Author Topic: Starting to warm up to POB  (Read 10253 times)

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Re: Starting to warm up to POB
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2009, 02:03:33 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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As far as the conspiracy, there IS a big one on here trying to dump on him. Usually by the same guys constantly ripping Scal no matter how well he comes out and plays.

By that definition, you are part of a conspiracy to tear down Davis.  Some of us have a different opinion on the guy than you do.  It doesn't make it a conspiracy, it just makes for good discussion.



I don't make threads specifically aimed at ripping on BBD. I have maintained since last year that I like Powe better and they basically fill the same role. The big plus with Powe over BBD is that he is committed to keeping in shape and gives it 100% off the court as well as on it. I have also made a lot of positive comments about BBD and think that if he would drop some weight he would be a very solid player. I give him props after a nice game.

That is a lot different than people on here that rip Scal and POB no matter what they do on the court. The one's that label Scal as the worst player in the NBA, and POB as just another Mark Blount. There is personal animosity towards these two for some reason and no matter what they do certain people want to rip them to shreds. THAT is a conspiracy, not good discussion.

Re: Starting to warm up to POB
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2009, 02:05:45 PM »

Offline crownsy

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As far as the conspiracy, there IS a big one on here trying to dump on him. Usually by the same guys constantly ripping Scal no matter how well he comes out and plays.

By that definition, you are part of a conspiracy to tear down Davis.  Some of us have a different opinion on the guy than you do.  It doesn't make it a conspiracy, it just makes for good discussion.



I don't make threads specifically aimed at ripping on BBD. I have maintained since last year that I like Powe better and they basically fill the same role. The big plus with Powe over BBD is that he is committed to keeping in shape and gives it 100% off the court as well as on it. I have also made a lot of positive comments about BBD and think that if he would drop some weight he would be a very solid player. I give him props after a nice game.

That is a lot different than people on here that rip Scal and POB no matter what they do on the court. The one's that label Scal as the worst player in the NBA, and POB as just another Mark Blount. There is personal animosity towards these two for some reason and no matter what they do certain people want to rip them to shreds. THAT is a conspiracy, not good discussion.

this thread started as a guy saying he was WRONG about POB and most of us praising his run in the blowout yesterday, how can this possably by labeled as "you guys rip him no matter what!!!!"

all we said was he still needs improvement, but that this was a good game for him. how is that bashing him for no reason? Am i supposed to not post about him unless its to blow lollipops where the sun don't shine?
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Starting to warm up to POB
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2009, 02:07:49 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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why would a coach comment daily on his 12th man? They don't come up in media conversations much.

I think in this case, it is what it is. a 20 year old kid who dosne't get that he has to work hard to improve yet, but probaley will as time goes on and he grows up. Which makes sense doesn't it? when i was 20, i wasen't as driven as i am now either, because the year before i was a teenager.

ahhh young crownsy, i have so much to tell you about. to warn you about... like enjoy sophmore year more, the real world sucks in 2 more years...  :P 



But that is exactly my point when you go on and on about how Doc consistently says this kid is lazy and has no heart. One comment in the course of the year about how he needs to pick up his intensity and you label the kid as lazy. Doc never used that word. No one on the team did that. I will take Doc at his word that earlier in the year he felt that he needed to pick up his intensity, but not take that and run with it making it more than it is. Doc's lack of comments since then, coupled with the additional opportunities and minutes he has been given, show me that Doc obviously is pleased with his progress. He is a talented athletic long center who gives us so much more upside than BBD purely for his stature, so it baffles me why people hate on him so much.

Re: Starting to warm up to POB
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2009, 02:16:25 PM »

Offline crownsy

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why would a coach comment daily on his 12th man? They don't come up in media conversations much.

I think in this case, it is what it is. a 20 year old kid who dosne't get that he has to work hard to improve yet, but probaley will as time goes on and he grows up. Which makes sense doesn't it? when i was 20, i wasen't as driven as i am now either, because the year before i was a teenager.

ahhh young crownsy, i have so much to tell you about. to warn you about... like enjoy sophmore year more, the real world sucks in 2 more years...  :P 



But that is exactly my point when you go on and on about how Doc consistently says this kid is lazy and has no heart. One comment in the course of the year about how he needs to pick up his intensity and you label the kid as lazy. Doc never used that word. No one on the team did that. I will take Doc at his word that earlier in the year he felt that he needed to pick up his intensity, but not take that and run with it making it more than it is. Doc's lack of comments since then, coupled with the additional opportunities and minutes he has been given, show me that Doc obviously is pleased with his progress. He is a talented athletic long center who gives us so much more upside than BBD purely for his stature, so it baffles me why people hate on him so much.

he made a comment yesterday that says POB still isn't at the level he wants. it's on the front page.

I think your kind of blowing that out of proportion that we "harp" on it. its a thing that his coaches refer too, and its something i notice with my own eyes when he gets time. He doesn't run the floor often, and he gets lost on defense.

BUT, as i said, he looked MUCH better last night, and clearly busted his tail. My first post in this thread is how he moved up some notches in my book with that run last night and i hope to see it continue, and lead to mor eminutes from him. But im not going to stop being criticle and start fawning over him because your convinced i have some irrational goal to tear the guy down. I don't.

Being criticle of a player is not an indication of irrational hatred.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 02:23:07 PM by crownsy »
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Re: Starting to warm up to POB
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2009, 02:19:55 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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As far as the conspiracy, there IS a big one on here trying to dump on him. Usually by the same guys constantly ripping Scal no matter how well he comes out and plays.

By that definition, you are part of a conspiracy to tear down Davis.  Some of us have a different opinion on the guy than you do.  It doesn't make it a conspiracy, it just makes for good discussion.



I don't make threads specifically aimed at ripping on BBD. I have maintained since last year that I like Powe better and they basically fill the same role. The big plus with Powe over BBD is that he is committed to keeping in shape and gives it 100% off the court as well as on it. I have also made a lot of positive comments about BBD and think that if he would drop some weight he would be a very solid player. I give him props after a nice game.

That is a lot different than people on here that rip Scal and POB no matter what they do on the court. The one's that label Scal as the worst player in the NBA, and POB as just another Mark Blount. There is personal animosity towards these two for some reason and no matter what they do certain people want to rip them to shreds. THAT is a conspiracy, not good discussion.

this thread started as a guy saying he was WRONG about POB and most of us praising his run in the blowout yesterday, how can this possably by labeled as "you guys rip him no matter what!!!!"

all we said was he still needs improvement, but that this was a good game for him. how is that bashing him for no reason? Am i supposed to not post about him unless its to blow lollipops where the sun don't shine?

I'm part of the conspiracy. I don't believe in Patrick O'Bryant, any more than I believe in Santa Claus. Is everyone familiar with the Blind Squirrel theory?

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Starting to warm up to POB
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2009, 02:33:24 PM »

Offline crownsy

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As far as the conspiracy, there IS a big one on here trying to dump on him. Usually by the same guys constantly ripping Scal no matter how well he comes out and plays.

By that definition, you are part of a conspiracy to tear down Davis.  Some of us have a different opinion on the guy than you do.  It doesn't make it a conspiracy, it just makes for good discussion.



I don't make threads specifically aimed at ripping on BBD. I have maintained since last year that I like Powe better and they basically fill the same role. The big plus with Powe over BBD is that he is committed to keeping in shape and gives it 100% off the court as well as on it. I have also made a lot of positive comments about BBD and think that if he would drop some weight he would be a very solid player. I give him props after a nice game.

That is a lot different than people on here that rip Scal and POB no matter what they do on the court. The one's that label Scal as the worst player in the NBA, and POB as just another Mark Blount. There is personal animosity towards these two for some reason and no matter what they do certain people want to rip them to shreds. THAT is a conspiracy, not good discussion.

this thread started as a guy saying he was WRONG about POB and most of us praising his run in the blowout yesterday, how can this possably by labeled as "you guys rip him no matter what!!!!"

all we said was he still needs improvement, but that this was a good game for him. how is that bashing him for no reason? Am i supposed to not post about him unless its to blow lollipops where the sun don't shine?

I'm part of the conspiracy. I don't believe in Patrick O'Bryant, any more than I believe in Santa Claus. Is everyone familiar with the Blind Squirrel theory?

wait wait wait.....are you implying santa isn't real?  :o
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Starting to warm up to POB
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2009, 02:55:39 PM »

Offline Danimals

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Yao Ming:
    Standing Reach: 9' 8" / 7' 5" wingspan
Patrick O'Bryant:
    Standing Reach: 9' 5" / Wingspan: 7' 5.75"
Shaquille O'Neal:
    Standing Reach: 9' 5" / Wingspan: 7' 7"
Kendrick Perkins:
    Standing Reach: 9' 4.5" / Wingspan: 7' 6.5"
Andrew Bynum:
    Standing Reach: 9' 4" / Wingspan: 7' 6"
Greg Oden:
    Standing Reach: 9' 4" / Wingspan: 7' 4.25"
Dwight Howard:
    Standing Reach: 9' 3.5" / Wingspan: 7' 4.5"

You just can't teach height. And POB has skills and potential. But it takes an tremendous effort and practice. So, I always like hearing Doc tell the media whenever a certain player is working very hard in practice. (What good would it do if Doc were to explicitly call out any player as lazy?) 

Is there ever a player who busts his ass in practice without a single player or coach praising him in the media, even in passing? Yet, we never hear this about POB, a player with skills and potential the Celtics are in dire need of developing. (If Perkins injures his shoulder in the playoffs, we are screwed.)

I really hope POB develops quickly (and does it for the Celtics). But I can't help but keep my hopes in check and remain patient whenever I read stuff like this a couple of weeks ago:

"Afterwards, KG explained that he’s sick and his leg hurts… but he’s there… in practice… and making sure guys like POB get the lessons he got when he was a young baller.

'As players we all have things to work on. Sam Mitchell and Kevin McHale taught me that when I first came into the league. Whether these guys now want it or not, I have to give it to them.

'I was eager,' he said. 'I never had a problem staying in the gym. I would always watch Michael (Jordan) and (Hakeem) Olajuwon - guys with go-to moves that I wanted to learn. I was always infatuated with how you could work on something.

'Then there’s nothing like going out and showing what you can do. I’m not Patrick O’Bryant, but I’m in here every day. If these guys want to get better, then I’m here.'"

Re: Starting to warm up to POB
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2009, 03:06:01 PM »

Offline BballTim

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As far as the conspiracy, there IS a big one on here trying to dump on him. Usually by the same guys constantly ripping Scal no matter how well he comes out and plays.

By that definition, you are part of a conspiracy to tear down Davis.  Some of us have a different opinion on the guy than you do.  It doesn't make it a conspiracy, it just makes for good discussion.



I don't make threads specifically aimed at ripping on BBD. I have maintained since last year that I like Powe better and they basically fill the same role. The big plus with Powe over BBD is that he is committed to keeping in shape and gives it 100% off the court as well as on it. I have also made a lot of positive comments about BBD and think that if he would drop some weight he would be a very solid player. I give him props after a nice game.

That is a lot different than people on here that rip Scal and POB no matter what they do on the court. The one's that label Scal as the worst player in the NBA, and POB as just another Mark Blount. There is personal animosity towards these two for some reason and no matter what they do certain people want to rip them to shreds. THAT is a conspiracy, not good discussion.

this thread started as a guy saying he was WRONG about POB and most of us praising his run in the blowout yesterday, how can this possably by labeled as "you guys rip him no matter what!!!!"

all we said was he still needs improvement, but that this was a good game for him. how is that bashing him for no reason? Am i supposed to not post about him unless its to blow lollipops where the sun don't shine?

I'm part of the conspiracy. I don't believe in Patrick O'Bryant, any more than I believe in Santa Claus. Is everyone familiar with the Blind Squirrel theory?

wait wait wait.....are you implying santa isn't real?  :o

   Really. he lost a lot of credibility with that Santa comment...

Re: Starting to warm up to POB
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2009, 03:35:49 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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What I find most interesting about Doc's latest comments pertaining to O'Bryant is the timing of the comment and something that is being overlooked within those comments.

By most accounts POB gave an okay reckoning of himself in his brief garbage time minutes against the worst scrubs a very mediocre team had to offer. That's not my account but by most he did okay, better. Well then why does Doc pull out this very obvious criticism of the kid after he just had a decentlittle outing? Is it because he wants to motivate the guy? Wouldn't throwing out a goodword about him in the media praising his play in the game be a better way of motivating him? Doesn't Doc always prasie players who have good games? So then why after what some seem to think is a good game is Doc being so highly critical?

Me, I think it's because he sees it the way I do and that POB didn't play that well the other night and/or he wants to temper the furvor that can sometimes be created when one player goes down and suddenly the media and fandom falls in love with the backup, or in this case, the backup's backup, and starts making his life miserable over stupid questions and assertions about why he isn't playing the back up. It happens all the time. Because of the timing of the comment(while Perk is hurt and out and after POB played) I think the message Doc was sending was to the media and not O'Bryant. I think he was saying "I'm not putting this kid in simply because he's the back up, the starter is hurt and because he's the biggest guy we have. So don't even bother asking e questions about him because he's not going to play."

And when of the main reasons he's not playing comes from the part of the quote I see alot of people overlooking. Namely this:

Quote
What we need him to do, we need him to do it all the time.

It's consistency. Consistency builds trust and trusting in a player that he will consistently do the right things at the right times in the right ways is what earns playing time. Doc is HUGE about this. It is why he held Gomes, Al, Perk and Rondo back. The weren't consistently doing what they were being taught and what was expected of them.

People look back and say, well if so and so didn't get hurt then Doc would never have used them. They looked good before that but Doc didn't notice. I don't buy that. Doc used them when they consistently showed him what they could and should do. Then they started getting regular minutes. With Gomes Doc had another choice and could have played Green at the position. He gave the position to Gomes because he was consistently bringing the right stuff. With Rondo that first year he had other choices. When he pulled Rondo the first time it was because he was doing what he needed to consistently. When it was obvious that Doc needed another option, Doc once again had two choices at the point and chose Rondo because of......once again.....consistency.

POB just is not doing the same things well all the time in practice, walk arounds and games over and over again. One decent game doesn't change the fact that he's not bringing it the right way all the time in every aspect that he can demonstrate to the coaching staff that he can. And that is why POB sits. He may have shown flashes and is big but flashes doesn't earn playing time in Doc's world.

Doing what you have to do and what is expected out of you over and over and over again does get you playing time. Obviously this isn't happening with O'Bryant otherwise he would be playing/

Re: Starting to warm up to POB
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2009, 03:52:18 PM »

Online Redz

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My feeling is, if the Celts have any intention of having POB be a contributor they have a golden opportunity to do so while Perk is out.  That he is still seeing garbage time only, and Scal continues to put his "undefeated as a starter" streak on the line, tells me all I need to know. 

He's not in the plans.
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Re: Starting to warm up to POB
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2009, 03:55:33 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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My feeling is, if the Celts have any intention of having POB be a contributor they have a golden opportunity to do so while Perk is out.  That he is still seeing garbage time only, and Scal continues to put his "undefeated as a starter" streak on the line, tells me all I need to know. 

He's not in the plans.

he's being treated as a rookie, he's continuing to develop and they feel that he's just not ready. just becuase he hasn't played yet doesn't mean there counting him out for the rest of the season.

Re: Starting to warm up to POB
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2009, 04:06:51 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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My feeling is, if the Celts have any intention of having POB be a contributor they have a golden opportunity to do so while Perk is out.  That he is still seeing garbage time only, and Scal continues to put his "undefeated as a starter" streak on the line, tells me all I need to know. 

He's not in the plans.

he's being treated as a rookie, he's continuing to develop and they feel that he's just not ready. just becuase he hasn't played yet doesn't mean there counting him out for the rest of the season.
Since when does Doc and Danny.....no....nevermind. Scratch that!

Since when does ANY NBA coach or front office go into the late season and playoffs giving rookies and projects meaningful playing time? Redz is right. If POB isn't playing now, he's not to be counted on this year as being able to play meaningful minutes at all this year.

It's a pipe dream at this point to think that POB will be giving anything significant to this team down the stretch and into and through the playoffs. It just doesn't work that way. As the going gets tough, NBA coaches play the players they trust and have proven can deliver.

Ask Tony Allen about this concept because even though he was a four year pro, he sat in last year's playoffs because his coach didn't trust the quality and consistency of his game. That was after Tony got consistent minutes all last year. Thinking that POB will get any minutes that help this team late this year and into the playoffs when he can't even get into blowouts after 41 games is, and I am saying this with all due respect, ludicrous.

Re: Starting to warm up to POB
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2009, 04:44:09 PM »

Offline cordobes

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How long will it take and exactly how good is he going to be by the end of the process?

I think teams either have players who are ready (or almost ready) to play and contribute on the floor; or, in the case of long-term prospects, they're expected to have a relatively high ceiling and potential. It doesn't make much sense to work for 3 years on the development of a potential backup/3rd string center.

Re: Starting to warm up to POB
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2009, 05:08:09 PM »

Offline BballTim

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My feeling is, if the Celts have any intention of having POB be a contributor they have a golden opportunity to do so while Perk is out.  That he is still seeing garbage time only, and Scal continues to put his "undefeated as a starter" streak on the line, tells me all I need to know. 

He's not in the plans.

he's being treated as a rookie, he's continuing to develop and they feel that he's just not ready. just becuase he hasn't played yet doesn't mean there counting him out for the rest of the season.
Since when does Doc and Danny.....no....nevermind. Scratch that!

Since when does ANY NBA coach or front office go into the late season and playoffs giving rookies and projects meaningful playing time? Redz is right. If POB isn't playing now, he's not to be counted on this year as being able to play meaningful minutes at all this year.

It's a pipe dream at this point to think that POB will be giving anything significant to this team down the stretch and into and through the playoffs. It just doesn't work that way. As the going gets tough, NBA coaches play the players they trust and have proven can deliver.

Ask Tony Allen about this concept because even though he was a four year pro, he sat in last year's playoffs because his coach didn't trust the quality and consistency of his game. That was after Tony got consistent minutes all last year. Thinking that POB will get any minutes that help this team late this year and into the playoffs when he can't even get into blowouts after 41 games is, and I am saying this with all due respect, ludicrous.

  I'll disagree with a lot of this, but I'm not endorsing POB. Without having many names, I don't think it's rare at all for rookies or young players who haven't done much besides garbage time by January to play a significant role late in the season. Off the top of my head Ryan Gomes comes to mind. I'm sure there are plenty of others. Also, the reason that Tony sat was that any minutes he got would have come from James Posey, who played pretty well in the playoffs. BBD didn't get minutes in the playoffs because Doc trusted the consistency of his game. It was because others were having issues.

  Also, in terms of Doc criticizing POB after a decent outing instead of praising him, that's just Doc's style. Just ask Big Al, who spent much of his sophomore season looking over at the bench every time he made a mistake in case Doc was going to yank him out of the game and put in the consistent, quality players that he trusted: Blount and Raef.
 

Re: Starting to warm up to POB
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2009, 05:21:21 PM »

Offline footey

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Several points:

1. I find it very amuzing how much POB has grabbed attention on this board, both good and bad. He certainly gets the Gerald Green Fan Obsession Award for the 08/09 season, in a clear runaway. Love it.

2. I think that Danny would be very reluctant to give this kid up except in a meaningful trade where we get value in return.  Love him or hate him, no one can deny that POB has a combination of size and athleticism that is not easy to come by.  He is very cheap to carry on the books.  He is still very young.  Big men are notorious for developing more slowly.

3.  I think Doc has pretty much given up on him.  Doc is very focused on winning 18 this year, and does not have the same interest as Danny in building for the future. POB's contributions, if they are to come, are not likely being made this season.

4. POB haters (quite a few) exaggerate his lack of effort during his minimal playing time. I am prejudiced, I am rooting for the kid, but I have never seen a lack of hustle on his part. Clusiness, sure. Some of his shots seem loopy (last game's air ball), but he clearly has good range for a big.  He made Josh Boone look small on that swat, and Josh Boone ain't a little fella.