Doc Is Not a Good Coach / Why Big Baby in OT (merged)

[Redz]

fact #1: powe is shooting 50% & 4.1 rebounds in 15.3 minutes

fact #2: davis is shooting 40.6% & 3.5 rebounds in 18 minutes

Since Jan.1

GP:  Powe 18  Baby 18
PTS: Powe 4.2 Baby 7.2
FG%: Powe .434 Baby .454
FT%: Powe .698 Baby .811
RPG: Powe 4.6 Baby 4.3
MIN: Powe 15.0 Baby 20.9

The difference in FG% is a bit more shocking when you think of the range of Powe's shots.  He's missing shots from inside the paint.  There's no way Leon should shoot that low a percentage for any stretch.  He shot 57% from the field last year, and is still at 50% for this season despite his recent dropoff.

Last night was the best game Leon has played in quite some time, and I'm happy to see it, but Big Baby has been outplaying him for a while now.  Powe has shown propensity to look lost out there. Baby has shown steady improvement and has been attacking loose balls and rebounds on both sides of the floor.

thanks for the stats Redz, but for me it still is not a "who is playing better" question.

I know that the Powe v. BBD debate is a long-standing one, but i think it is more complicated because they do different things - not hugely different, but different enough that it really does come down to matchups and schemes, etc...

BBD has been developing the shot that was being left open by LA and that is why he was in there....would i rather have had Pose in there? sure. but that's not an option this year.

the BBD sub didn't really work because we lost the game, but i don't see the argument behind it being an obvious coaching mistake.

FT shooting (thanks for the stat) is another reason...

I posted the stats merely to point out that season long stats don't tell the whole story or make an irrefutable argument as to which "facts" determine who should be playing. 

[winsomme]

fact #1: powe is shooting 50% & 4.1 rebounds in 15.3 minutes

fact #2: davis is shooting 40.6% & 3.5 rebounds in 18 minutes

Since Jan.1

GP:  Powe 18  Baby 18
PTS: Powe 4.2 Baby 7.2
FG%: Powe .434 Baby .454
FT%: Powe .698 Baby .811
RPG: Powe 4.6 Baby 4.3
MIN: Powe 15.0 Baby 20.9

The difference in FG% is a bit more shocking when you think of the range of Powe's shots.  He's missing shots from inside the paint.  There's no way Leon should shoot that low a percentage for any stretch.  He shot 57% from the field last year, and is still at 50% for this season despite his recent dropoff.

Last night was the best game Leon has played in quite some time, and I'm happy to see it, but Big Baby has been outplaying him for a while now.  Powe has shown propensity to look lost out there. Baby has shown steady improvement and has been attacking loose balls and rebounds on both sides of the floor.

thanks for the stats Redz, but for me it still is not a "who is playing better" question.

I know that the Powe v. BBD debate is a long-standing one, but i think it is more complicated because they do different things - not hugely different, but different enough that it really does come down to matchups and schemes, etc...

BBD has been developing the shot that was being left open by LA and that is why he was in there....would i rather have had Pose in there? sure. but that's not an option this year.

the BBD sub didn't really work because we lost the game, but i don't see the argument behind it being an obvious coaching mistake.

FT shooting (thanks for the stat) is another reason...

I posted the stats merely to point out that season long stats don't tell the whole story or make an irrefutable argument as to which "facts" determine who should be playing. 

yeah, i'm totally with you on that....BBD has definitely been playing better of late as those stats support...

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

Blame PJ 

Why isnt this guy coming back? he has a chance to help us repeat, I have no understanding as to why he retired when he was part of last years team and could help us repeat... dont get it, just dontttt gettt it..

We have alot of glaring weaknesses..no point guard beyond rondo...not enough bigs with actual size...turn the ball over constantly...rondo cant shoot, etc
also, why was it our guys that were nervous last night? we're the [dang] champs, why play nervous? why have no confidence in your jumper? you beat this team in the finals, wake up already

[Brickowski]

All teams have weaknesses.  That's what happens in a league with a salary cap, particulary on a team where three players earn 60 million and the other 12 players earn 15 million. 

Even in leagues without an effective cap, teams like the Yankees still have weaknesses (their outfield stinks, for starters).

BBD shot poorly and his bad shooting certainly contributed to the loss.  But otherwise he played ok.  The shots he took were good shots, except for the last one, and his floor game was decent.

If BBD were as good as some folks here seem to insist he must be, he would be starting somewhere and making 10 million a year.

Pierce and Ray Allen, each of whom earns roughly 40 times what BBD makes, had their chances to win the game too, and didn't.

[moiso]

Davis has been hitting the open shot but remember he is still like a rookie and can't hit those shots in clutch situations yet.

Powe had the hot hand and you leave him out there

I think Doc is pretty good, but also if House is having one of his "can't miss" games, i'm not sure why Doc didn't ride him a bit more.

[crownsy]

Davis has been hitting the open shot but remember he is still like a rookie and can't hit those shots in clutch situations yet.

Powe had the hot hand and you leave him out there

I think Doc is pretty good, but also if House is having one of his "can't miss" games, i'm not sure why Doc didn't ride him a bit more.

what would he have played in the OT?

SG with ray as the SF and paul as a 4?

or do you want to sit rondo, which with KG already out would have hurt our defense much more than eddie helped.

It wasen't feasable to play eddie in the OT. Leon you can argue though.

[moiso]

I'm not just talking about ot.  He played 20minutes the entire game and was 4-6 from 3.  Ray played 46minutes.

[crownsy]

I'm not just talking about ot.  He played 20minutes the entire game and was 4-6 from 3.  Ray played 46minutes.

you really think you want to cut rays minutes at Sg for Eddie last night?

Lets put aside the fact that ray played pretty well, and just look at it defensivly.

I'm sure kobe would have been on board with this plan, in fact, he would have had a joygasm right at center court. and you couldnt even argue the switch to start, since if you had eddie in and swapped pierce to cover kobe pre fourth, eddie would have to defend ariza or walton, who would have taken him to the rim every play.

Eddie's only minutes availble last night due to matchups were time when kobe was on the bench at the 2 or back up PG minutes to spell rondo, and thats what he got.

also, 20 minutes is a pretty big chunk for a bench player.

One of the problems (for us) with the lakers is that we have no true back up 3, so you have to play paul and ray a ton because they have so much size. Eddie is many things, a good defender when his man is bigger than him is not one of them.

I have really zero problem with last nights loss, (except the crappy quality of the officals) 2 great teams went at it, one got 2 clutch FT's out of a 60% shooter and held on. I take nothign away from it except that the celtics and lakers are the class of thier conferances and are very close to each other talent wise. and i knew that anyway soo..

[rutzan]

if it took putting pp at the 4 to keep eddie at the 2...

you do it...

this was the perfect oppty to try small ball...

everyone wants to say go with bbd because of his month in jan...

well...40% is 40%...no matter how you slice it...

eddie has been lights out...

so it was either go with bbd's 40%...

or eddie's incredible hot hand the last week or so...

that is a no brainer to me...

bbd's 40% vs eddie's incredible hot hand...

you take the matchups to them...

not the other way around...

we let dr. phil dictate the matchups to us...

[crownsy]

if it took putting pp at the 4 to keep eddie at the 2...

you do it...

this was the perfect oppty to try small ball...

everyone wants to say go with bbd because of his month in jan...

well...40% is 40%...no matter how you slice it...

eddie has been lights out...

so it was either go with bbd's 40%...

or eddie's incredible hot hand the last week or so...

that is a no brainer to me...

bbd's 40% vs eddie's incredible hot hand...

you take the matchups to them...

not the other way around...

we let dr. phil dictate the matchups to us...

thats ludicrisly small ball, and you don't address the defensive side of the ball at all.

your lineup would be

1.rondo
2.house
3.ray
4.paul
5.perk


the lakers arent going to play small against that, why should they bother? paul isn't quick enough running the floor to make them swap at the four, and odom can get out to the three point line. they would have run

1. fish
2. kobe <<<<<<< destroys eddie
3. ariza/walton <<<<<<< To big for ray
4. Odom<<<<< to big for pierce
5. gasol

that creates 3 huge matchup problems to let eddie shoot a bit. not intersted. The minute KG fould out, we absolutly had to play baby or leon, which negates any reasonable spot for house, sice paul and ray have to stay on the floor to provide scoring.

[rutzan]

coaching is about dictating the matchups...

not letting the other team dictate to you...

we either put powe at the 4...

or pp at the 4 and eddie at the 2...

we were afraid of the matchup so we put bbd at the 4...

we let them dictate to us...

it is that simple...

or, you could have even tried TA...i'm afraid to say that...and then put some full court pressure...

putting bbd at the 4 was the easy way out...

[rutzan]

we were afraid of their offense...

so we tried to match up with them defensively...

we should have taken it to them offensively and made them afraid of our offense and make them match up to us...

this only underscores our need for a true big with length...

[crownsy]

coaching is about dictating the matchups...

not letting the other team dictate to you...

we either put powe at the 4...

or pp at the 4 and eddie at the 2...

we were afraid of the matchup so we put bbd at the 4...

we let them dictate to us...

it is that simple...

or, you could have even tried TA...i'm afraid to say that...and then put some full court pressure...

putting bbd at the 4 was the easy way out...

why is leon, who isnt a good defender and cant create his own shot/pass a better option for us at the 4 and why on earth do the lakers care if its him or BBD vs lamar?? he's a much better player than either of them.

you say "you don't let them dictate the matchups, you dictate the matchups to them" but without KG, thats impossable.

Your proposed lineup doesnt scare them. at all.

also, you cant put leon/bbd at the four in the scenario you want to do (having house in) without sitting paul or ray, both of whom are much, much, much better than eddie house. 

they would have no reason to change thier strategy in either case anyway.

In order to get a team to change its lineup around, I.e "dictate the matchups" to them, you need a lineup they will have trouble dealing with and will have to adjust to.

Without KG, we don't have that, just like if they had lost gasol/ kobe, they wouldnt have one to scare us with.

Dicatating the matchups is based on having better player matchups that the other team ahs to adjust to, which is impossable to do when your 1A/1B player has fouled out.

[nickagneta]

coaching is about dictating the matchups...

not letting the other team dictate to you...

we either put powe at the 4...

or pp at the 4 and eddie at the 2...

we were afraid of the matchup so we put bbd at the 4...

we let them dictate to us...

it is that simple...

or, you could have even tried TA...i'm afraid to say that...and then put some full court pressure...

putting bbd at the 4 was the easy way out...

How exactly do you know what Doc was afraid of and what he wasn't? Just by his selection of the personnel on the floor? I would counter that Doc wasn't afraid of anything and just felt the five guys he out there was who he thought could get the job done.

There's a lot of micro-analyzing going on in this thread and the other but at times it comes down to execution both on our part and on the part of the Lakers. Give the Lakers credit. They shut down this team when it matter most during regulation and during the overtime. The Celtics didn't respond with good offensive execution against their very good defensive execution.

We can question the play calling all day long but sometimes players just have to execute and make open shots and play intelligently. None of that happened to much in the last minute of the game and the OT.

[rutzan]

let's keep it real simple...

powe outplayed bbd last night...

that is an undisputable fact...

forget everything else...

no one can deny that...

from there...common sense and logic dictate the appropiate response...

it is that simple...

40% is 40%...fact...

1 for 8 is 1 for 8...fact...