When the team loses you hate doc but when they win you like him?

[nickagneta]

you can't have x's and o's set in stone. As the game develops your strategy has to also. The problem with doc is that he is not keen on adapting to anything.

But see this just isn't true.  Doc is constantly making changes and adjustments. 

Well said.

The entire premise of this thread leaves me shaking my head.

First, last year: If you've ever coached the game, you understand that Doc's mission last year was to blend a battalion of new faces together. Going into the season, I thought it was possible it would take at least two years to accomplish that. Instead, it resulted in a title - and getting all those new faces on the same page is a huge accomplishment.

This year, his hands have been tied from the beginning. He has the league's best starting 5 - and no one to go to on the bench for help when one of those starters go down, go flat, etc.

I know Doc gets a ton of grief for not playing individual posters' favorite kids or players a lot, but that's not his job. His job is to win, and 38-9 with this bench is remarkable.

This guy's a good ball coach. Period.

TP4U Coach for once again giving us a real perspective of what a coach looks at. No one has even mentioned the bringing together of so many new faces and melding them into a team so quickly.

Here's the breakdown:

Returning players:
Paul Pierce  - played 47 games @ 37 MPG in 06-07
Tony Allen  - played 33 games @ 24 MPG in 06-07
Rajon Rondo  - played 78 games @ 23.5 MPG in 06-07
Leon Powe  - played 63 games @ 11.4 MPG in 06-07
Kendrick Perkins  - played 72 games at 22 MPG in 06-07
Brian Scalabrine  - played 54 games at 19 MPG in 06-07

New Players:
Kevin Garnett  - played in Minnesota
Ray Allen  - played in Seattle
James Posey  - played in Miami
Eddie House  - played in New Jersey
Glen Davis  - rookie
Gabe Pruitt - rookie
Scot Pollard - played in Cleveland
P J Brown - played in Chicago
Sam Cassell - played in Los Angeles C.

9 out of last season's players were not on the team the year before and of the players that returned only one, Rondo, didn't miss significant time or played everyday, and only one, Pierce, played starter type minutes. Two of the returning players were rookies and four of them had ages of 25, 21, 22, and 23 when the season started.

To take so many unknown and unfamiliar faces and in less than a year in the NBA together, blend them into one of the most dominating teams in NBA history is an incredible accomplishment that only the truly best of coaches could have performed.

Doc was unreal and deserves the credit and respect and admiration of all Celtic fans for what he did with this team since gathering them together in Europe for the first time. He has since won 104 of 127 regular season games. Check it out, only Hall of Fame type coaches have ever had winning spans like that.

[BudweiserCeltic]

TP4U Coach for once again giving us a real perspective of what a coach looks at. No one has even mentioned the bringing together of so many new faces and melding them into a team so quickly.

I think we did plenty of that last season. Well A LOT of it actually, but people were more insterested in the Big 3's ammount of minutes played.

[nickagneta]

TP4U Coach for once again giving us a real perspective of what a coach looks at. No one has even mentioned the bringing together of so many new faces and melding them into a team so quickly.

I think we did plenty of that last season. Well A LOT of it actually, but people were more insterested in the Big 3's ammount of minutes played.

I meant in this thread Budweiser, I thought that was understood.

[BudweiserCeltic]

TP4U Coach for once again giving us a real perspective of what a coach looks at. No one has even mentioned the bringing together of so many new faces and melding them into a team so quickly.

I think we did plenty of that last season. Well A LOT of it actually, but people were more insterested in the Big 3's ammount of minutes played.

I meant in this thread Budweiser, I thought that was understood.

I know what you meant nick. I'm just saying.

[winsomme]

To also add another point why is below par compared to some other coaches, on some other thread i stated that mchale is a better coach than rivers. Everyone pretty much disagreed with that notion. So i provided the ultimate example that if you replace rivers with mchale right now the celts would be as good of a team if not better however if you replaced mchale with rivers, the wolves would stink again.

Well, you're clearly oozing with unequivocal logic, and clearly you've done a good job of using actual facts when creating this thread.

In all seriousness, what do you want to discuss since your post is pretty much a complete fabrication of what is actually going on.

yea this is the problem tri, that anolgy makes no sense on so many levels it's hard to take it seriously. For one, it assumes the ability to be nostrdumous. You ASSUME that this team would be just as good with mchale, but thats not a fact, for all you know they would stink. You can be like;

"The sky is red, and if you don't think it is to, clearly your the one with a problem, not me. everyone knows thats the way it is." as a base for a discussion.

I'm really not trying to be a jerk, its just that alot of your posts depend on total agreement with a flawed or illogical premise.

We have two recent examples that coaching matters even with big time talent.

the Lakers adding Phil and DET losing Larry....

Coaching matters. Players matter. They both matter. That's how i see it anyway.

[twinbree]

I like Doc all the time. He gets the best out of his players and he's a defensive minded coach. I appreciate that even more in the big 3 era because the Celtics could have become just another big trade - disappointing results team.

[Finkelskyhook]

The team is playing great.  The Coaches deserves credit.  The players deserve credit.  Management deserves credit.

Danny idiot-proofed and through Thibodeau, Rivers-proofed the roster.  Rivers wouldn't know a defensive concept if it bit him.  That was horribly obvious through his pre-Thibodeau years coaching.  Through hiring Thibodeau, Danny put Rivers in a position to coach to his strengths...Coaching the offensive side of the court.

[crownsy]

The team is playing great.  The Coaches deserves credit.  The players deserve credit.  Management deserves credit.

Danny idiot-proofed and through Thibodeau, Rivers-proofed the roster.  Rivers wouldn't know a defensive concept if it bit him.  That was horribly obvious through his pre-Thibodeau years coaching.  Through hiring Thibodeau, Danny put Rivers in a position to coach to his strengths...Coaching the offensive side of the court.

right, im sure getting the defensive player of the year, a known lock down defender, and something to play for out of 3 HOF vets is EXACTLY the same tools as geraled green, bassy, wally, and mark blount when it comes to implementing your defensive scheme.

Its totally fair to judge how a defensive scheme is implmented with 10 new players, 2 of which are known for playing great defense as opposed to a bunch of kids who STILL can't play defense on there new teams (except D west, and even he plays more hustle D than skill).



honestly people, as i said, i'd probley rate doc a C+ to B- as a coach, he above average to me, but not great, but do you guys think about these statements before you post them?

[Birdbrain]

you can't have x's and o's set in stone. As the game develops your strategy has to also. The problem with doc is that he is not keen on adapting to anything.

But see this just isn't true.  Doc is constantly making changes and adjustments. 

Well said.

The entire premise of this thread leaves me shaking my head.

First, last year: If you've ever coached the game, you understand that Doc's mission last year was to blend a battalion of new faces together. Going into the season, I thought it was possible it would take at least two years to accomplish that. Instead, it resulted in a title - and getting all those new faces on the same page is a huge accomplishment.

This year, his hands have been tied from the beginning. He has the league's best starting 5 - and no one to go to on the bench for help when one of those starters go down, go flat, etc.

I know Doc gets a ton of grief for not playing individual posters' favorite kids or players a lot, but that's not his job. His job is to win, and 38-9 with this bench is remarkable.

This guy's a good ball coach. Period.

Doc's great but the bench is much better than you believe.  His hands aren't that tied IMO.  He's got some pretty good resources at this disposal.

[Birdbrain]

TP4U Coach for once again giving us a real perspective of what a coach looks at. No one has even mentioned the bringing together of so many new faces and melding them into a team so quickly.

I think we did plenty of that last season. Well A LOT of it actually, but people were more insterested in the Big 3's ammount of minutes played.

Exactly the point was made ad nauseum to be honest.  But like you said there were bigger concerns for some.  This is Doc's greatest attribute.

[BballTim]

The team is playing great.  The Coaches deserves credit.  The players deserve credit.  Management deserves credit.

Danny idiot-proofed and through Thibodeau, Rivers-proofed the roster.  Rivers wouldn't know a defensive concept if it bit him.  That was horribly obvious through his pre-Thibodeau years coaching.  Through hiring Thibodeau, Danny put Rivers in a position to coach to his strengths...Coaching the offensive side of the court.

  Considering our frontcourt was Al, Gomes and an injured Perk and the backcourt contained healthy amounts of Gerald, Alan Ray and Bassy I'd say that having coached that group to the middle of the pack defensively was at least as big an accomplishment as what happened last year under Thibs.

[Tr1boy]

you can't have x's and o's set in stone. As the game develops your strategy has to also. The problem with doc is that he is not keen on adapting to anything.

But see this just isn't true.  Doc is constantly making changes and adjustments. 

Well said.

The entire premise of this thread leaves me shaking my head.

First, last year: If you've ever coached the game, you understand that Doc's mission last year was to blend a battalion of new faces together. Going into the season, I thought it was possible it would take at least two years to accomplish that. Instead, it resulted in a title - and getting all those new faces on the same page is a huge accomplishment.

This year, his hands have been tied from the beginning. He has the league's best starting 5 - and no one to go to on the bench for help when one of those starters go down, go flat, etc.

I know Doc gets a ton of grief for not playing individual posters' favorite kids or players a lot, but that's not his job. His job is to win, and 38-9 with this bench is remarkable.

This guy's a good ball coach. Period.

Doc's great but the bench is much better than you believe.  His hands aren't that tied IMO.  He's got some pretty good resources at this disposal.

absolutely. i seriously thought like everyone our bench stinked.  But a simple mistake as to change up 4 starters with 4 subs wasn't realized. Playing scal with the starters makes the team and scal more effective wasn't realized.

I compare cleveland or lakers bench vs ours and other than a legit center we do compare well with them. Who knows knowing doc he is underutilizing pob also.

Its just that jackson and clevelands coach are much smarter in terms of how to mix and match and get alot more from their benches

I got an idea just like thibadeau orchestrates the defense design we should get a special assistant who does the same with stuff like mix and matching players on the court and how mins they should each be allocated as the game goes on. Then doc can have all the time to laugh with the guys

[nickagneta]

you can't have x's and o's set in stone. As the game develops your strategy has to also. The problem with doc is that he is not keen on adapting to anything.

But see this just isn't true.  Doc is constantly making changes and adjustments. 

Well said.

The entire premise of this thread leaves me shaking my head.

First, last year: If you've ever coached the game, you understand that Doc's mission last year was to blend a battalion of new faces together. Going into the season, I thought it was possible it would take at least two years to accomplish that. Instead, it resulted in a title - and getting all those new faces on the same page is a huge accomplishment.

This year, his hands have been tied from the beginning. He has the league's best starting 5 - and no one to go to on the bench for help when one of those starters go down, go flat, etc.

I know Doc gets a ton of grief for not playing individual posters' favorite kids or players a lot, but that's not his job. His job is to win, and 38-9 with this bench is remarkable.

This guy's a good ball coach. Period.

Doc's great but the bench is much better than you believe.  His hands aren't that tied IMO.  He's got some pretty good resources at this disposal.

absolutely. i seriously thought like everyone our bench stinked.  But a simple mistake as to change up 4 starters with 4 subs wasn't realized. Playing scal with the starters makes the team and scal more effective wasn't realized.

I compare cleveland or lakers bench vs ours and other than a legit center we do compare well with them. Who knows knowing doc he is underutilizing pob also.

Its just that jackson and clevelands coach are much smarter in terms of how to mix and match and get alot more from their benches

I got an idea just like thibadeau orchestrates the defense design we should get a special assistant who does the same with stuff like mix and matching players on the court and how mins they should each be allocated as the game goes on. Then doc can have all the time to laugh with the guys

I already provided proof that your comment that Thibodeau orchestrates the defense as being wwrong and yet you continue with this insistence that the defense is Thibodeau's.

And as for your Scal starting revelation, you do realize that he never played a true center when he was starting. Perk and Baby played Howard and Shaq in Florida. Scal played center against Bargnani and guarded the Nets PF as KG guarded Lopez. Scal starting worked because he's a good team defender and the Celtics were playing peimeter shooting teams with no inside presence. Otherwise he would have been exposed and the loss of Perk felt much more.

[Casperian]

I like Doc, and I want no other coach at the moment, but just to play devil´s advocate here, I´ll tell you what an aspiring NBA scout wrote about Doc on another messageboard (can´t find it now). He said Doc would be the epitome for a coach without style. What he meant was that Doc has a playbook that consists of plays from all over the basketball world, but he doesn´t have his own philosophy. He also partially attributed the Celtics` high amount of turnovers to this fact. He said Doc just picks the cherries, but doesn´t know where to spit the stones.

Regarding nickagneta´s post of the Ainge Interview, I have to say that I can´t trust Danny 100% here. Ainge is known for hiding his true opinions and motivations. Maybe he wanted to take the spotlight off of Tom T, because he fears that other teams might take a long look at our D guru when they search for a new Headcoach. IIRC, Tom T coached 14 "top 10 defenses" in the last 15 years, so I´d say he is a big time contributor to what we have going here.

[Tr1boy]

you can't have x's and o's set in stone. As the game develops your strategy has to also. The problem with doc is that he is not keen on adapting to anything.

But see this just isn't true.  Doc is constantly making changes and adjustments. 

Well said.

The entire premise of this thread leaves me shaking my head.

First, last year: If you've ever coached the game, you understand that Doc's mission last year was to blend a battalion of new faces together. Going into the season, I thought it was possible it would take at least two years to accomplish that. Instead, it resulted in a title - and getting all those new faces on the same page is a huge accomplishment.

This year, his hands have been tied from the beginning. He has the league's best starting 5 - and no one to go to on the bench for help when one of those starters go down, go flat, etc.

I know Doc gets a ton of grief for not playing individual posters' favorite kids or players a lot, but that's not his job. His job is to win, and 38-9 with this bench is remarkable.

This guy's a good ball coach. Period.

Doc's great but the bench is much better than you believe.  His hands aren't that tied IMO.  He's got some pretty good resources at this disposal.

absolutely. i seriously thought like everyone our bench stinked.  But a simple mistake as to change up 4 starters with 4 subs wasn't realized. Playing scal with the starters makes the team and scal more effective wasn't realized.

I compare cleveland or lakers bench vs ours and other than a legit center we do compare well with them. Who knows knowing doc he is underutilizing pob also.

Its just that jackson and clevelands coach are much smarter in terms of how to mix and match and get alot more from their benches

I got an idea just like thibadeau orchestrates the defense design we should get a special assistant who does the same with stuff like mix and matching players on the court and how mins they should each be allocated as the game goes on. Then doc can have all the time to laugh with the guys

I already provided proof that your comment that Thibodeau orchestrates the defense as being wwrong and yet you continue with this insistence that the defense is Thibodeau's.

And as for your Scal starting revelation, you do realize that he never played a true center when he was starting. Perk and Baby played Howard and Shaq in Florida. Scal played center against Bargnani and guarded the Nets PF as KG guarded Lopez. Scal starting worked because he's a good team defender and the Celtics were playing peimeter shooting teams with no inside presence. Otherwise he would have been exposed and the loss of Perk felt much more.

dude no offense but your proof doesn't work. Thibs is a defensive genius. He helped van gundy and the rockets to be one of the best defensive teams a couple of years ago and the results also mirror with the current team.

Doc even admitted that he lets thibs do his thing for the defense design

lastly think about the magic and celts before the big three. They never played defense that way under doc. You can fight me on this if you want but the truth is obvious

Remember doc is just a regular coach who has good relation skills but he is not a super coach some of you think he is.