ESPN: Marbury, Celtics interested in deal

[housecall]

The time to upgrade the bench, though, was in the off-season, not by picking up the dregs of the NBA off the waiver wire.

Affirmative.

Yea, the acquisitions of PJ Brown and Sam Cassell were so harmful to the team last year.

First, Danny *did* upgrade the team last off-season, and then supplemented the bench through in-season acquisitions.

This off-season, the team downgraded its bench (by replacing Posey and P.J. with POB), and took no other steps to improve until the season started.

I don't see how that's comparable, at all.

Come on, we got Posey on the cheap last year, on a make good deal, that was not available this past summer.  Who did Danny pass up that he could have gotten as cheap within the C's budget??

Roger Mason, Matt Barnes, Chris Anderson...  there were a ton of guys available for less than the MLE that could have helped this team.  The suggestion that somehow there were no affordable free agents is just patently false.

  I spent an entire offseason hearing that we had to get Posey because all of the FAs sucked. Now I keep hearing that Danny passed up on all these useful players.

That's disingenuous and I suspect you know it. 

Many posters on here were okay with losing Posey, if and only if the team used the money that was freed up to upgrade the team in other areas.  Instead, the team replaced Posey and P.J. with Paddy O'Blount.

I read a post yesterday that accused wyc and partner for being  penny pinchers, lol...maybe there is some truth to it?

[biggs]

Marcus Banks, Gerald Green, Brian Scalabrine, Raef LaFrentz...

Sorry, I forgot that Danny never made mistakes.
[/quote]

Banks- fastest player in the draft, Danny's first draft, oops

Gerald- we wanted Granger badly, Bird stole him so we took a shot on an athletic freak, who ended up being part of the trade that got us KG. meh

Scal- a terrible, terrible, contract, but a good locker room presence and his terrible contract will come off the books at an opportune time.

Raef- looked like a terrible trade at first, and though Raef didn't do much while he was here, his contract packaged with a draft pick got us the biggest expiring contract in the league....which was the key to us getting KG. along with big AL  

Now you can argue all day that Ainge should have picked Roy in that draft instead of trade, but then we would still be rebuilding and probably without our captain.  

My point being- most of Danny's screw ups have panned out.

[Roy Hobbs]

My point being- most of Danny's screw ups have panned out.

No, they really didn't at all.  None of Banks, Gerald, Scal, and Raef "panned out"; they all were miscalculations by Danny to varying degrees.  I mean, you're stretching things a bit if you justify the Raef trade by saying that he plus the rights to Brandon Roy were packaged for Theo Ratliff's expiring contract, which was flipped in turn for KG. 

On balance, I think Danny has been a good GM, and he absolutely deserved GM of the Year last year, but he's not infallible, which seems to be what was suggested above.

[greg683x]

My point being- most of Danny's screw ups have panned out.

No, they really didn't at all.  None of Banks, Gerald, Scal, and Raef "panned out"; they all were miscalculations by Danny to varying degrees.  I mean, you're stretching things a bit if you justify the Raef trade by saying that he plus the rights to Brandon Roy were packaged for Theo Ratliff's expiring contract, which was flipped in turn for KG. 

On balance, I think Danny has been a good GM, and he absolutely deserved GM of the Year last year, but he's not infallible, which seems to be what was suggested above.

I gotta agree here.  The only one of Ainges mistakes I'm usually willing to give him a free pass on was the Brandon Roy draft mistake, and the only reason I tend to let it slide was because he STOLE Rajon Rondo in the same draft.  Im not saying that he purposely passed on Roy because of Rondo or anything like that, just in my mind, the two cancel each other out. 

Danny would have became a draft day legend had we left that draft with both Brandon Roy and Rajon Rondo......and thats with Al Jefferson already on the roster.

[winsomme]

My point being- most of Danny's screw ups have panned out.

No, they really didn't at all.  None of Banks, Gerald, Scal, and Raef "panned out"; they all were miscalculations by Danny to varying degrees.  I mean, you're stretching things a bit if you justify the Raef trade by saying that he plus the rights to Brandon Roy were packaged for Theo Ratliff's expiring contract, which was flipped in turn for KG. 

On balance, I think Danny has been a good GM, and he absolutely deserved GM of the Year last year, but he's not infallible, which seems to be what was suggested above.

i think the thing that made DA a great GM wasn't never making mistakes, it was how he dealt with those mistakes....(in addition, obviously, to his non-mistakes...eg Rondo).

[BballTim]

The time to upgrade the bench, though, was in the off-season, not by picking up the dregs of the NBA off the waiver wire.

Affirmative.

Yea, the acquisitions of PJ Brown and Sam Cassell were so harmful to the team last year.

First, Danny *did* upgrade the team last off-season, and then supplemented the bench through in-season acquisitions.

This off-season, the team downgraded its bench (by replacing Posey and P.J. with POB), and took no other steps to improve until the season started.

I don't see how that's comparable, at all.

Come on, we got Posey on the cheap last year, on a make good deal, that was not available this past summer.  Who did Danny pass up that he could have gotten as cheap within the C's budget??

Roger Mason, Matt Barnes, Chris Anderson...  there were a ton of guys available for less than the MLE that could have helped this team.  The suggestion that somehow there were no affordable free agents is just patently false.

  I spent an entire offseason hearing that we had to get Posey because all of the FAs sucked. Now I keep hearing that Danny passed up on all these useful players.

That's disingenuous and I suspect you know it. 

Many posters on here were okay with losing Posey, if and only if the team used the money that was freed up to upgrade the team in other areas.  Instead, the team replaced Posey and P.J. with Paddy O'Blount.

  What I said was absolutely true and you know it. I argued in multiple threads that we could still have a decent bench if we didn't sign Posey but signed another sf and upgraded our c and pg play from the bench. Everyone said that there were no decent players available. There's a lot of revisionism going on.

[Roy Hobbs]

The time to upgrade the bench, though, was in the off-season, not by picking up the dregs of the NBA off the waiver wire.

Affirmative.

Yea, the acquisitions of PJ Brown and Sam Cassell were so harmful to the team last year.

First, Danny *did* upgrade the team last off-season, and then supplemented the bench through in-season acquisitions.

This off-season, the team downgraded its bench (by replacing Posey and P.J. with POB), and took no other steps to improve until the season started.

I don't see how that's comparable, at all.

Come on, we got Posey on the cheap last year, on a make good deal, that was not available this past summer.  Who did Danny pass up that he could have gotten as cheap within the C's budget??

Roger Mason, Matt Barnes, Chris Anderson...  there were a ton of guys available for less than the MLE that could have helped this team.  The suggestion that somehow there were no affordable free agents is just patently false.

  I spent an entire offseason hearing that we had to get Posey because all of the FAs sucked. Now I keep hearing that Danny passed up on all these useful players.

That's disingenuous and I suspect you know it. 

Many posters on here were okay with losing Posey, if and only if the team used the money that was freed up to upgrade the team in other areas.  Instead, the team replaced Posey and P.J. with Paddy O'Blount.

  What I said was absolutely true and you know it. I argued in multiple threads that we could still have a decent bench if we didn't sign Posey but signed another sf and upgraded our c and pg play from the bench. Everyone said that there were no decent players available. There's a lot of revisionism going on.

This blog has in excess of 2000 members.  You're taking the past argument of one segment of the membership, and now using it to imply another segment of the blog is made up of hypocrites, despite those two segments making different arguments from the beginning.  I think that's disingenuous.

[Roy Hobbs]

My point being- most of Danny's screw ups have panned out.

No, they really didn't at all.  None of Banks, Gerald, Scal, and Raef "panned out"; they all were miscalculations by Danny to varying degrees.  I mean, you're stretching things a bit if you justify the Raef trade by saying that he plus the rights to Brandon Roy were packaged for Theo Ratliff's expiring contract, which was flipped in turn for KG. 

On balance, I think Danny has been a good GM, and he absolutely deserved GM of the Year last year, but he's not infallible, which seems to be what was suggested above.

i think the thing that made DA a great GM wasn't never making mistakes, it was how he dealt with those mistakes....(in addition, obviously, to his non-mistakes...eg Rondo).

Oh, I agree.  I've been a defender of Danny all along.  However, the man is capable of mistakes, and I think this past off-season is a shining example of that.  He miscalculated in terms of the bench, and it's hurting the team now.

[Andy Jick]

i honestly question whether this rumor has any merit to it...

it is NOT danny's style to comment about players who are STILL UNDER CONTRACT for another team, and in all honesty (pardon my ignorance) but i thought it was against league rules to do so.  he can't be brought in until the buyout occurs and it hasn't...and there's a slim chance the knicks could just play hardball and keep him on the roster all season.

[winsomme]

My point being- most of Danny's screw ups have panned out.

No, they really didn't at all.  None of Banks, Gerald, Scal, and Raef "panned out"; they all were miscalculations by Danny to varying degrees.  I mean, you're stretching things a bit if you justify the Raef trade by saying that he plus the rights to Brandon Roy were packaged for Theo Ratliff's expiring contract, which was flipped in turn for KG. 

On balance, I think Danny has been a good GM, and he absolutely deserved GM of the Year last year, but he's not infallible, which seems to be what was suggested above.

i think the thing that made DA a great GM wasn't never making mistakes, it was how he dealt with those mistakes....(in addition, obviously, to his non-mistakes...eg Rondo).

Oh, I agree.  I've been a defender of Danny all along.  However, the man is capable of mistakes, and I think this past off-season is a shining example of that.  He miscalculated in terms of the bench, and it's hurting the team now.

i think it's pretty hard at this point to know exactly what the miscalculation was, though...

my feeling isn't that he thought the bench was fine without Posey. I think he really thought he was going to get him back...

when he didn't, the players left were not very impressive....

the rumors about Marbury landing here were around almost from the very beginning of the season.....and PJ, though he had retired, was always part of the discussion..

also remember the rumors were that DA was very active in pursuit of Maggette when it was thought that he might sign a MLE deal.

so i have a hard time believing that DA really thought that the bench as currently composed was deep enough..

[BrickJames]

My point being- most of Danny's screw ups have panned out.

No, they really didn't at all.  None of Banks, Gerald, Scal, and Raef "panned out"; they all were miscalculations by Danny to varying degrees.  I mean, you're stretching things a bit if you justify the Raef trade by saying that he plus the rights to Brandon Roy were packaged for Theo Ratliff's expiring contract, which was flipped in turn for KG. 

On balance, I think Danny has been a good GM, and he absolutely deserved GM of the Year last year, but he's not infallible, which seems to be what was suggested above.

i think the thing that made DA a great GM wasn't never making mistakes, it was how he dealt with those mistakes....(in addition, obviously, to his non-mistakes...eg Rondo).

Oh, I agree.  I've been a defender of Danny all along.  However, the man is capable of mistakes, and I think this past off-season is a shining example of that.  He miscalculated in terms of the bench, and it's hurting the team now.

"Miscalcuation"?

I disagree.  A GM's primary job is to maximize the owners' profit.  Purists may not like to hear this, but it is the reality of the measuring stick for a GM's job.  Obviously, this is a mixture between winning and filling the seats/selling merchandise.  It's up to the GM to evaluate the landscape and react accordingly.

Danny's lack of action in the offseason was intentional.  We had just won a championship, were over the luxury tax threshold, and nothing attractive was available for the price Danny, Wyc and crew were looking for.  Don't act like he didn't try to make moves - but he's got 29 other guys doing the exact same thing.  If something good was out there, he would've bitten.

That "something good" is about to come along.  We're talking about a point guard in the tail end of his prime (younger than the Big Three), who, lest his recently self-tarnished reputation, would be a candidate for Springfield.  The third active assist leader, who also has happened to average ~20ppg over his career, is about to be available for the VETERAN'S MINIMUM and WANTS to play here!

How is this any of this a miscalculation?  I think you're grossly mistaken.

[Roy Hobbs]

A GM's primary job is to maximize the owners' profit.

I think that's a gross over-simplification.  I don't think Danny's job last season was to maximize profits; if so, he never would have taken fliers on some of the low risk players that he did (Jones, Batista, Miles, etc.)  On the Celtics, money is a concern, but I'm not sure that it's the primary consideration.  On other teams, money is less of a consideration, if at all (Brian Cashman of the Yankees, for instance, doesn't have to worry at all about maximizing profits.)

As for Danny, he miscalculated in choosing POB over Chris Andersen, he miscalculated in not getting a true backup small forward on the team, he miscalculated in relying upon in-season additions rather than shoring up the team in the off-season, he miscalculated in thinking that BBD and Tony would show more consistency this season than they did last, etc., etc.

(Also, Starbury for Springfield?  Generally, guys who make two all-star games in their career aren't given strong consideration for the Hall of Fame.)

[BrickJames]

A GM's primary job is to maximize the owners' profit.

I think that's a gross over-simplification.  I don't think Danny's job last season was to maximize profits; if so, he never would have taken fliers on some of the low risk players that he did (Jones, Batista, Miles, etc.)  On the Celtics, money is a concern, but I'm not sure that it's the primary consideration.  On other teams, money is less of a consideration, if at all (Brian Cashman of the Yankees, for instance, doesn't have to worry at all about maximizing profits.)

As for Danny, he miscalculated in choosing POB over Chris Andersen, he miscalculated in not getting a true backup small forward on the team, he miscalculated in relying upon in-season additions rather than shoring up the team in the off-season, he miscalculated in thinking that BBD and Tony would show more consistency this season than they did last, etc., etc.

(Also, Starbury for Springfield?  Generally, guys who make two all-star games in their career aren't given strong consideration for the Hall of Fame.)

I don't agree with the miscalc bit.  I believe it was part of Danny's plan (POB, etc).  I don't know what that plan is, but in Danny I trust at this point.

Honestly IMO he gets a carte blanche until we miss the playoffs.  Really he's got a 4 year window before I start complaining about all-star quality acquisitions.

28-5?  1st place?  Man, what a gaff.

Oh, and baseball is different with no Salary Cap - but Cashman is still trying to maximize profits.  Either way, I should've qualified that (valid, non-simplified statement) with "over the long term"

[BballTim]

The time to upgrade the bench, though, was in the off-season, not by picking up the dregs of the NBA off the waiver wire.

Affirmative.

Yea, the acquisitions of PJ Brown and Sam Cassell were so harmful to the team last year.

First, Danny *did* upgrade the team last off-season, and then supplemented the bench through in-season acquisitions.

This off-season, the team downgraded its bench (by replacing Posey and P.J. with POB), and took no other steps to improve until the season started.

I don't see how that's comparable, at all.

Come on, we got Posey on the cheap last year, on a make good deal, that was not available this past summer.  Who did Danny pass up that he could have gotten as cheap within the C's budget??

Roger Mason, Matt Barnes, Chris Anderson...  there were a ton of guys available for less than the MLE that could have helped this team.  The suggestion that somehow there were no affordable free agents is just patently false.

  I spent an entire offseason hearing that we had to get Posey because all of the FAs sucked. Now I keep hearing that Danny passed up on all these useful players.

That's disingenuous and I suspect you know it. 

Many posters on here were okay with losing Posey, if and only if the team used the money that was freed up to upgrade the team in other areas.  Instead, the team replaced Posey and P.J. with Paddy O'Blount.

  What I said was absolutely true and you know it. I argued in multiple threads that we could still have a decent bench if we didn't sign Posey but signed another sf and upgraded our c and pg play from the bench. Everyone said that there were no decent players available. There's a lot of revisionism going on.

This blog has in excess of 2000 members.  You're taking the past argument of one segment of the membership, and now using it to imply another segment of the blog is made up of hypocrites, despite those two segments making different arguments from the beginning.  I think that's disingenuous.

  While you personally might not have been saying that there were no good free agents other than Posey (which, by the way, I didn't dispute), I'll disagree with your claim that none of the people who said that there were no good free agents have said that Danny passed on players that could help the team.

[winsomme]

A GM's primary job is to maximize the owners' profit.

I think that's a gross over-simplification.  I don't think Danny's job last season was to maximize profits; if so, he never would have taken fliers on some of the low risk players that he did (Jones, Batista, Miles, etc.)  On the Celtics, money is a concern, but I'm not sure that it's the primary consideration.  On other teams, money is less of a consideration, if at all (Brian Cashman of the Yankees, for instance, doesn't have to worry at all about maximizing profits.)

As for Danny, he miscalculated in choosing POB over Chris Andersen, he miscalculated in not getting a true backup small forward on the team, he miscalculated in relying upon in-season additions rather than shoring up the team in the off-season, he miscalculated in thinking that BBD and Tony would show more consistency this season than they did last, etc., etc.

(Also, Starbury for Springfield?  Generally, guys who make two all-star games in their career aren't given strong consideration for the Hall of Fame.)

while i am extremely frustrated with the bench play right now....and obviously (from posting over and over again) unhappy about not re-signing Pose, i do think it is  premature to conclude that relying on in-season acquisitions and not signing Chris Anderson in the off season were miscalculations...

let's see what happens. i mean i would be much happier with Joe Smith, for instance, than Chris Anderson