Hollinger picks Vince Carter over Pierce or Allen

[GroverTheClover]

We all love Paul Pierce. We all love to say Vince Carter is a loser etc. But Carter had advanced exactly as far as Paul did before Paul had two Hall-of-Famers added to his team......

...Now, how many threads were there this season about Paul's lackadaisical D and his below average shooting nights?

Carter had Jason Kidd, 5th all time in assists, 3rd in triple doubles, and a future hall of famer. He also had Richard Jefferson, who may not be a Hall of Famer, but is an all-star caliber player. There was also a pretty strong supporting cast at one point.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that particular VC team got the finals, and then got swacked by the Lakers. Like really, really swacked. Swept!

If you gave Paul Pierce that team, there is no way he gets swept. Its not something you can prove with numbers, but its something you just know in your heart to be true. Pierce has, and always will be the better player. His team is also like 20 games ahead in the standings.

VC wasn't on the Nets when the made the Finals. Kidd led the Nets to the Finals with RJ, K-Mart, Van Horn and Kittles.

[GroverTheClover]

Vince was the first swingman during the 2000s to be crowned as the next MJ. Where was Paul Pierce? O yeah he was under the wing of Antonie Walker, aha!

That's completely irrelevant to who is the better player. Harold Miner was called Baby Jordan. He was a pretty terrible basketball player. There is little correlation to the quality of the player and what the media labels them as.

[wdleehi]

Vince was the first swingman during the 2000s to be crowned as the next MJ. Where was Paul Pierce? O yeah he was under the wing of Antonie Walker, aha!

So does that mean he is also the 1st swingman that failed to live up to that billing?

[Toine43]

2000 Vinsanity > Any version of Paul Pierce

Despite your young age and obvious 29 team-bias I thought you knew something about basketball?

My bad I forgot to add that you were 5 in 2000.

I'm sure your grasp of the game then was superb though; no doubt.

I was 9 in 2000. Do I make these types of posts? It's not his age that makes him unqualified to comment on this, it's him.

[jackson_34]

Vince was the first swingman during the 2000s to be crowned as the next MJ. Where was Paul Pierce? O yeah he was under the wing of Antonie Walker, aha!

What's with all of these statements JR? I hate saying it man, but of all the posts I've read of your's seem to be just baiting other members into getting riled up.

I mean obviously everyone is entitled to an opinion, but It just seems none of your posts reflect the celtics in a positive light, what gives?

[Toine43]

Vince was the first swingman during the 2000s to be crowned as the next MJ. Where was Paul Pierce? O yeah he was under the wing of Antonie Walker, aha!

I vote Glen Davis for the 2017 All-Star game because he was the first LSU big man in the 2000s to be crowned the next Shaquille O'Neal.

[BigAlTheFuture]

Vince was the first swingman during the 2000s to be crowned as the next MJ. Where was Paul Pierce? O yeah he was under the wing of Antonie Walker, aha!

That doesn't mean anything. Gerald Green was suppose to be the next Tracy McGrady..

[Rondo_is_better]

Vince was the first swingman during the 2000s to be crowned as the next MJ. Where was Paul Pierce? O yeah he was under the wing of Antonie Walker, aha!

What's with all of these statements JR? I hate saying it man, but of all the posts I've read of your's seem to be just baiting other members into getting riled up.

I mean obviously everyone is entitled to an opinion, but It just seems none of your posts reflect the celtics in a positive light, what gives?

If everything he says reflects the Celtics in a poor light, then I guess he doesn't like the Celtics.

[housecall]

Vince was the first swingman during the 2000s to be crowned as the next MJ. Where was Paul Pierce? O yeah he was under the wing of Antonie Walker, aha!

Vince is not even a "poorman" version of MJ.Probably would have been a better Harlem Globetrotter,a lot of dunking for the children(fans).lol

[Fan from VT]

Look, let's be perfectly honest here. How many of you guys thought that the Nets would be anywhere near the East playoff race before the season started? Probably a very small number.

We all love Paul Pierce. We all love to say Vince Carter is a loser etc. But Carter had advanced exactly as far as Paul did before Paul had two Hall-of-Famers added to his team.

If people aren't aware of how well Carter has played this year, they are simply letting their preconceived notions make up their opinions for them. The truth is - Vince Carter has played at an All-Star level and deserves to be there. Now, how many threads were there this season about Paul's lackadaisical D and his below average shooting nights?

Carter deserves to be there over Paul. Over Ray? Not so much, but definitely over Paul.

Very good post. The easiest thing to do as a sports fan is pile on the hyperbole... "winner." "loser." "choker." "intangibles." "makes others better." It takes honesty to admit that before last season, the vast majority of fans regarded Pierce in the same light that Boston fans regard Carter. Teammates make a huge difference in basketball; leading a team to a championship is one of the most overrated barometer's of an individual player's skill. I'm not a particular fan of Carter's, but I believe that his greatest failing is that he didn't live up to the hype heaped upon him. He's a 99/100 scouted talent that had a 90/100 career...had he been scouted at 80-85/100, played a 90/100 career, and been on a title team, his reputation and legacy would be completely different. So he couldn't live up to Jordan...so what.


I do have to say, if the Cavs use Wally's contract to grab Carter, I have a terrible feeling in my belly that we will all be eating crow about Carter's inability to win a title.

[celticinorlando]

last time i saw vince play he was getting benched vs the celtics due to lack of effort...that rigt there separates him and PP....PP balls with sprained knees

[Schupac]

It seems like every few days I see a new thread about how everyone disagrees with something Hollinger wrote.  Are we surprised anymore?  His statistical analysis is apparently as inexplicable as the fan voting has been for years (how many times has Vinsanity started in the all-star game, even once when injured the first half of the season?).

I don't think Hollinger is stupid, but I think he is a stat geek who almost always misses the big picture.  Oh, and he's not too fun to read.  So move on!  Somebody start some more pro/con Glen Davis threads!

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

It seems like every few days I see a new thread about how everyone disagrees with something Hollinger wrote.  Are we surprised anymore?  His statistical analysis is apparently as inexplicable as the fan voting has been for years (how many times has Vinsanity started in the all-star game, even once when injured the first half of the season?).

Much agreed... The only thing that confuses me more then the constant insistence on bashing Hollinger is the amount of energy CB wastes worrying about the All-Star Game. Just watch the end of the playoffs... There's all the stars I need. As for the Stat Guy, we should all know what to expect by now.

I'd take no Celtic All-Stars and a title over 5 All-Stars and a second round exit.

[NoraG1]

last time i saw vince play he was getting benched vs the celtics due to lack of effort...that rigt there separates him and PP....PP balls with sprained knees

That by itself puts Pierce ahead of Carter.

[Brendan]

I love the people who disagree with Hollinger and their counter argument amounts to: "Hollinger is stupid, PER doesn't mean a thing. He doesn't see the big picture."

1. He doesn't base his analysis purely on PER - he does use large gaps in PER to distinguish, but when its close, he does weight other factors.

2. He's using a method approach, it makes sense to challenge his method not the outcome. If PER said Pierce, Allen, and Rondo should all be reserves, no one would complain with the method.

3. Vince Carter is a heck of a player, all the complaints people on this board have about him, roughly align with what critics said about Pierce pre last year.

I would LOVE to see Rondo running point with Wade, James, KG, and Howard. That's a 5 that would actually defend in the All Star game, and would throw down ridiculous alley-oops.