Bigger LOSS?

[KG Living Legend]

I'm asking what would have been the bigger loss Big Game James.  (really happened)

Or Leon My man Powe. For all the great things James brought to the table.

No question in my mind Leon Brings way more to the table Offensively.

But For some strange reason, as good as we are, We really really struggle to get buckets from time to time. Which is why in my opinion Leon would have been a bigger loss.

It's not easy to find guys that can come off the bench and score almost at will.

And a Post type Scorer at that. He has his shortcomings, But sometimes I beg for us to get him in the game. As great As KG is, he is not a real post up nightmare the way leon is. He's the only dangerous guy we got on the block. So what do you all think. Leon Or Posey, If you could only have one.

[Roy Hobbs]

I merged your first two posts.

Hmm...  tough to say.  I like Powe more than I did Posey, but Posey was definitely more of a key piece for us last year.  Powe can have a similar impact this season, though, so long as he gets consistent minutes.  He won't add what Posey did in terms of defense or range, but he can score more and be a better rebounder from the 4 position.

[Donoghus]

So you're asking who is or would be the bigger loss to the Celtics?  Posey or Powe?

As much as I love Powe's game, I'd have to say that the loss of Posey.  Posey is a unique player in the sense that his size and athleticism makes him multi-dimensional on the defensive end.  You can throw him at a shooting guard or a power forward, depending on the situation.  He's extremely versatile and an incredible talent to have coming off your bench.  Also, he does bring offense to the table with his outside shooting, specifically 3 point land so he's not going to be a liability on the offensive end.  He can still make contributions there.  He was the perfect guy for Thibodeau's system last year and thrived on this team.  Tony Allen can't replace that.

Powe, on the otherhand, is a terrific inside scorer and rebounder.  His intensity also sets him apart.  However, he is a tad undersized and is nowhere as versatile on defense as Posey was.  He's also just not as good as Posey, defensively.  I still question some of his decision-making on the defensive end.  He's a great sparkplug off the bench but he's not at the level that Posey was at.

[yall hate]

I dont think it's close at all.  Posey is a much bigger loss.  Leon has some games where he looks good.  He also has other games where he does nothing.  He is a nice role player who will likely never be more.  Posey is one of the best role players in the entire league, a guy that just about every team in the league would be happy to have on their team. 

My opinion might be different if Leon had the same skill set but was 6-11 rather then 6-6. 

[QuinielaBox]

Did anybody bother to watch the work of Tony Allen last night. Man I was impressed with both ends of the court. He can easily replace the production of James Posey.

He is playing with much more control than in years past.

Powe gives us a low post presence - kinda of a combination of Paul Silas and Cornbread Maxwell. Need to keep him at all costs I would think.

[crownsy]

Did anybody bother to watch the work of Tony Allen last night. Man I was impressed with both ends of the court. He can easily replace the production of James Posey.

He is playing with much more control than in years past.

Powe gives us a low post presence - kinda of a combination of Paul Silas and Cornbread Maxwell. Need to keep him at all costs I would think.

well, lets not go overboard. to replicate james, tony would need to

- learn to shoot a 3.

- grow 3 inches so he can gaurd big 3's and 4;s

- take a course in man hugs.

- shore up his defense, which is good, but sometimes disapears.


no doubt TA is going to be helpful to us this year though, i think.

[paintitgreen]

Man, my first post on the new site didn't go through. Not a good start for paintitgreen.

Anyway, to summarize my previously written manifesto.

Posey is absolutely a bigger loss in the short term. He's just more unique. Powe plays his game great, but his game is just a bit more limited than Posey's. Posey can defend all the same guys Powe can defend, plus more wing oriented players Powe couldn't touch. Powe's actual offensive game is probably better, but Posey fits the game plan so well because he can stretch the floor creating space for Paul, Ray and KG. But long term, and factoring in cost, Powe may be more important and might be a bigger loss. The fact is, it's a business. I've said this before, but my opinion is that we would not have won the title last year without Posey, but we would have won it without Powe. I've also said I don't agree with the decision not to bring back Posey whatever the cost. However, I understand the decision and rationale behind it and have nothing against Ainge and the management team for making the decision. That's why they get paid to do it, they have to factor in everything while I just care about us winning, particularly now.

What I will add onto that is this. Last year is history. That we wouldn't have won last year without Posey doesn't mean we can't win this year or next year or the year after without Posey. And that Posey is a bigger loss now doesn't mean Powe won't be more important to the team in the coming years than Posey would have been. I love Leon Powe. I said several times last night "how can anybody not love Leon Powe?" So while I'm sad Posey's gone, I'm also very happy Powe is still here.

Finally, Quiniela, I have to say, I disagree with a lot of your post. Like crownsy said, TA would have to add a lot to his game to fill Posey's shoes. But more important is this, TA got some good important buckets last night but I didn't see anything that would make me think "he is playing with much more control than in years past." Almost all his scores last night were completely out of control. I feel like 2 or 3 buckets were just line drives in the lane when he couldn't even see the basket because his head was down. What I think he does have that he didn't have last year is more of his old burst. He may never be as explosive as he once was, but he showed the hops and athleticism a few times and that was very good to see. Control? Sorry, I just didn't see any of that. He still has that "spazzing out in a pickup game" thing going for him big time.

[Fan from VT]

I do want to point out that there is a difference between "replacing" posey and "replicating" posey. we certainly could "replace" posey's production with a combination of TA and powe, but if we try to "replicage" posey, we will fail.

Look at how san antonio won their first title with Stephen jackson playing a prominent 6th man role, then won 3 more with nothing even close to resembling him. you don't need to be an identical replication of your first title run in order to continue to be successful, and in fact being a carbon copy replication guarantees nothing. the celtics must simply find a way to be a little different than last year by figuring out successful combinations and uses of players.

[Eeyore III]

My opinion might be different if Leon had the same skill set but was 6-11 rather then 6-6. 

If Powe was 6'11" they'd have to re-name the league after him.

[Hoops]

Let me start by saying that I love Posey and I think losing him was big. But I hardly think his production cannot be replaced. Sure, he could guard lots of positions, but T. Allen can guard smaller guys and Powe can guard bigger guys. Our defense is TEAM defense and I don't really see the defense losing much without Posey.

Offensively, I think it's clear than T. Allen and Powe are better options - with one exception. The three. Posey's knack for stepping up and hitting just one, maybe two threes at just the right moments was HUGE. Neither Allen or Powe will replace that. But you know with Pierce, Allen and House, we still have more quality 3 pt. shooters than most teams. We'll always have at least 2 on the floor in big moments in important games. That's enough to spread the floor. I could easily see Tony Allen or Powe being a sufficient offensive threat in big moments where Perk is on the bench.

Again, I think Posey was a big loss, but at the same time I'm not that worried about it, if that makes sense.

[BudweiserCeltic]

None are a big loss. You find replacements for them, and move on. All the cry through the offseason and preseason on who will be able to defend LeBron... I think we contained him quite well in the half court game. In fact, I don't think LeBron scored once on Tony.

[wdleehi]

Posey was and would be the bigger loss.  

[crownsy]

None are a big loss. You find replacements for them, and move on. All the cry through the offseason and preseason on who will be able to defend LeBron... I think we contained him quite well in the half court game. In fact, I don't think LeBron scored once on Tony.

he toasted him a couple times in the first half, i think, but overall, he did a very good job on bron bron.

[expobear]

My opinion might be different if Leon had the same skill set but was 6-11 rather then 6-6. 

If Powe was 6'11" they'd have to re-name the league after him.

That's worth a TP!

[nickagneta]

1.) Posey's versatility and leadership and three point range outweighs Powe's grit determination and maybe better stats this year in similar minutes.

2.) If Leon Powe was 6'11" he'd have been a top 3 pick and currently putting up 21 and 11 somewhere else.

3.) Did I watch the same first half as QuinielaBox last night? Tony Allen was, in a word, awful in the first half last night. He almost pulled a Cassell by singlehandedly almost shooting the team into a loss. His defense on Gibson and West was bad. I mean real bad, often getting deeked out, beaten to the point of attack, and trailing behind them. Yes he was a different player in the second half with good defense on LBJ after hitting a couple of "Oh My God that actually went in" type of shots. There is no way Tony Allen will replace Posey. I just hope we can get a better performance out of him than last year.