the problem BBall is that your opinion that PJ was a below average player for us is largely contradicted by experts all over the country.
maybe you have the straight scoop here and everybody else is wrong. I actually hope you're right because then it shouldn't matter too much not having him back this year (or someone who brings to the table the qualities that i believe he did).
anyway, just out of curiosity, as i'm not a huge stats guy, is there a source to check "opps PER" for the playoffs?
the gross +/- stat seems so dependent on the other players that it's hard to gauge individual performance off of that.
To answer your question, there is a source to check opponents PER for the playoffs. Here is the link for the Celtics last playoffs: http://www.82games.com/0708/playoffs/0708BOS.HTM
That link points out that according to opponent's Production (a variation of PER) Brown was by FAR the worst player on the Celtics in last year's playoffs. Opponent's PER isn't a very good stat, because it isn't very good at isolating good team defense from good individual defense. But for Brown to be SO bad has some significance, even in a flawed measure.
Similarly, Brown and Baby were battling neck-and-neck for worst on-court/off-court +/- in the playoffs, far and away beyond the next worst Celtic (who, by the way, was Posey). Again, there are flaws in any stat, and one of the misleading things here is that most of the time Brown/Baby were in the game in place of KG (just like Posey was often in in place of Pierce), so of course the team would generally be better with them off the court since that generally corresponds with the times that the 2 best players were on the court. On the other hand, the fact that Brown was so much worse than Powe (who also got quite a few minutes with similar teammates) is another indication to me that on the whole he wasn't as effective as his reputation suggests.
As Budweiser pointed out, many (both here and in the media) are making their judgments on Brown's effectiveness based upon a few of his highlight plays that stood out and not as much upon the less spectacular areas where he frankly wasn't what he used to be. Brown had the vet mindset and toughness to be effective in certain key times when I wouldn't have trusted Powe or Baby, but I think his value would have been less this year on a team where everyone has championship experience after having been through several postseason wars.
Instead, this year where the big man rotation lacks is that there just wasn't enough length and diversity. Powe and Baby are both essentially 6-7/6-8 power forwards that are good rebounders and nifty offensive players in the paint. And that is effective against many teams, when used in conjunction with the other team strengths. But against certain teams, or when Garnett is unavailable, neither Powe or Baby could perform the needed functions. They absolutely aren't long enough to effectively face a Lakers team where everyone is 6-10, long and athletic. They absolutely can't shoot well enough to spread the floor against good teams when KG isn't available, which led directly to the recent Lakers/Jazz losses once KG was gone and Pierce kept driving/kicking to Baby who couldn't knock down the shots.
This year, Moore's skillsets are IMO more needed than Brown's. He really is a mobile, hustle help defender. He really can knock down a jumper when left wide open. In the times I've seen him (mostly against KG), he really has shown the toughness to not back down and to perform under pressure. Simmons uses the term "homeless man's" to describe a much worse facsimile of a player...well, whatever the step below homeless man is, that's what Moore is to Garnett. He's a blind homeless man's version of Garnett, able to perform at a 9th-man level some of the things that Garnett does at a superstar level...and really, our bench needed that. I would have preferred Joe Smith (who has the same positives, but more-so), but I definitely think Moore gives our bench something that it lacked and helps seal up the glaring need this team had for another capable big man.
well if you're right, drza, then we should be fine. I hope you are.
the difference i would say is that PJ was really the 7th man....and you are replacing a 7th man with a 9th man...
personally, i feel like players that don't play tough get exposed in the playoffs. Hopefully, Moore is up to the challenge.
You're right in that I think where we differ is PJ's role. The way Doc used his bench in last season's playoffs wasn't conducive, IMO, to having 7th or 9th men. There were basically a top-6 who were going to play every game, then a bottom 6 that he played at need based on matchups.
If anything, I'd say Posey was the 6th man, the PG was the 7th man (made up of some combo of House and Cassell) because it was responsible for generating offense in the second unit, the big men were the 8th/9th men (some combo of Brown/Baby/Powe) because they were primarily there just to spell the starters/play tough/not be a negative, and Allen was a 10th man because he hardly ever played.
My memories of Brown last season were that he was generally pretty bad physically, but that he made the most of what he could do and found ways to help the team where he could. But he was too slow to make consistently great rotations and he wasn't athletic enough to do much on the glass. He was able to hit some big shots, able to use some vet tricks and toughness to make himself a defensive irritant at times, and his last 2 minutes against the Cavs in Game 7 kept the postseason alive. But defensively and overall impact-wise, I think Brown was much more replaceable than his reputation seems to suggest.
Topic: Moore: good defender and shot blocker? (Read 51720 times)