Did Ainge Have the Worst Offseason

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

Ohhh, I knew I was forgetting somebody, the Houston Rockets, they had a very good offseason. I think they had the best offseason amongst Contenders.

Make that three teams that have had off-seasons that they can be proud of. That's three teams out of eleven for the folks keeping score.

Why was the Orlando Magic's offseason so great? adding Pietrus who has little to nothing to do with how good the team has been playing? ...the magics players are just getting better there offseason wasnt good

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

Worst Off-seasons By Contenders

[1] Phoenix Suns
[2] Utah Jazz
[3] Dallas Mavericks
[4] New Orleans Hornets
[5] San Antonio Spurs
[6] Detroit Pistons
[7] Los Angeles Lakers
[8] Boston Celtics

Only two contenders had off-seasons to be proud of - Orlando and Cleveland. Neither was all that impressive either.

I'd put the Celtics at #1 simply because they are the defending champs and it would have been easy for them to improve themselves in the offseason, but failed big time to do so, for no real apparent reason that I can find, except being cheap.

Why?

All of those other teams are contenders who didn't have the intelligence or the backbone to make the moves necessary in order to bring them to the Celtics level. Those squads wasted their opportunities and lost a year.

Unlike the Celtics who even with a so-so offseason are still a frontrunner (the frontrunner?) for an NBA title.

Those other teams shouldn't be left off the hook. Their bad decisions where non-decisions and they've caused far more damage to their franchises than Boston's offseason .... because they were non-decisions nobody is looking at them. The top six teams there have all had awful off-seasons, far worse than Boston.

The Celtics are no longer the frontrunners unless they find a way to improve the team.  Right now, the Lakers, Cleveland and possibly Orlando are better.  I'm not sure if they can beat any of the other contenders either with the state of the team right now. 

exactly, we have 0 chance at beating any of those teams as currently constructed, a versatile 6'8 swingman sure would come in handy against each and everyone of those teams too

[Who]

Ohhh, I knew I was forgetting somebody, the Houston Rockets, they had a very good offseason. I think they had the best offseason amongst Contenders.

Make that three teams that have had off-seasons that they can be proud of. That's three teams out of eleven for the folks keeping score.

Why was the Orlando Magic's offseason so great? adding Pietrus who has little to nothing to do with how good the team has been playing? ...the magics players are just getting better there offseason wasnt good

It wasn't great ... like I said I didn't think either of Cleveland's or Orlando's offseason was that impressive but they were good off-seasons.

I disagree about Mickael Pietrus, he was playing the best basketball of his career and was their most important role player earlier in the season. He's having an excellent season.

They also showed good patience and understanding in waiting for Tony Battie to get healthy, instead of forcing a potentially unnecessary trade and upsetting the balance of the team. Also the decision to retain Marcin Gortat despite having Dwight Howard, Tony Battie and Adonal Foyle at center was a very good call.

I also liked the pickup of Courtney Lee in the draft. The Anthony Johnson signing was a decent move.

They had a good off-season ... a great off-season would require them putting together a better bench than what's on show. One could call it a very good off-season if they wished.

[CelticsWhat35]

It seems to me that a lot more people are upset about not giving Posey his 4 years now than they were when the Celtics were in the midst of a 19-game winning streak.

I'm not going to say that the Celtics had a good off season, because they didn't.  But to say that they had the best chance of having a good off season because they were the defending champs doesn't make much sense.  Money still comes before winning, and so does location.  No matter what players try to say to the media.  So just the simple fact of the Celtics being champs isn't going to sway a player one way.

Are there some things Ainge could've done differently?  Probably.  Chris Andersen would look a lot better in a Celtics uniform than POB.  Matt Barnes would look better than Tony Allen.  But do any of us know for sure that we could've gotten them?  No.  You can't just look at the money.  Because as I said, winning still comes 3rd to location in most instances too.  Especially for guys in their 20's.  Chris Andersen started his career with the Nuggets.  He's got ties there.  Matt Barnes has played almost his entire professional and college career out west.  Maybe that's where he wanted to stay.

The best chance the Celtics had of improving on last years team was for their existing players to make signifcant improvements.  To start the year, Rondo and Perk definitely showed that.  But now Perk is hurt, and Rondo has been inconsistent of late.  Davis, and to a lesser extent Powe, have not made the strides one would expect of 2nd and 3rd year players.  And Tony Allen hasn't gotten back to his pre-injury form.

All this and the Celtics are still 31-9, right in the hunt for having the best record in the league.

And people were complaining that Danny did a horrible job of surrounding the Big Three with players last year, and then in March he got Cassell and Brown and they went on to win the title.  The offseason isn't the only time you can improve your club.  Ainge showed that.  And he still has time to show it again.

[elcotte]

Is there a bigger strawman than "Danny did the right thing because Posey's contract would have hurt the team?"

I think not. That contract is NBA pocket change, and it's eventually going to expire anyway. The two-year deal was insulting for the versatility you get with the player.

People are going to have to get their arms around the clear fact: Danny lowballed the guy, and he outsmarted himself - strike one in a horrible, horrible off-season. Inexplicably cheap for a franchise paying Pierce, Garnett and Allen.

One title may be enough, eh?

Always amazes me how people spend other people's money without thinking about it. Do you pay a premium over the price of a ticket when you go to a game?

[moiso]

Yes.  Absolutely horrible offseason.  He didn't add a single player who is contributing, and we lost two such players.  I could live with out Posey if he went in another direction and signed a useful player or two such as Barnes or Andersen instead of O'Blount.

[papa shuttlesworth]

I, like most people in this thread, was disappointed in the Celtics' offseason.  But I think they made the right decision with Posey.  While not having him hurts now, I think he'd be dead weight in a couple years.  Might happen, might not, but that's my opinion.

But I do think the offseason was a success in one area: Danny didn't make any big mistakes.  I think too often teams spend big money on lesser players because their fans are expecting them to spend money.  A good example is the Cavs a few years ago, with Donyell Marshall, Larry Hughes, Damon Jones, etc.  

Danny could have seen the glaring need for a big backup center and said "I know, I'll sign Nazr Mohammed for 4 years!" But fortunately he didn't spend just to spend and brought in some projects who have the potential of being stiffs, but are at least guaranteed stiffs with horrible contracts.

[Bankshot]

I, like most people in this thread, was disappointed in the Celtics' offseason.  But I think they made the right decision with Posey.  While not having him hurts now, I think he'd be dead weight in a couple years.  Might happen, might not, but that's my opinion.

But I do think the offseason was a success in one area: Danny didn't make any big mistakes.  I think too often teams spend big money on lesser players because their fans are expecting them to spend money.  A good example is the Cavs a few years ago, with Donyell Marshall, Larry Hughes, Damon Jones, etc.  

Danny could have seen the glaring need for a big backup center and said "I know, I'll sign Nazr Mohammed for 4 years!" But fortunately he didn't spend just to spend and brought in some projects who have the potential of being stiffs, but are at least guaranteed stiffs with horrible contracts.

Except that signing players like Miles, Mutombo or Birdman wouldn't have been signing lesser players big money.  They would have signed vet minimum deals.  For this reason Danny did make big mistakes this offseason by not signing such low salary vets who could have been a huge help to team. 

And I totally disagree that they did the right thing by not signing Posey.  Why would $7mil be considered dead weight?  Posey could have been traded in his final year as an expiring contract, which contract would still be a reasonable sum at that time and Posey is the type of good locker room guy that any team would love to have on their bench.  Besides, I doubt the Big 3 will be contending in 2011 anyway.

[BballTim]

Is there a bigger strawman than "Danny did the right thing because Posey's contract would have hurt the team?"

I think not. That contract is NBA pocket change, and it's eventually going to expire anyway. The two-year deal was insulting for the versatility you get with the player.

People are going to have to get their arms around the clear fact: Danny lowballed the guy, and he outsmarted himself - strike one in a horrible, horrible off-season. Inexplicably cheap for a franchise paying Pierce, Garnett and Allen.

One title may be enough, eh?

  Bitter? The $60M or so over the next 4 years is hardly pocket change. And it's ridiculous to call a 2 year MLE offer to a 32 year old that was coming off a 1 year $3M contract insulting. Did Posey, at the age of 31, suddenly become versatile?

[BballTim]

Ainge was handcuffed by Posey & his agent.

How so?  What did Posey and/or his agent do that was wrong, unethical, or misleading?  If Danny misread the situation, and didn't have a viable contingency in place, isn't that on Danny, rather than Posey's agent?

  From everything I've ever heard or read the "Danny misread the situation" claims are pure fantasy.

He did the CORRECT thing in letting him walk instead of a contract that would have hurt us later on.

Would a $7 million expiring contract four years from now really hurt the team that much?  Based upon what?

 Clearly Ainge wanted Posey back. The fact that he didn't offer Posey all of that money over 4 years is a pretty strong indication that signing him would have caused issues. I don't think that Danny's shared that issue with us, whether it's based on his budget or future financial considerations. That doesn't imply that a reason doesn't exist.

[LB3533]

The only reason we got House and Posey last season was because of the Big 3.

This year, the Big 3 were not able to draw any other veterans seeking to win or add another title.

This year, the only reason we have House is because he was the best available player at Ainge's price range.

Ainge figured Power and Baby with increased roles could fill the PJ Brown void.

Ainge figured TA could do something to make up for Posey's loss.

Ainge made a number of miss-calculations this past off season.

[JSD]

Why aren't we looking toward ownership and holding them accountable for the Posey situation? You don't think the idea of Posey's contract burying ownership in the Luxury Tax had something to do with not signing him? Look at how the Celtics contracts are laid out... all signs were pointing toward a step back this season in terms of commitment to other players outside of GPA.
The 3 are on the books for 60 Million this season. If DA's cards did not allow for a Posey signing (don't be naive and rule that out), he had a fine off season with the future of the team (Post GPA) in mind.  

Also, Patrick O'Bryant is far from a bust. He's got great length, good footwork and has a decent 10 -15 shoot jump shot. Like every youth big he needs work on "D". Is Walker and/or Giddens a "bust"? what a ridiculous statement...

[papa shuttlesworth]

I, like most people in this thread, was disappointed in the Celtics' offseason.  But I think they made the right decision with Posey.  While not having him hurts now, I think he'd be dead weight in a couple years.  Might happen, might not, but that's my opinion.

But I do think the offseason was a success in one area: Danny didn't make any big mistakes.  I think too often teams spend big money on lesser players because their fans are expecting them to spend money.  A good example is the Cavs a few years ago, with Donyell Marshall, Larry Hughes, Damon Jones, etc.  

Danny could have seen the glaring need for a big backup center and said "I know, I'll sign Nazr Mohammed for 4 years!" But fortunately he didn't spend just to spend and brought in some projects who have the potential of being stiffs, but are at least guaranteed stiffs with horrible contracts.

Except that signing players like Miles, Mutombo or Birdman wouldn't have been signing lesser players big money.  They would have signed vet minimum deals.  For this reason Danny did make big mistakes this offseason by not signing such low salary vets who could have been a huge help to team. 

And I totally disagree that they did the right thing by not signing Posey.  Why would $7mil be considered dead weight?  Posey could have been traded in his final year as an expiring contract, which contract would still be a reasonable sum at that time and Posey is the type of good locker room guy that any team would love to have on their bench.  Besides, I doubt the Big 3 will be contending in 2011 anyway.

I agree that he missed some bigger names/talents out there on the cheap.  My only point was that despite the mistakes he made this offseason, he didn't compound them by wasting money on horrible contracts.  If your bench is going to be bad, it is better to at least have not paid a lot for it.

He made some gambles and expected some players to improve.  Rondo did, Davis didn't, Tony didn't.  I think he ultimately decided to test them in the first half of the season.  Because the results are mixed (to be nice) now he can (hopefully) fix some of it midseason.

[JSD]

I, like most people in this thread, was disappointed in the Celtics' offseason.  But I think they made the right decision with Posey.  While not having him hurts now, I think he'd be dead weight in a couple years.  Might happen, might not, but that's my opinion.

But I do think the offseason was a success in one area: Danny didn't make any big mistakes.  I think too often teams spend big money on lesser players because their fans are expecting them to spend money.  A good example is the Cavs a few years ago, with Donyell Marshall, Larry Hughes, Damon Jones, etc.  

Danny could have seen the glaring need for a big backup center and said "I know, I'll sign Nazr Mohammed for 4 years!" But fortunately he didn't spend just to spend and brought in some projects who have the potential of being stiffs, but are at least guaranteed stiffs with horrible contracts.

Except that signing players like Miles, Mutombo or Birdman wouldn't have been signing lesser players big money.  They would have signed vet minimum deals.  For this reason Danny did make big mistakes this offseason by not signing such low salary vets who could have been a huge help to team. 

And I totally disagree that they did the right thing by not signing Posey.  Why would $7mil be considered dead weight?  Posey could have been traded in his final year as an expiring contract, which contract would still be a reasonable sum at that time and Posey is the type of good locker room guy that any team would love to have on their bench.  Besides, I doubt the Big 3 will be contending in 2011 anyway.

I agree that he missed some bigger names/talents out there on the cheap.  My only point was that despite the mistakes he made this offseason, he didn't compound them by wasting money on horrible contracts.  If your bench is going to be bad, it is better to at least have not paid a lot for it.

He made some gambles and expected some players to improve.  Rondo did, Davis didn't, Tony didn't.  I think he ultimately decided to test them in the first half of the season.  Because the results are mixed (to be nice) now he can (hopefully) fix some of it midseason.

I see your point Papa and I like it. Our bench rotation combines to make $6 mill with no player signed past 2010...

[thedawg]

Ainge was handcuffed by Posey & his agent.  He did the CORRECT thing in letting him walk instead of a contract that would have hurt us later on.  He picked up a true big with a nice offensive skill set for a project (for nothing).  Drafted 2 players who are nba ready.  Has Sam ready to be part of the coaching staff and his spot can be filled, Ainge isn't done yet.
Better question, Davis work on anything in the off season?

I agree about Posey and letting him go.  There is no sense in signing him up on a higher contract than we rate him. We have negotiation for Powe to do soon so he will want more money and we dont want to let him go!  But those rookies who you supposedly say are "NBA  Ready", why arent they being played then?!? 

I think the failure is twofold:

1)  Ainge for not strengthening the squad accordingly and not creating the width we need to defend the championship.  Everybody knows that is harder to defend a championship than winning it in the first place cos everybody wants to beat the champs! 

2)  Doc Rivers for not using the bench more than he does.  POB, Scalabrine, Pruitt, Powe and the rookies are not getting enough playing time IMO to get all from the fans they do.  Besides, Doc will pay for his decision later in the season when we will be knocked out early in the playoffs with the current roster.  Sadly, I think so....


edit - no offensive language.  Wide Load