You just saw the 2009 NBA Champions

[MMacOH]

Project Leon Powe's stats out to 48 minutes and he is a superstar.  It doesn't mean anything. 

I agree that West is an important part of the Cavs rotation, but IMO, saying that he is as good, or better (or more valuable) than Ray Allen is ludicrous.

Head to head this year (4 games):
Ray Allen: 15-41 FG, 36.6% FG, 43 pts (10.75 pts/game), 16 rebs, 9 ast, 3 stl, 0 blks
Delonte: 11-26 FG, 42.3% FG, 32 pts (8 pts/game), 12 rebs, 16 ast, 2 stls, 0 blks

They aren't that far apart

[crownsy]

Project Leon Powe's stats out to 48 minutes and he is a superstar.  It doesn't mean anything. 

I agree that West is an important part of the Cavs rotation, but IMO, saying that he is as good, or better (or more valuable) than Ray Allen is ludicrous.

Head to head this year (4 games):
Ray Allen: 15-41 FG, 36.6% FG, 43 pts (10.75 pts/game), 16 rebs, 9 ast, 3 stl, 0 blks
Delonte: 11-26 FG, 42.3% FG, 32 pts (8 pts/game), 12 rebs, 16 ast, 2 stls, 0 blks

They aren't that far apart

that doesnt really counter his point...its a nice stat though.

[MMacOH]

Project Leon Powe's stats out to 48 minutes and he is a superstar.  It doesn't mean anything. 

I agree that West is an important part of the Cavs rotation, but IMO, saying that he is as good, or better (or more valuable) than Ray Allen is ludicrous.

Head to head this year (4 games):
Ray Allen: 15-41 FG, 36.6% FG, 43 pts (10.75 pts/game), 16 rebs, 9 ast, 3 stl, 0 blks
Delonte: 11-26 FG, 42.3% FG, 32 pts (8 pts/game), 12 rebs, 16 ast, 2 stls, 0 blks

They aren't that far apart

that doesnt really counter his point...its a nice stat though.

How else would you gauge who is the better player this year?  I have compared their yearly stats and their head to head stats.  We are only talking about this year, not career.  And I never said Delonte was better, I was pointing out that Ray is not 'definitely' better as someone as trying to say.  They definitely are not that far apart THIS YEAR

[crownsy]

Project Leon Powe's stats out to 48 minutes and he is a superstar.  It doesn't mean anything. 

I agree that West is an important part of the Cavs rotation, but IMO, saying that he is as good, or better (or more valuable) than Ray Allen is ludicrous.

Head to head this year (4 games):
Ray Allen: 15-41 FG, 36.6% FG, 43 pts (10.75 pts/game), 16 rebs, 9 ast, 3 stl, 0 blks
Delonte: 11-26 FG, 42.3% FG, 32 pts (8 pts/game), 12 rebs, 16 ast, 2 stls, 0 blks

They aren't that far apart

that doesnt really counter his point...its a nice stat though.

How else would you gauge who is the better player this year?  I have compared their yearly stats and their head to head stats.  We are only talking about this year, not career.  And I never said Delonte was better, I was pointing out that Ray is not 'definitely' better as someone as trying to say.  They definitely are not that far apart THIS YEAR

you only counted four games in this scenario above that i was qouting.

this goes back to jeff's point about leon powe. If you only take his stats and go with per 48 against the cavs instead of the 18 minutes he plays, he becomes the greatest PF of all time.

whats more likely, that we are holding down the next wilt chamberlain on the bench or that stats don't tell the whole truth in this case?

[celticinorlando]

west was MIA in the other 3 games vs boston...you would really take west over ray allen?? wow...lest you forget boston traded west to get ray allen...

[MMacOH]

west was MIA in the other 3 games vs boston...you would really take west over ray allen?? wow...lest you forget boston traded west to get ray allen...

Just because Boston traded West to get Ray doesn't guarantee he is a better player.  Guys can actually improve as they play more.

West has been pretty consistent in all 4 games against Boston. 

[celticinorlando]

west better than allen? have you seen ray play this year? he has been boston's most consistent player...and if you need a 3 to tie or win the game...who do you want taking it...ray or west? i take ray everytime

[MMacOH]

west better than allen? have you seen ray play this year? he has been boston's most consistent player...and if you need a 3 to tie or win the game...who do you want taking it...ray or west? i take ray everytime

Yes, I sam him play yesterday.  I have also seen him play at home where he plays much better.

And, I'll take Lebron when the game is on the line

[BballTim]

I just don't get your clearly statement.  Project both of their stats out to 48 minues and Delonte beats Ray in every category except points.  There is much more to being a good player than scoring points.  

And honestly, I couldn't care less what happened last year.  You can't compare this year with last year.

we will just agree to disagree here which doesn't surprise me since I am a Cavs fan and you guys are Celtic fans.  No harm there

  By your measuring stick Rondo is far superior to Williams. Williams is a better scorer but Rondo's a better ballhandler, passer, rebounder and defender. I don't think it's really close in any of those categories.

[MMacOH]

I just don't get your clearly statement.  Project both of their stats out to 48 minues and Delonte beats Ray in every category except points.  There is much more to being a good player than scoring points.  

And honestly, I couldn't care less what happened last year.  You can't compare this year with last year.

we will just agree to disagree here which doesn't surprise me since I am a Cavs fan and you guys are Celtic fans.  No harm there

  By your measuring stick Rondo is far superior to Williams. Williams is a better scorer but Rondo's a better ballhandler, passer, rebounder and defender. I don't think it's really close in any of those categories.

I agree here.  I love what Mo brings to the Cavs, especially compared to what we havehad n the past and he serves a vital role to the Cavs as a scorer when Lebron is on the bench.  But, Rondo is an outstanding PG.  The guy will be an all star year in and year out if he learns a consistent jump shot.

[Rondo_is_better]

I just don't get your clearly statement.  Project both of their stats out to 48 minues and Delonte beats Ray in evenr category except points.  There is much more to being a good player than scoring points. 

we will just garee to disagree here which doesn't surprise since I am a Cavs fan and you guys are Crltic fans.  No harm there

Project Leon Powe's stats out to 48 minutes and he is a superstar.  It doesn't mean anything. 

I agree that West is an important part of the Cavs rotation, but IMO, saying that he is as good, or better (or more valuable) than Ray Allen is ludicrous.

MMacOH, I know you think we are underestimating Delonte and not giving him the credit he is due... but you are sipping quite heavily on the Cavs coolaid. I know he's a good guy and fun to watch and heck even a pretty good player, but if you asked a group of objective observers, they would certainly agree that Ray is a better player than Delonte. Ray is a Seven Time All-star, whereas Delonte is a role player on a good team. The chasm-sized difference between the two players is laughable.

And yes, you can argue that the past doesn't mean anything, so Ray's All-Star nominations are meaningless... but he was an All-Star this year. That recent enough for you? 

[celticinorlando]

we were talking ray vs west head up...last shot of the game...which one you want? mo williams is a shooting guard playing point...rondo is a pure point who has a first job of getting everyone going...

[MMacOH]

we were talking ray vs west head up...last shot of the game...which one you want? mo williams is a shooting guard playing point...rondo is a pure point who has a first job of getting everyone going...

I would take Ray.  I would also take John Paxson to take the last 3 over Isaih Thomas, does that mean Paxson was the better player?

[BballTim]

I just don't get your clearly statement.  Project both of their stats out to 48 minues and Delonte beats Ray in every category except points.  There is much more to being a good player than scoring points.  

And honestly, I couldn't care less what happened last year.  You can't compare this year with last year.

we will just agree to disagree here which doesn't surprise me since I am a Cavs fan and you guys are Celtic fans.  No harm there

  By your measuring stick Rondo is far superior to Williams. Williams is a better scorer but Rondo's a better ballhandler, passer, rebounder and defender. I don't think it's really close in any of those categories.

I agree here.  I love what Mo brings to the Cavs, especially compared to what we havehad n the past and he serves a vital role to the Cavs as a scorer when Lebron is on the bench.  But, Rondo is an outstanding PG.  The guy will be an all star year in and year out if he learns a consistent jump shot.

  Funny how you ended up here from "What is the second spot where Boston is definitely better?  I am just waiting for you to say PG".

[celticinorlando]

we were talking ray vs west head up...last shot of the game...which one you want? mo williams is a shooting guard playing point...rondo is a pure point who has a first job of getting everyone going...

I would take Ray.  I would also take John Paxson to take the last 3 over Isaih Thomas, does that mean Paxson was the better player?

are we talking GM's??