Sorry Baby But I like the big Lug.

[nickagneta]

Great game by Baby. If he plays the rest of the season like he has the last two plus weeks and Danny might not need to add a bench payer for the playoffs.

Baby's numbers for the last 9 games:

19 MPG
7.5 PPG
4.1 RPG
1 STPG
0.7 APG
17-20 FTM-FTA 85%
25-57 FGM-FGA 43.8% - Of course, this isn't great, but take away one game where he was 1-12 and you are seeing more of what he has been about shooting lately with a 24-45 FGA-FGM 53.3%

Add to that that his defense has been steady good and one can see why Baby is getting minutes. His defense tonight was excellent.

9 games, and you want to throw one out to show how he is really playing? C'Mon. The only number that jumps out is the free throw shooting. Those are numbers Perk and Powe should covet.

No......... All I want to say is that to get a more accurate idea of how he has been shooting over the last two weeks one should be aware that the 43.% number really isn't indicative of the way he has been shooting. He had the worse shooting night of his young career in that game. As a better gauge as to how well he has been shooting over the last two weeks, the 53.3% number is more accurate.

Also, his Steals number of 1.00 average in 19 minutes is pretty impressive for a big guy as it comes out to 2.5+ per 48 minutes which would be third on the team if he could keep that pace.

Are his numbers All-Star numbers, not even close. But for a guy coming off the bench and giving you what he does with all the little things that never find their way to the box score(defense of big men, good rotation defense, excellent boxing out skills, high energy, tough screens, smart passing, good spacing and confidence), that's [dang] good.

[Fafnir]

Great game by Baby. If he plays the rest of the season like he has the last two plus weeks and Danny might not need to add a bench payer for the playoffs.

Baby's numbers for the last 9 games:

19 MPG
7.5 PPG
4.1 RPG
1 STPG
0.7 APG
17-20 FTM-FTA 85%
25-57 FGM-FGA 43.8% - Of course, this isn't great, but take away one game where he was 1-12 and you are seeing more of what he has been about shooting lately with a 24-45 FGA-FGM 53.3%

Add to that that his defense has been steady good and one can see why Baby is getting minutes. His defense tonight was excellent.

9 games, and you want to throw one out to show how he is really playing? C'Mon. The only number that jumps out is the free throw shooting. Those are numbers Perk and Powe should covet.

No......... All I want to say is that to get a more accurate idea of how he has been shooting over the last two weeks one should be aware that the 43.% number really isn't indicative of the way he has been shooting. He had the worse shooting night of his young career in that game. As a better gauge as to how well he has been shooting over the last two weeks, the 53.3% number is more accurate.

You can't do that though. You have to include all of his games good and bad otherwise you wipe out the value of looking at the statistics.

I agree that he's been shooting well the last ten games though. Because of Baby's role for this team his shooting percentage won't be a "good" one for a big in the NBA. If he can shoot above 40% on his jumpers that will be just what we need. The key is for him to either get to the line a few times a night or get 2 or 3 easier buckets in addition to those jumpers.

[Brendan]

Great game by Baby. If he plays the rest of the season like he has the last two plus weeks and Danny might not need to add a bench payer for the playoffs.

Baby's numbers for the last 9 games:

19 MPG
7.5 PPG
4.1 RPG
1 STPG
0.7 APG
17-20 FTM-FTA 85%
25-57 FGM-FGA 43.8% - Of course, this isn't great, but take away one game where he was 1-12 and you are seeing more of what he has been about shooting lately with a 24-45 FGA-FGM 53.3%

Add to that that his defense has been steady good and one can see why Baby is getting minutes. His defense tonight was excellent.

9 games, and you want to throw one out to show how he is really playing? C'Mon. The only number that jumps out is the free throw shooting. Those are numbers Perk and Powe should covet.

No......... All I want to say is that to get a more accurate idea of how he has been shooting over the last two weeks one should be aware that the 43.% number really isn't indicative of the way he has been shooting. He had the worse shooting night of his young career in that game. As a better gauge as to how well he has been shooting over the last two weeks, the 53.3% number is more accurate.

Also, his Steals number of 1.00 average in 19 minutes is pretty impressive for a big guy as it comes out to 2.5+ per 48 minutes which would be third on the team if he could keep that pace.

Are his numbers All-Star numbers, not even close. But for a guy coming off the bench and giving you what he does with all the little things that never find their way to the box score(defense of big men, good rotation defense, excellent boxing out skills, high energy, tough screens, smart passing, good spacing and confidence), that's [dang] good.

Good point on the steals, but you are cherry picking on the shooting. Using all the numbers gives you a more precision. A big guy with a reliance on a jump shot will have bad shooting nights just like a wing. BBD can't overcome that, because he hasn't figured out how to score consistently on the inside. The 43% reflects his shooting. If you want to use a better stat use his true shooting.

UPDATE: just to make a fine point, its like if I said "well last night BBD was 6-8 throw that out and he's at 39% (just made that up, not sure what he'd really be at), which reflects his real level." I mean if you want to say that his shot has improved noticable in technique or that he's now gotten the reps - and suppose that he will play at a higher level, thats fine. I just dont like seeing stats abused.

[Fafnir]

When people criticize a bench player, it does not mean they want them to get hit by a bus on the way home, or fail out of the league.

Unless they're talking about Tony.

Baby's played well over the past two weeks.  This has been the most consistent stretch of his career, which is good to see.  I'm hopeful that he keeps it up, although his track record suggests that he won't.

When BBD plays like this, he's a very valuable player.

To be fair, he doesn't have much of a track record. He's in his second year. And just like Rondo did earlier in the season, sometimes things simply start clicking... though consistency is still always an issue.

True.  Sometimes things just click into place with young players.  I'm hoping that's the case with BBD.

Pretty much all young players are inconsistent. Baby is getting to the point where that should start to fall away. The major frustration for Tony is that he's remained inconsistent. You can't count on him to play quality minutes of any given game. I'm not as down on him as many posters are but I won't argue with them about it. They have more ammo than I do .

Hopefully BBD keeps up his growth!

[nickagneta]

The point I am trying to make that must not be sinking in with you guys is that his shooting is trending upward. Over the first 80% of the season his shooting was around 37% and his shooting on the outside around 27%. Over the last 20% of the season it has improved immensely.

This is not some player that has been in the league for years who has a track record of making a certain percentage so you count the good and the bad nights. He is a developing player trying to develop an outside shot and you need to track the trend in which his development is taking.

In that one game during the last 20% of the season he shot more shots and missed more shots than in any other game in his career. So are you telling me that if you want to track how he is developing, how he has been trending recently, that you count the worst shooting night of his career? Because having the worst shooting night of your career happens all the time??

The point I am making is that if you look at his current trend, his outside shooting is improving and if you discount the one game that he had recently that was the worst shooting game of his career because you don't have the worst shooting night of your life every week, then it's fairly obvious that he is shooting much better.

And [dang] the stats, what do your eyes tell you? His shot is much more fluid, much less hesitant. He is shooting and not aiming anymore and it is very obvious just from viewing it. And it is showing up in his overall confidence in the shot.

Baby had a horrific start to the year statistically developing that shot so looking at his yearly number isn't going to give you an idea of how he is shooting right now. My 9 game stats, which just so happen to show the last 20% of the season show a significant upward trend as does the visual observation of his game.

[wdleehi]

He is playing good now. 


Celtics needs that.



The key is to keep playing this way.  He has shown flashes before (though this is a more extended flash) 


Time for Davis to develop consistency.

[celts55]

I think that he will become more consistant as his confidence continues to grow. It only makes sense that as he plays more he will get more confident. I think a big sign of that was when the Magic had the lead down to 7 and Davis didn't hasitate at all, hitting a 15 footer. In the past, he would have been looking for someone to pass to. Personally, I like the guy's game. He seems to see the court pretty well. He gets in there and bangs with the big boys. His defense is pretty good, although he draws too many silly fouls. I don't know how good he will get, but I don't mind him as a big off the bench.
That being said, I would still like to see the Celtics get a legitimite back up center and use Davis at the 4.

[Brendan]

The point I am trying to make that must not be sinking in with you guys is that his shooting is trending upward. Over the first 80% of the season his shooting was around 37% and his shooting on the outside around 27%. Over the last 20% of the season it has improved immensely.

This is not some player that has been in the league for years who has a track record of making a certain percentage so you count the good and the bad nights. He is a developing player trying to develop an outside shot and you need to track the trend in which his development is taking.

In that one game during the last 20% of the season he shot more shots and missed more shots than in any other game in his career. So are you telling me that if you want to track how he is developing, how he has been trending recently, that you count the worst shooting night of his career? Because having the worst shooting night of your career happens all the time??

The point I am making is that if you look at his current trend, his outside shooting is improving and if you discount the one game that he had recently that was the worst shooting game of his career because you don't have the worst shooting night of your life every week, then it's fairly obvious that he is shooting much better.

And [dang] the stats, what do your eyes tell you? His shot is much more fluid, much less hesitant. He is shooting and not aiming anymore and it is very obvious just from viewing it. And it is showing up in his overall confidence in the shot.

Baby had a horrific start to the year statistically developing that shot so looking at his yearly number isn't going to give you an idea of how he is shooting right now. My 9 game stats, which just so happen to show the last 20% of the season show a significant upward trend as does the visual observation of his game.

Nick,

My point is the way you said it was asinine. You can make the following arguments effectively:

"His SP% is trending up when you look at the season in chunks of ..."

"Watching his form and confidence lately - it seems clear to me that he's now comfortable with his shot so I expect better success..."

etc.

But when you make the argument the way you originally did: "we'll drop this bad game as an outlier, and he's at x%" - its just abusing stats, and no more precise than if I dropped his best game. If you cannot understand that now - I won't be able to ever explain it to you.

As to your point, I guess I'm at a "maybe" point. We've seen many a player have a good 10 game stretch - when he does it consistently for half a season, I'll buy its a permanent change.

[ScoobyDoo]

I've always liked big Baby as a "character" mostly and as a player off and on. I kind of always like the rumbling physical play and emotion he brings. Now, he seems to be zeroing in. If this kid got really serious about his weight and trimmed about 15-20 pounds off, he'd be a real terror. He'd be much faster and a better jumper and losing only 20 pounds ona fame like his pushing 300 lbs wouldn't affect his strength at all. probably make him stronger actually.

I'm not worried about Powe though. He's a tough kid. He's not playing for a reason. His role is to rebound defend and score garbage. I think he started thinking he was a main offensive weapon on the second unit.

He's tough though, he'll figure out how to get back on the court. By doing what he's best at, all the dirty work, and letting the rest come to him... 

[Bankshot]

I've always liked big Baby as a "character" mostly and as a player off and on. I kind of always like the rumbling physical play and emotion he brings. Now, he seems to be zeroing in. If this kid got really serious about his weight and trimmed about 15-20 pounds off, he'd be a real terror. He'd be much faster and a better jumper and losing only 20 pounds ona fame like his pushing 300 lbs wouldn't affect his strength at all. probably make him stronger actually.

I'm not worried about Powe though. He's a tough kid. He's not playing for a reason. His role is to rebound defend and score garbage. I think he started thinking he was a main offensive weapon on the second unit.

He's tough though, he'll figure out how to get back on the court. By doing what he's best at, all the dirty work, and letting the rest come to him... 

I hope you're right about Powe getting his stuff together, because we might not be able to land another big and Powe and BBD firing on all cylinders would be a huge help.

[MBz]

You can't do that though. You have to include all of his games good and bad otherwise you wipe out the value of looking at the statistics.

[/quote]

You may not be able to remove it, but it does need to be noted.  It's an outlier.  His 1-12 shooting percentage of 8% is so far away from the rest of the data that although you can't technically get rid of it, all it really does it hurt the analysis of the data with out talking about it as one can tell by the huge difference in FG% with the game and without.

[winsomme]

Great game by Baby. If he plays the rest of the season like he has the last two plus weeks and Danny might not need to add a bench payer for the playoffs.

Baby's numbers for the last 9 games:

19 MPG
7.5 PPG
4.1 RPG
1 STPG
0.7 APG
17-20 FTM-FTA 85%
25-57 FGM-FGA 43.8% - Of course, this isn't great, but take away one game where he was 1-12 and you are seeing more of what he has been about shooting lately with a 24-45 FGA-FGM 53.3%

Add to that that his defense has been steady good and one can see why Baby is getting minutes. His defense tonight was excellent.

9 games, and you want to throw one out to show how he is really playing? C'Mon. The only number that jumps out is the free throw shooting. Those are numbers Perk and Powe should covet.

No......... All I want to say is that to get a more accurate idea of how he has been shooting over the last two weeks one should be aware that the 43.% number really isn't indicative of the way he has been shooting. He had the worse shooting night of his young career in that game. As a better gauge as to how well he has been shooting over the last two weeks, the 53.3% number is more accurate.

You can't do that though. You have to include all of his games good and bad otherwise you wipe out the value of looking at the statistics.

I agree that he's been shooting well the last ten games though. Because of Baby's role for this team his shooting percentage won't be a "good" one for a big in the NBA. If he can shoot above 40% on his jumpers that will be just what we need. The key is for him to either get to the line a few times a night or get 2 or 3 easier buckets in addition to those jumpers.

but if you are going to note that he has been shooting well in the last ten games, then you are just doing mentally what nick putting in print.

and the reason it makes sense to do that is that 1-12 game was just a snowball game. I mean, he missed like 4 bunnies and it started to become like a bad joke. one of them was a lay up that he couldn't decide whether to dunk it or lay it in and he did neither...

certainly 9 or 10 games is too small a sample to make a conclusive argument about his improvement as a player. but i think it is also suitably fair to say that it is a long enough stretch that it is time to take note of what he is doing out there.

let's hope it continues...

[Jon]

If Baby can keep hitting the outside jumper, he should keep playing.  As should Scal.  Leon has some good qualities, but when you couple his inability to do anything outside of 5 feet from the basket with Tony Allen and Rajon Rondo's similar deficiencies in range, and you have yourself a pretty big problem in spacing.  The more we can spread the floor (as we did last year with Posey and Brown) the better. 

[Chief]

If Baby can keep hitting the outside jumper, he should keep playing.  As should Scal.  Leon has some good qualities, but when you couple his inability to do anything outside of 5 feet from the basket with Tony Allen and Rajon Rondo's similar deficiencies in range, and you have yourself a pretty big problem in spacing.  The more we can spread the floor (as we did last year with Posey and Brown) the better. 

Leon has to learn to pass. Noone ever thinks he is going to do it, so they double without worry. It's really getting frustrating. As for Scal, I've never seen a more erratic shooter. Because of this, he too is very frustrating.

[Jon]

If Baby can keep hitting the outside jumper, he should keep playing.  As should Scal.  Leon has some good qualities, but when you couple his inability to do anything outside of 5 feet from the basket with Tony Allen and Rajon Rondo's similar deficiencies in range, and you have yourself a pretty big problem in spacing.  The more we can spread the floor (as we did last year with Posey and Brown) the better. 

Leon has to learn to pass. Noone ever thinks he is going to do it, so they double without worry. It's really getting frustrating. As for Scal, I've never seen a more erratic shooter. Because of this, he too is very frustrating.

True.  Scal is hardly good and if this bench was even halfway decent he'd never see the light of day (see last year, and the bench only was halfway decent).  But if Leon's standing at the three point line, no one thinks twice.  At least with Scal a team has to worry about it.  That opens up the floor for the more talented players out there.  Baby's starting to help in that regard too.  He'll help more if he can keep hitting that 16-18 footer.