Author Topic: AInge needs to Act  (Read 24328 times)

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Re: AInge needs to Act
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2009, 05:29:52 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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If no Pargo, I think option #3 is Antoine Walker.  He'd provide veteran leadership, outside shooting, and give this team the ability to play small ball from time to time.  He's better than Scal in EVERY respect and as we've seen in the last 2 weeks, we've really missed the little that Scal does provide.  Imagine if we replaced that with someone who was better than Scal and had that Championship experience?  Walker is a fine #3 option if we can't find anything better.

Except, of course, Scal has contributed to an NBA team this season, and Antoine hasn't.  That should tell you something about how NBA GMs see Antoine's potential contribution.

I was an Antoine fan, and I'd rather see him here than POB, simply because I like Antoine better.  However, in terms of useful contributions, I'm not sure what Antoine has to offer.

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Re: AInge needs to Act
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2009, 05:31:15 PM »

Offline winsomme

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last year boston swept the spurs, lakers and split with the cavs....right now they are 1-4 vs the teams that can get to the finals.....2 straight losses at home and they have struggled against those other contenders....poor defense over the last 8 games and the have lost 2 of those...the bench is either hot or ice cold...not consistent. this boston team as it is can't win the title. they don't have a legit point off the bench nor do they have any length....not trying to be a neg. poster but i just don't see it.....and now kobe gets the flu....seems we can only help the cavs with **** poor loses and getting the best player they will see at home the flu...

words like can't should be used very carefully - though you do qualify it with if the c's don't make a move, but still - this team has had two ridiculously long winning streaks this season, and yes in the regular season they lost to some very good teams, but they've also beat some very good teams - remember last year when everyone was about to give up on the c's after dropping the games in Atlanta in the playoffs, and look at what happened.  In a narrow perspective, this season looks bad, if we look at essentially 3 or 4 games, but look at the big picture - the celtics are a contender regardless, and until someone uncrowns them, we shouldn't say they can't win the title...imho

 i basically agree with what you are saying here, there in no need for dire statements. Barring a major injury, we are going to be contenders right to the end. but we need to start thinking about the home court advantage a little here.

CLE is not going away, so every loss hurts in that respect. and we are starting to be in danger of not only losing HC for the ECF, but also for the semis...

Re: AInge needs to Act
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2009, 05:36:30 PM »

Offline cornbreadsmart

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antoine is not a leader. yelling encouragement at guys while you yourself are launching up bad shots is not showing leadership. antoine walker provides outside shooting. antoine walker DOES NOT provide outside MAKING.

Re: AInge needs to Act
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2009, 05:40:00 PM »

Offline SalmonAndMashedPotatoes

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If no Pargo, I think option #3 is Antoine Walker.  He'd provide veteran leadership, outside shooting, and give this team the ability to play small ball from time to time.  He's better than Scal in EVERY respect and as we've seen in the last 2 weeks, we've really missed the little that Scal does provide.  Imagine if we replaced that with someone who was better than Scal and had that Championship experience?  Walker is a fine #3 option if we can't find anything better.

Except, of course, Scal has contributed to an NBA team this season, and Antoine hasn't.  That should tell you something about how NBA GMs see Antoine's potential contribution.

I was an Antoine fan, and I'd rather see him here than POB, simply because I like Antoine better.  However, in terms of useful contributions, I'm not sure what Antoine has to offer.

Well, that argument works both ways.  Scal could have easily been cut in training camp and not been signed by any other team and we could be thinking the same things about him.  That said, I'd definitely have to have Antoine in for a workout to make sure he's at least in playing shape, but beyond that he's a no-brainer.  Scal would be a rotation-level player if he did one thing consistently--rebound.  He never has and that's why he's always been in and out of the lineup over the course of his career.  Antoine can rebound and he'd give us a legitimate small ball lineup.  

All this argument aside, I don't think Ainge is going to even think of signing Antoine unless there's a major injury in the front court.  So, Pargo remains the best, lowest cost option to improve the bench, assuming PJ doesn't want to come back.
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Re: AInge needs to Act
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2009, 06:03:14 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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well the lakers bench today showed that they are pretty darn good. i hate LA but they stepped up big vs the cavs...we need to have a bench that can do that.

Re: AInge needs to Act
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2009, 06:06:40 PM »

Offline cornbreadsmart

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scal is definitely better than antoine at this point in my opinion. i don't care for scal really because he does'nt work hard in the offseason but he's probably in better shape than toine now. having said that, if scal is one of our rotation players vs. the cavs or lakers (if we can make it that far) that is NOT  a good thing. i would love if both scal and tony allen see little to no action. does'nt look like i'm gonna get my wish.oh wait. tony is better than posey. he said so himself.

Re: AInge needs to Act
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2009, 06:54:16 PM »

Offline Jon

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scal is definitely better than antoine at this point in my opinion. i don't care for scal really because he does'nt work hard in the offseason but he's probably in better shape than toine now. having said that, if scal is one of our rotation players vs. the cavs or lakers (if we can make it that far) that is NOT  a good thing. i would love if both scal and tony allen see little to no action. does'nt look like i'm gonna get my wish.oh wait. tony is better than posey. he said so himself.

Posey really came to mind today.  Unlike last year, where I was confident with Posey on the court at any point in the game, I was cringing with Tony on the court with 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter. 

Re: AInge needs to Act
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2009, 06:56:03 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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PJ brown came to mind too...i wish boston had a kurt thomas type guy that was physical

Re: AInge needs to Act
« Reply #53 on: February 08, 2009, 06:56:52 PM »

Offline BigAlTheFuture

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PJ brown came to mind too...i wish boston had a kurt thomas type guy that was physical

We're going to miss him come playoff time.
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Re: AInge needs to Act
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2009, 07:03:50 PM »

Offline cordobes

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If no Pargo, I think option #3 is Antoine Walker.  He'd provide veteran leadership, outside shooting, and give this team the ability to play small ball from time to time.  He's better than Scal in EVERY respect and as we've seen in the last 2 weeks, we've really missed the little that Scal does provide.  Imagine if we replaced that with someone who was better than Scal and had that Championship experience?  Walker is a fine #3 option if we can't find anything better.

Except, of course, Scal has contributed to an NBA team this season, and Antoine hasn't.  That should tell you something about how NBA GMs see Antoine's potential contribution.

I was an Antoine fan, and I'd rather see him here than POB, simply because I like Antoine better.  However, in terms of useful contributions, I'm not sure what Antoine has to offer.

Well, that argument works both ways.  Scal could have easily been cut in training camp and not been signed by any other team and we could be thinking the same things about him.  That said, I'd definitely have to have Antoine in for a workout to make sure he's at least in playing shape, but beyond that he's a no-brainer.  Scal would be a rotation-level player if he did one thing consistently--rebound.  He never has and that's why he's always been in and out of the lineup over the course of his career.  Antoine can rebound and he'd give us a legitimate small ball lineup.  

All this argument aside, I don't think Ainge is going to even think of signing Antoine unless there's a major injury in the front court.  So, Pargo remains the best, lowest cost option to improve the bench, assuming PJ doesn't want to come back.

Pargo just signed a contract with Oly a couple of weeks ago. They surely aren't releasing him from that contract and I'm fairly certain he's not interested in being released anyway.

Plus, I know you have some peculiar opinions on basketball players, but Pargo would be, IMO, a bad fit. He's another highly unreliable player, who can singlehandedly make you lose a playoffs game. Just ask the Hornets. House is a better version of Pargo. Pargo is more versatile, can create shots and plays better defence, but he's also more mistaken prone and he likes to play heroics. We already have Tony Allen as a player who isn't intelligent enough to understand his limitations. I guess you like that kind of players - to the point you guaranteed that we're better with Tony Allen than we would be with Posey (improved defence, better offence, etc.) - but I personally believe some reliability is a fundamental trait of winning basketball. Players who can be so extremely horrific as Tony Allen and Pargo are often dangerous to their own teams. Anyway, it doesn't matter: Pargo is not a FA and he won't be anytime soon.

scal is definitely better than antoine at this point in my opinion. i don't care for scal really because he does'nt work hard in the offseason but he's probably in better shape than toine now. having said that, if scal is one of our rotation players vs. the cavs or lakers (if we can make it that far) that is NOT  a good thing.

I agree - Scal is better than Toine (and it's not even close at this point of their careers) and if he's part of our rotation coming the playoffs, that means some trouble.

Re: AInge needs to Act
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2009, 07:08:42 PM »

Offline cordobes

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As for Delfino, isn't he under contract in Russia?  I don't think he'd have much incentive to come back for the money that we could offer him.

I think he would. His team would release him and he wants to get out of there. What I could see happening is Colangelo matching our offer.

Yeah, regardless of why, I don't think our $2.3 million could get it done.

I'm fairly certain Colangelo's bosses wouldn't allow him to go over the tax to sign Delfino though. Would he be able to make a trade to clear the space?

Re: AInge needs to Act
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2009, 07:10:21 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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is bonzi wells still out there?

Re: AInge needs to Act
« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2009, 07:11:09 PM »

Offline BballTim

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If no Pargo, I think option #3 is Antoine Walker.  He'd provide veteran leadership, outside shooting, and give this team the ability to play small ball from time to time.  He's better than Scal in EVERY respect and as we've seen in the last 2 weeks, we've really missed the little that Scal does provide.  Imagine if we replaced that with someone who was better than Scal and had that Championship experience?  Walker is a fine #3 option if we can't find anything better.

Except, of course, Scal has contributed to an NBA team this season, and Antoine hasn't.  That should tell you something about how NBA GMs see Antoine's potential contribution.

I was an Antoine fan, and I'd rather see him here than POB, simply because I like Antoine better.  However, in terms of useful contributions, I'm not sure what Antoine has to offer.

  Without having seen Antoine play in a while I'll wager that Scal's defense is much better.

Re: AInge needs to Act
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2009, 08:00:47 PM »

Offline SalmonAndMashedPotatoes

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If no Pargo, I think option #3 is Antoine Walker.  He'd provide veteran leadership, outside shooting, and give this team the ability to play small ball from time to time.  He's better than Scal in EVERY respect and as we've seen in the last 2 weeks, we've really missed the little that Scal does provide.  Imagine if we replaced that with someone who was better than Scal and had that Championship experience?  Walker is a fine #3 option if we can't find anything better.

Except, of course, Scal has contributed to an NBA team this season, and Antoine hasn't.  That should tell you something about how NBA GMs see Antoine's potential contribution.

I was an Antoine fan, and I'd rather see him here than POB, simply because I like Antoine better.  However, in terms of useful contributions, I'm not sure what Antoine has to offer.

Well, that argument works both ways.  Scal could have easily been cut in training camp and not been signed by any other team and we could be thinking the same things about him.  That said, I'd definitely have to have Antoine in for a workout to make sure he's at least in playing shape, but beyond that he's a no-brainer.  Scal would be a rotation-level player if he did one thing consistently--rebound.  He never has and that's why he's always been in and out of the lineup over the course of his career.  Antoine can rebound and he'd give us a legitimate small ball lineup.  

All this argument aside, I don't think Ainge is going to even think of signing Antoine unless there's a major injury in the front court.  So, Pargo remains the best, lowest cost option to improve the bench, assuming PJ doesn't want to come back.

Pargo just signed a contract with Oly a couple of weeks ago. They surely aren't releasing him from that contract and I'm fairly certain he's not interested in being released anyway.

Plus, I know you have some peculiar opinions on basketball players, but Pargo would be, IMO, a bad fit. He's another highly unreliable player, who can singlehandedly make you lose a playoffs game. Just ask the Hornets. House is a better version of Pargo. Pargo is more versatile, can create shots and plays better defence, but he's also more mistaken prone and he likes to play heroics. We already have Tony Allen as a player who isn't intelligent enough to understand his limitations. I guess you like that kind of players - to the point you guaranteed that we're better with Tony Allen than we would be with Posey (improved defence, better offence, etc.) - but I personally believe some reliability is a fundamental trait of winning basketball. Players who can be so extremely horrific as Tony Allen and Pargo are often dangerous to their own teams. Anyway, it doesn't matter: Pargo is not a FA and he won't be anytime soon.

TA has had an up-and-down year, spraining the ankle and coming back too soon and then spraining it again.  But he's back on the upswing.  The real problem with him is that he's playing with Eddie House at point guard.  A guy like Posey was better suited to play with Eddie House because you had to guard him on the perimeter.  But put a bad-dribbling, no passing short point guard together with a guy whose entire game is premised on getting to the rim...well, we know what happens, you just pressure House, back off TA, clog the lane, and the offense is gummed up.  No ball movement, bad possessions, and desperation shots as the shot clock is expiring.  TA is a better player than Posey, but put him with a bad point guard and his limitations are exposed.  TA's been the Cs best defender (not today perhaps) at least if you go by PER against.  And if you want to compare him head-to-head with Posey, remember that TA's got the better PER (13.02 to 12.77).  Not that you care about stats :)  And most importantly, TA came at a bargain rate and Posey didn't.  Never forget about the money component when comparing those two guys. We're severely cramped by what we can do by virtue of the salary of the big 3.

Similarly to TA, Eddie House's limitations are highlighted when you ask him to play point.  We really need Gabe back in the lineup or we need Cassell to start playing.  The TA/House backcourt is a bad mixture. 

Cordobes, you made a good point on Pargo, but I just assumed that if we really wanted him we could buy out his contract.  Admittedly, I'm not sure if that works under the salary cap. 

I'm also not sure how you can say House is better than Pargo.  Maybe it's just me, but I prefer players who can actually play their positions.  Pargo is an actual point guard, a better defender, dribbler, penetrator, and scorer.  House shoots 3s better, that's about it. Also, don't underrate Pargo's ability to come up big in the playoffs.  He's a big game player.  House is awesome at hitting 3s after the game's been decided....but throughout his career he's usually come up small in the big games.  But the worse thing about House is that you need to prop him up with a point guard (and a big point at that) to make him successful. 
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Re: AInge needs to Act
« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2009, 08:48:12 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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We need Robert Horry, Stephon Marbury, P.J. Brown, Ricky Davis, Antoine Walker and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.