peppers or Ray Lewis because of the caproom its essentially Cassel for Peppers/Lewis and Vrabel for the 34th pick, which id do both of in a heartbeat.
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Re: Cassel Traded to Chiefs
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2009, 03:26:18 PM »

Offline SShorefan 4.0

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Which one is Scott and which one is Bill.
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Re: Cassel Traded to Chiefs
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2009, 04:32:15 PM »

Offline Cman

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Quote from: Big_Matt34 on February 28, 2009, 03:16:56 PM
Ill wait to see what we do with the pick and capspace before i judge. But if we end up getting Julius Peppers or Ray Lewis because of the caproom its essentially Cassel for Peppers/Lewis and Vrabel for the 34th pick, which id do both of in a heartbeat.

Just to manage expectations, it is possible that the Pats don't do a whole lot with the cap space.  NFL teams are feeling the pinch, just like every other business.  Maybe the Pats will bargain basement shop, they way they did for a CB last off season...
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Re: Cassel Traded to Chiefs
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2009, 05:04:09 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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IMHO they should have gotten more for a Cassell-Vrabel package. It will be hard to get a free agent as good as Vrabel for the money Vrabel was making.
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Re: Cassel Traded to Chiefs
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2009, 05:09:09 PM »

Offline Tnerb02

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Quote from: Cman on February 28, 2009, 04:32:15 PM
Quote from: Big_Matt34 on February 28, 2009, 03:16:56 PM
Ill wait to see what we do with the pick and capspace before i judge. But if we end up getting Julius Peppers or Ray Lewis because of the caproom its essentially Cassel for Peppers/Lewis and Vrabel for the 34th pick, which id do both of in a heartbeat.

Just to manage expectations, it is possible that the Pats don't do a whole lot with the cap space.  NFL teams are feeling the pinch, just like every other business.  Maybe the Pats will bargain basement shop, they way they did for a CB last off season...
I think the Patriots can handle the extra salary.
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Re: Cassel Traded to Chiefs
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2009, 05:10:38 PM »

Offline Finkelskyhook

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I may be way off base here but the best analogy I can come up with is the Beckett trade where the Sox had to absorb Lowell's salary to get Beckett.  Sounds like the Chiefs are soing the same with Vrabel.
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Re: Cassel Traded to Chiefs
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2009, 05:22:41 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Next move I'd make is talk extension with Wilfork.  Settle some in-house stuff. 
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Re: Cassel Traded to Chiefs
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2009, 05:45:09 PM »

Offline Andy Jick

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chiefs won that one...

there will be lesser qb's taken in the first round (possibly top 10-15 picks) and the chiefs got a guy who has at least proven that he's a certifiable NFL qb.

should have waited closer to the draft as Cassel was a good chip that could have brought in more.

i also realize that many teams start blowing out their salary cap, but i still would have been more patient.

better hope tom brady is healthy or this was a DUMB move...
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Re: Cassel Traded to Chiefs
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2009, 06:20:58 PM »

Offline beantownboy171

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Quote from: Andy Jick on February 28, 2009, 05:45:09 PM
chiefs won that one...

there will be lesser qb's taken in the first round (possibly top 10-15 picks) and the chiefs got a guy who has at least proven that he's a certifiable NFL qb.

should have waited closer to the draft as Cassel was a good chip that could have brought in more.

i also realize that many teams start blowing out their salary cap, but i still would have been more patient.

better hope tom brady is healthy or this was a DUMB move...
i think they would've but they need room under the salary cap now. because by then all the desirable players would have been gone
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Re: Cassel Traded to Chiefs
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2009, 06:21:05 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Cassell and Vrabel for one second round pick?

Wow.
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Re: Cassel Traded to Chiefs
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2009, 06:50:43 PM »

Offline BillfromBoston

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Quote from: Brickowski on February 28, 2009, 05:04:09 PM
IMHO they should have gotten more for a Cassell-Vrabel package. It will be hard to get a free agent as good as Vrabel for the money Vrabel was making.

I would certainly hope they are targeting Derrick Brooks...that being said, if the team had held out for a bigger trade package they would have missed out on most of free agency this year - Cassel's contract was crippling their wiggle room.

So, lets see what NE comes up with now that they have a ton of cap space - i'm expecting some serious re-vamping of the defense...
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Re: Cassel Traded to Chiefs
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2009, 07:05:36 PM »

Offline GroverTheClover

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Quote from: Finkelskyhook on February 28, 2009, 05:10:38 PM
I may be way off base here but the best analogy I can come up with is the Beckett trade where the Sox had to absorb Lowell's salary to get Beckett.  Sounds like the Chiefs are soing the same with Vrabel.

I can't help but root for Cassell to succeed in KC now. How's the KC O line? Does he have a chance?
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