Surprising Ainge didn't take either Chalmers or Jordan with the 30th pick...

[BillfromBoston]

Heh, lots of people wanted Chris Douglas-Roberts, to who I was frontally opposed; where are you now??

Chalmers I'd have liked and was rooting for him, but it's not like we missed a very big thing. Jordan I didn't like and while he's showing some nice tools, it's still to early to be sure he can make a NBA career.

In hindsight, the better pick with the 30th would have been Luc Richard Mbah a Moute. I knew it!

This statement entirely supposes that Ainge was looking to maximize his immediate return, which I don't think he was by evidence of his selections.

Ainge picked two players with superior athletic gifts to Mbah Moute, who has been solid, but remains a player who would have to become EXTREMELY skilled in order to match either Walker or Giddens upside.

At pick 30 and with the FA market in front of them, I don't think Ainge was looking to do anything more than take the players he felt had the best chance of being high-end steals while still having a solid chance to be at minimum rotation level players.

Mbah Moute is a Gomes type pick...Giddens was a home run type pick...there are years and years to go before we see the final outcome of this decision. I am sure that Mbah Moute would get less PT on this team than he does on Milwaukee, but he would have had a good chance to get some minutes at the 3.

[BillfromBoston]

I remain surprised me that Danny didn't take either a 1 or a 5 with the Giddens pick, considering the guaranteed money invloved. Jordan's game needs a lot of work but the potential is clearly there (20 boards last night). Chalmers has played well and could be a more tradable asset. Just odd to take a nondescript wing with a shaky background from a weak conference when two guys at more valuable positions were out there...

yes, jordan is raw. yes, chalmers is limited. but anyone else have any thoughts here?

I don't think Chalmers or Jordan would have gotten any burn beyond garbage minutes on this team to date.  I think the jury is still out on Giddens and Walker. Given DA's track record for selected quality late in the first round, and in the 2nd round, we have to give him more time to assess whether his picks were good or not.  He is not infallable (he underestimated the value of Brandon Roy, probably his biggest mistake to date), but his winners far outweigh his losers.

i don't think ainge regrets the roy trade at all. no roy trade, no theo ratliff, no kg.

and i agree 1) the jury is still out on giddens, and 2) neither guy would be getting any burn on the team. i'm looking at them as assets, which we have few of. let's face it -- reasonably athletic slashing 2s are easy to come by, and aren't worth much. not saying giddens isn't going to be a good player, but clearly no one wants him in trade. chalmers and jordan would certainly be more attractive to a team looking to make a deal.

While it is true we got Theo the Rat in that trade, I am not certain that we would not have gotten KG anyway by throwing in Raef's salary in the deal. Yes, his salary was for another season, but it is not like the T Wolves were trying to free cap space right away to sign a big FA. You may be right. But I don't think Danny was thinking of getting KG when he made the Sebastian Telfair trade. He probably thought that Telfair was going to be a better PG than Rondo or Roy, which is the major reason he made the trade. I remember watching a DA interview when the Celtics were visiting Portland during Roy's rookie season. Ainge called Roy a "nice" player, but did not think he had all star potential.  He underestimated him. So did a few other teams that selected inferior players ahead of him, such as Minn (Randy Foye) and Charlotte (Adam Morrissey) and Chicago (Tyrus Thomas) and Toronto (Bargnani) and ATL (Shelden Williams--ugh). Only Aldridge at this point is obviously worthy of being selected ahead of Roy, and that is probably a toss-up, depending on positional need.

Ainge directly stated at the time of the move that he thought Telfair was a quality prospect but that some trades are made for reasons other than the players coming in.

This was his response amidst heavy scrutiny about trading the pick. He also explained that he liked Roy a lot but the team had a wealth of wings already - no one looks at Roy as a pure PG and Ainge was angling for PG, not SG...

Ainge ended up with Telfair and Rondo in addition to assets needed to make a major trade. While Roy would have been "neat" I think the decision was sound - you can't factor in all the variables and Roy's rise to stardom is a statistical anomoly based off the rate of growth and level of impact relative to his spot in the draft.

[Tr1boy]

not taking jordan was a mistake imo. The guy has the potential to be a poor mans version of d howard

[cordobes]

Heh, lots of people wanted Chris Douglas-Roberts, to who I was frontally opposed; where are you now??

Chalmers I'd have liked and was rooting for him, but it's not like we missed a very big thing. Jordan I didn't like and while he's showing some nice tools, it's still to early to be sure he can make a NBA career.

In hindsight, the better pick with the 30th would have been Luc Richard Mbah a Moute. I knew it!

This statement entirely supposes that Ainge was looking to maximize his immediate return, which I don't think he was by evidence of his selections.

Ainge picked two players with superior athletic gifts to Mbah Moute, who has been solid, but remains a player who would have to become EXTREMELY skilled in order to match either Walker or Giddens upside.

At pick 30 and with the FA market in front of them, I don't think Ainge was looking to do anything more than take the players he felt had the best chance of being high-end steals while still having a solid chance to be at minimum rotation level players.

Mbah Moute is a Gomes type pick...Giddens was a home run type pick...there are years and years to go before we see the final outcome of this decision. I am sure that Mbah Moute would get less PT on this team than he does on Milwaukee, but he would have had a good chance to get some minutes at the 3.

I'm fully convinced you've never seen Mbah a Moute playing. The idea that Gomes could guard players like Kobe or Wade is laughable. The problem with Gomes is that he's a tweener, without a position, that isn't fast enough to defend the perimeter. LRMAM is already one of the bests perimeter defenders in the league.

[CoachBo]

TP, Cordobes. LRMBAM would be the PERFECT answer to the perimeter defense we've lost off the bench.

Not to mention a pick worthy of all the rationalized credit that Danny gets on this board for cooking up, uh, long-term picks.

I think "long-term" on this board is the same thing as pick and pray.

[CoachBo]

I was very surprised he passed on Chalmers.  He's already better than Pruitt.

while i agree chalmers would have been a nice pick, i was more suprised he passed on jordan. it's a given that a late 1st rounder on a championship team will see limited time. why not take a raw but very talented, very big guy who could be legit? what's giddens gonna be? dahntey jones? tony allen?  maybe better? even if he is still seems wasteful...

 

You can do the same, if not more lengthy list (and im sure someone will, im at work so i cant)Of raw talented bigs taken late in the first that "just needed time" who are washing cars at the moment. I think "talented big guys" are more of a risk than gaurds. Gaurds seem to hang around forever and be parts of trades at the very least. It seems teams are way less willing to take a flyer on a late round big guy than a guard, but thats just my impression.

Its a crap shoot.

 i think calling it a flip of the coin is overstating it. yes, there are plenty of guys taken strictly on size. jordan played solidly at a real hoops school for a year. his skill level, coordination and athletic talent were clear. his motivation was and is the question

my point is: Sene, he wasn't.

even more to the point then, dont we have a project big who's raw talent inst in question, but his work ethic and learning ablity is?

who are we talking about, O'Bryant? the scrub we signed off the street? let's not do that to Jordan, that's not nice. Jordan is obviously far more talented as both a scorer and a rebounder. and he doesn't move at the speed of mud. 

POB's work ethic isn't in quesiton, it's decidedly non-existant. has the guy ever seen a weightroom in his life?

There isn't a single thing about Paddy O'Bust that isn't subject to question in the world of reality.

Comparing him to Jordan is outrageous.

[gar]

I was very surprised he passed on Chalmers.  He's already better than Pruitt.

while i agree chalmers would have been a nice pick, i was more suprised he passed on jordan. it's a given that a late 1st rounder on a championship team will see limited time. why not take a raw but very talented, very big guy who could be legit? what's giddens gonna be? dahntey jones? tony allen?  maybe better? even if he is still seems wasteful...

 

You can do the same, if not more lengthy list (and im sure someone will, im at work so i cant)Of raw talented bigs taken late in the first that "just needed time" who are washing cars at the moment. I think "talented big guys" are more of a risk than gaurds. Gaurds seem to hang around forever and be parts of trades at the very least. It seems teams are way less willing to take a flyer on a late round big guy than a guard, but thats just my impression.

Its a crap shoot.

 i think calling it a flip of the coin is overstating it. yes, there are plenty of guys taken strictly on size. jordan played solidly at a real hoops school for a year. his skill level, coordination and athletic talent were clear. his motivation was and is the question

my point is: Sene, he wasn't.

even more to the point then, dont we have a project big who's raw talent inst in question, but his work ethic and learning ablity is?

who are we talking about, O'Bryant? the scrub we signed off the street? let's not do that to Jordan, that's not nice. Jordan is obviously far more talented as both a scorer and a rebounder. and he doesn't move at the speed of mud. 

POB's work ethic isn't in quesiton, it's decidedly non-existant. has the guy ever seen a weightroom in his life?

Chalk one up for overstatement. POB is skiny, but is a hell of an athelete for a 7 footer. He was standing behind someone in an locker room interview and the kid is an athelete. Anyone who thinks the Celtics would tolerate anything like the kind of things that are thrown around here about POB, does not realize what it takes to be a pro athlete at this level. They went with the more seasoned played in POB and were hedging their bets with Giddens and Walker. I wanted Jordan and Chalmers; but can see the logic. Pruitt is bigger and a better shooter; but got to love Chalmer's game. Rap on Chalmers was that he was too small and could not shoot; but he has proven people wrong. The program and the experience a player has can be huge.

[crownsy]

not taking jordan was a mistake imo. The guy has the potential to be a poor mans version of d howard

with the reports coming out about his work ethic and lack of commitment (all questions during the draft) I'd say he's more on track to be the poor mans POB.

[JBcat]

Well I remember Ainge saying prior to the draft we need to get more athletic on the wings against the Altanta's of the world and it could be as simple as that why he drafted Giddens and Walker.  Maybe he foreseen having trouble re-signing Posey and wanted some insurance at that spot as well. 

[moiso]

not taking jordan was a mistake imo. The guy has the potential to be a poor mans version of d howard

with the reports coming out about his work ethic and lack of commitment (all questions during the draft) I'd say he's more on track to be the poor mans POB.

The reports suggested he'd be a POB but he has already shown that he's far superior.  That being said, yeah if he's that lazy he will never reach his potential.
I agree Mbah a Moute would have been perfect.  He would have been like a Posey without the 3pt shooting.

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

Well I remember Ainge saying prior to the draft we need to get more athletic on the wings against the Altanta's of the world and it could be as simple as that why he drafted Giddens and Walker.  Maybe he foreseen having trouble re-signing Posey and wanted some insurance at that spot as well. 

Posey wouldn't have been terribly long term anyway though... I saw the Giddens and Walker selections as a serious lack of faith long term in Tony Allen.

[ssspence]

I was very surprised he passed on Chalmers.  He's already better than Pruitt.

while i agree chalmers would have been a nice pick, i was more suprised he passed on jordan. it's a given that a late 1st rounder on a championship team will see limited time. why not take a raw but very talented, very big guy who could be legit? what's giddens gonna be? dahntey jones? tony allen?  maybe better? even if he is still seems wasteful...

 

You can do the same, if not more lengthy list (and im sure someone will, im at work so i cant)Of raw talented bigs taken late in the first that "just needed time" who are washing cars at the moment. I think "talented big guys" are more of a risk than gaurds. Gaurds seem to hang around forever and be parts of trades at the very least. It seems teams are way less willing to take a flyer on a late round big guy than a guard, but thats just my impression.

Its a crap shoot.

 i think calling it a flip of the coin is overstating it. yes, there are plenty of guys taken strictly on size. jordan played solidly at a real hoops school for a year. his skill level, coordination and athletic talent were clear. his motivation was and is the question

my point is: Sene, he wasn't.

even more to the point then, dont we have a project big who's raw talent inst in question, but his work ethic and learning ablity is?

who are we talking about, O'Bryant? the scrub we signed off the street? let's not do that to Jordan, that's not nice. Jordan is obviously far more talented as both a scorer and a rebounder. and he doesn't move at the speed of mud. 

POB's work ethic isn't in quesiton, it's decidedly non-existant. has the guy ever seen a weightroom in his life?

Chalk one up for overstatement. POB is skiny, but is a hell of an athelete for a 7 footer. He was standing behind someone in an locker room interview and the kid is an athelete. Anyone who thinks the Celtics would tolerate anything like the kind of things that are thrown around here about POB, does not realize what it takes to be a pro athlete at this level. They went with the more seasoned played in POB and were hedging their bets with Giddens and Walker. I wanted Jordan and Chalmers; but can see the logic. Pruitt is bigger and a better shooter; but got to love Chalmer's game. Rap on Chalmers was that he was too small and could not shoot; but he has proven people wrong. The program and the experience a player has can be huge.

when did the words "POB" and "athlete" come together in my post? they didn't. debating his athleticism is pointless. he's lazy, he's not good, and he's not going to be on the team very long.

let's make this simple -- poll the community at Cs blog. poll the league's GMs. who would you rather have: POB or Jordan? case closed.

i'd imagine a majority would take Jordan over the combo over POB and Giddens as well. i certainly would.

[ssspence]

not taking jordan was a mistake imo. The guy has the potential to be a poor mans version of d howard

with the reports coming out about his work ethic and lack of commitment (all questions during the draft) I'd say he's more on track to be the poor mans POB.

you can't be a poor man's version of a guy whose never gotten off the bench in his entire career. have you actually seen jordan play? either at the college level or as a pro?

[crownsy]

not taking jordan was a mistake imo. The guy has the potential to be a poor mans version of d howard

with the reports coming out about his work ethic and lack of commitment (all questions during the draft) I'd say he's more on track to be the poor mans POB.

you can't be a poor man's version of a guy whose never gotten off the bench in his entire career. have you actually seen jordan play? either at the college level or as a pro?

yes, ive seen him this year, no in college. I evidently haven't come away as gag gag over the moon for him as some have. He seems like a nice project for a 2nd rounder, but so do walker and giddeons, but if we had drafted him, i think he'd be doing exactly what POB, walker, and pruitt are  doing....watching while people moan that doc won't play young guys.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Heh, lots of people wanted Chris Douglas-Roberts, to who I was frontally opposed; where are you now??

Chalmers I'd have liked and was rooting for him, but it's not like we missed a very big thing. Jordan I didn't like and while he's showing some nice tools, it's still to early to be sure he can make a NBA career.

In hindsight, the better pick with the 30th would have been Luc Richard Mbah a Moute. I knew it!

This statement entirely supposes that Ainge was looking to maximize his immediate return, which I don't think he was by evidence of his selections.

Ainge picked two players with superior athletic gifts to Mbah Moute, who has been solid, but remains a player who would have to become EXTREMELY skilled in order to match either Walker or Giddens upside.

At pick 30 and with the FA market in front of them, I don't think Ainge was looking to do anything more than take the players he felt had the best chance of being high-end steals while still having a solid chance to be at minimum rotation level players.

Mbah Moute is a Gomes type pick...Giddens was a home run type pick...there are years and years to go before we see the final outcome of this decision. I am sure that Mbah Moute would get less PT on this team than he does on Milwaukee, but he would have had a good chance to get some minutes at the 3.

I'm fully convinced you've never seen Mbah a Moute playing. The idea that Gomes could guard players like Kobe or Wade is laughable. The problem with Gomes is that he's a tweener, without a position, that isn't fast enough to defend the perimeter. LRMAM is already one of the bests perimeter defenders in the league.

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you misunderstood what the comparison between Gomes and Mbah was about.