Author Topic: Who Will the Red Sox Target for 08/09 FA? Who Will They Trade?  (Read 138401 times)

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Re: who will the redsox target for 08/09 FA, who will they trade
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2008, 03:29:38 PM »

Offline yall hate

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some facts everyone should know further is that

for the FA period after next year crisp has a 8 mm club option also jason bay is a FA.  No matter what if crisp is signed or not that figure is something bay will work with and no doubt command at least 11 per season for 5 or 6 years. Matt holliday who is also going to be a FA will prob ask for 13 to 16 a year for 5 or 6 years. And for me holliday is worth that extra 2 to 3 million per year. (bay is a good player but he is not "clutch") He hits first inning home runs and rbis but particularly late in the innings when we need him to drive in runs he has failed. Matt holliday and texeira are the kind of players the redsox will get as close to manny as possible( 300 avg hitter, 30 home runs, except for last year 100 plus rbi's, 400 plus obp)


Or how about bucholz, crisp and bowden for example for brandon webb and others(webb FA 2009 class)



I dont think they will be trading Webb.  they dont need to get younger, and factoring in Haren they have a nasty 1-2 punch. 

also, Holliday, if he hits the open market will likely get closer to 20 million per season.  Look at his numbers from away from Coors.  he isnt worth it.  he isnt worth 15 million.  he isnt worth the prospects a trade would require.

Re: who will the redsox target for 08/09 FA, who will they trade
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2008, 03:30:04 PM »

Offline ma11l

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some facts everyone should know further is that

for the FA period after next year crisp has a 8 mm club option also jason bay is a FA.  No matter what if crisp is signed or not that figure is something bay will work with and no doubt command at least 11 per season for 5 or 6 years. Matt holliday who is also going to be a FA will prob ask for 13 to 16 a year for 5 or 6 years. And for me holliday is worth that extra 2 to 3 million per year. (bay is a good player but he is not "clutch") He hits first inning home runs and rbis but particularly late in the innings when we need him to drive in runs he has failed. Matt holliday and texeira are the kind of players the redsox will get as close to manny as possible( 300 avg hitter, 30 home runs, except for last year 100 plus rbi's, 400 plus obp)

For that year of FA beckett has a club option of 12 million. Beckett has been good to us but i really don't like his injury riddled career and don't trust it. So we could either hope for bucholz to develop into an ace(not lookign the greatest right now) or we could get a trade package going and get a top three pitcher.

Someone stated ellsbury, bucholz for holliday and fuentes. I like this trade alot but colorado will also demand bay in that package too and of course we would get something more back from them.(jeff francis for example)

Or how about bucholz, crisp and bowden for example for brandon webb and others(webb FA 2009 class)







Kind of a small sample size to say that Bay isn't "clutch" isn't it.  He didn't play a meaningful game in his professional career until his first game at Fenway, where his leadoff triple in extras led to a win. 


He played very well in the Angels series, probably was our best hitter.  He got on twice in the late innings in game 7, including getting only our second hit of the game.  I think I'd like to keep him around and see what he can do next year in a full year with the team before we throw around statements like that.
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Re: who will the redsox target for 08/09 FA, who will they trade
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2008, 04:15:53 PM »

Offline Toine43

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First off, I agree wiht ma11l that Bay saying Bay isn't "clutch" isn't valid.

But now onto Dusty Brown, who I was suprised to see come up so often in this discussion. As a matter of fact, I have seen Dusty in person 5-10 times. During the summer I work at a camp that is based in Maine, and so we frequently take trips to Hadlock Field in Portland to see the Sea Dogs play. Typically, and especially without a program, the fans don't know too much about any of the players, besides the big name prospects. So without having any preconceived notions of Dusty, his drawing my attention is fairly significant. And he did attract my attention, particularly in the field. I'm foggy on his ability to block pitches in the dirt, but I can tell you that he has an absolute cannon of an arm. In one of the games I went to he threw out 2 runners in the same inning, and another one later in the game. His bat seemed to be pretty mediocre at the time, but that was a couple of years ago, so who knows how he currently looks at the plate (statistics in the minors are misleading - the year before Hanley got traded to Florida and had that monster rookie season he was hitting in the low/mid .200s in Portland).

I can't tell you if the Sox see any Major League potential in this kid, but I think he has a shot. Definitely not to replace Tek - we all know the Sox will either re-sign Tek or acquire an established Major Leaguer to replace him. But Dusty may have a shot at Cash's job. His defensive prowess would make him a better candidate for that job than Kotteras.

As far as the big league roster goes:
- trade Crisp, his value has reached its maximum
- keep Buckholz, his value is low, and try to re-establish him in the big leagues
- don't count out Mike Lowell just yet, people who do that tend tend to eat their words later on
- trading Papi doesn't make sense. he's an influential clubhouse guy who may have suprisingly little value on the market until he proves that he can play again. But if he proves he can play again- wouldn't we want him at that point?
- will Lowell, Ortiz, and Youk on the team, which they will be, there's no room for Texeira.
- if they trade Coco, re-sign Kotsay as short-term insurance for Drew and Lowell. If one of them goes down indefinitely, Tito can plug in Kotsay until the Sox can pull off a midseason deal.
- dump Lugo, go with Lowrie - hopefully Lowrie gives us a solid effort, but beware that there are no guarantees with him yet.
- might as well sign Wake again. you can never have enough pitching.
- Masterson's role depends in his third pitch. can he develop a quality change up? if so, then i think he'll start. if not, he can still be valauable in his current role. I would imagine the pitching situation the Sox encountered this year will encourage them to make Masterson a starter.
- Schilling: he won't be pitching for us, but it should be interesting to see if he inks a deal with the Rays, like he has mentioned as a possibility.


The main question about the Red Sox is whether they should go to battle next year with the same cast of characters. Are they good enough to compete again without making any major moves? My take on this question is that they are good enough to compete, especially if Ellsbury and Lowell come back strong and prove everyone wrong. But to win, they need to spend the bulk of their free agency money on a starting pitcher. I say Lowe, not the more expensive Sabathia, as they need depth more than they need an ace. That way they can save some dough to go for a slugger at the deadline if an injury or an underperforming position player plagues the lineup.


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Re: who will the redsox target for 08/09 FA, who will they trade
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2008, 04:41:07 PM »

Offline Nerf DPOY

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 I'd like to see the 'Sox extend Bay this offseason. Something like a 3 year exension around 45 mil, taking him through 2012. Reddick is the only decent OF prospect on the horizon, and he's still pretty iffy.

Just say "No" to a Jake Peavy trade.

Don't trade Bowden, Buchholz, or Bard. I'd much rather see Tek brought back and hit .210 next season than part with cost-controlled arms for the likes of Saltalamachia or Max Ramirez.

I really hope that they can find a taker for Lugo this offseason. Even if they have to part with some middling prospects AND pay half his remaining salary, I look at it as money well wasted. Hopefully Detroit? They'll probably be cutting ties with Renteria, their payroll's already high, and their minor league system is devoid of talent.

Re: who will the redsox target for 08/09 FA, who will they trade
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2008, 04:46:33 PM »

Offline Rondoholic

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Trade Bay and prospects to the Rockies for Holliday.
Trade prospects to Texas for Salty/Teagarden
Resign Tek for 2 years for leadership
Resign Kotsay

Can include Crisp in any trade with Ellsbury, Kotsay as the CF depth

I also wouldn't mind pursuing our old friend Derek Lowe.

Re: who will the redsox target for 08/09 FA, who will they trade
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2008, 05:18:47 PM »

Offline Triboy16

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Trade Bay and prospects to the Rockies for Holliday.
Trade prospects to Texas for Salty/Teagarden
Resign Tek for 2 years for leadership
Resign Kotsay

Can include Crisp in any trade with Ellsbury, Kotsay as the CF depth

I also wouldn't mind pursuing our old friend Derek Lowe.

good call man. The bay holliday trade though is kind of tough to kink out the more you think about it because the redsox and rockies will need to secure both players long term. Rockies who don't have the most cash in the world will prob try to ask bay to sign to a 8 to 10 million per year deal but in addition how will the rockies get back to being contenders again?? (i'am sure bay after being spoiled experiencing the post season would want to play for a condenter for a long while). Same with holliday though i could see him taking a 15 million per year deal just to be with a team like the redsox (btw holliday hit close to or over 300 avg outside his homefield , i think that proves he can hit anywhere)

As for the catching situation i really feel you gotto give brown a chance ( i really don't know salty from texas has done much more hitting 250(kevin cash like numbers). I hardly doubt also max ramirez will be traded in case their current catcher flunks. someone already stated brown has an amazing arm and good defensively(also pawsox last year were tops in their division and made it far in the playoffs because of the kottaras/brown combo catching)

go to boston.com and read on the article soft in the middle. boston will have enough cash coming off the books to get a top flight hitter like texeira and pitcher.

T

Re: who will the redsox target for 08/09 FA, who will they trade
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2008, 05:20:26 PM »

Offline yall hate

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Here is a good representation of the players who we have under contract for next year and how much.

Quote
C -
C - Kevin Cash - $400K+
1B - Kevin Youkilis - $3MM+
2B - Dustin Pedroia - $457K
SS - Jed Lowrie - $400K
3B - Mike Lowell - $12MM
IF - Julio Lugo - $9MM
IF - Jeff Bailey - $400K
LF - Jason Bay - $7.5MM
CF - Coco Crisp - $5.75MM
RF - J.D. Drew - $14MM
OF - Jacoby Ellsbury - $406K
DH - David Ortiz - $12.5MM

SP - Josh Beckett - $10.5MM
SP - Daisuke Matsuzaka - $8MM
SP - Jon Lester - $422K
SP - Tim Wakefield - $4MM (club option)
SP - Clay Buchholz - $400K

RP - Jonathan Papelbon - $775K+
RP - Justin Masterson - $400K
RP - Hideki  Okajima - $1.75MM
RP - Manny Delcarmen - $421K
RP - Javier Lopez - $840K+
RP - David Aardsma - $404K
RP - Michael Bowden - $400K

That's about $94MM committed, plus arbitration raises to Cash, Youkilis, Papelbon, and Lopez.  Those should nudge the Sox over $100MM.  They began the season with a $133MM payroll, and began '07 at $143MM.  The Red Sox have a significant amount of money to spend.


The same article then gives this analysis:

Quote
The catcher situation needs to be addressed.  The Sox may offer Jason Varitek a one-year deal, or they could consider a free agent like Ivan Rodriguez.  The Rangers' Gerald Laird would be a fine trade target, as he does not require seasoning and is under control for two more seasons.  Bengie Molina and Ramon Hernandez also may be available.  Joel Sherman suggests Russell Martin could hit the block; the price would be very steep.

Some of Boston's veteran contracts are starting to look worse, particularly Lowell and Ortiz.  Still, neither player performed poorly this year.  The Red Sox don't have a true albatross contract, though the $18MM owed to Lugo is bothersome.

There is not a clear place to add an offensive player aside from catcher.  The Sox might take a look at Mark Teixeira, probably to drive the price up more than anything.  They can afford him, but then they'd probably have to trade Lowell.

Boston's '09 rotation is already above-average, especially if Buchholz gets back on track.  Masterson and Bowden could also be rotation candidates.  Wakefield is an easy call to exercise at $4MM.  Like Teixeira, the Red Sox don't need C.C. Sabathia.  Still, signing him would keep the best available pitcher away from the Yankees.  It would not be surprising to see the Sox make an aggressive bid for C.C.

Most of the bullpen should return; maybe the Sox will make a minor reliever signing to eat up some of Mike Timlin's innings.

The Red Sox are sitting pretty for '09, with catching the only glaring need.  After that, GM Theo Epstein will have a lot of cash to spend on players who might be considered luxuries.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Re: who will the redsox target for 08/09 FA, who will they trade
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2008, 06:20:15 PM »

Offline Toine43

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Man, it's amazing how many key players we have that are earning next to nothing. Our best postseason pitcher, our lights out closer, our best two hitters. Not what you would expect out of a big market team.


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Re: who will the redsox target for 08/09 FA, who will they trade
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2008, 12:04:54 AM »

Offline MBz

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Not sure if it's logical with money, but what do you guys think about bringing Nomar back?  He can play 1st, 3rd and SS, I don't think Casey or Kotsay will be coming back, but I think Nomar could be a solid bat off the bench.  I don't think he'll command much money.  He could be help on a bench that wasn't very strong this year.
do it

Re: who will the redsox target for 08/09 FA, who will they trade
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2008, 12:56:33 AM »

Offline pizzle214

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I love the Derek Lowe idea. Easily one of my favorite pitchers of all time. He can be very commanding with his sinker. V-Tek just didn't show up this year, i dont know if something is going on with him or if he's past his prime. I also the the salt/ ida from texas. Very young and very talented. I like lowrie but if they can get a more experienced SS for a couple of years i say go for it. Lugo and Crisp are iffy, i wouldn't mind seeing them go. I like Bay and Kotsay. I believe Lowell and Papi are going to have big years next year. They have to prove themselves after their injury riddled seasons. You just can't give up a gold-glove third basemen even if yook did a great job filling in. Masterson i think has big time starter potential if he uses his change-up more. Became a little predictable with throwing his slider/fastball combo too much. Buch. needs to prove himself. didn't impress me this year, i say look out for him next year though, feeling big potential out of him. He's proven he has a big fastball etc... If they do end up going for a power hitting outfilder i like Holliday, he's very talented even though i like Bay alot.

Re: who will the redsox target for 08/09 FA, who will they trade
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2008, 03:06:37 AM »

Offline Triboy16

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lots of rumors going around about redsox planning to make a big splash this summer and i really believe it.

matt holliday is a guy redsox will want to snatch and get him away from angels and yankees. 2 important factors in getting him is satisfying what the rockies want in return and satisfying holliday on dollar matters. Holliday did sign this past year a 2 year 25 million dollar (about 13 a season). With boras the devil repping him he will up the ante and demand somewhere in the high 10's per year.

Who i see the sox give up for holliday and say fuentes are bay(they could try to actually work out a long term deal or deal him also for more prospects), bucholz (even though he struggled i still think they want him), bowden(nothing to cry about losing).

Bay is not really figured to be in the redsox long term plan , not for a 1 for 1 replacement of manny. You can't go from having guys like ortiz and manny and then when manny leaves for everyone else to try to make up the slack. And with 30 million coming off the books the question will be why not try to get better at least close to the team when we did have manny




Re: who will the redsox target for 08/09 FA, who will they trade
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2008, 06:01:18 AM »

Offline crownsy

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lots of rumors going around about redsox planning to make a big splash this summer and i really believe it.

matt holliday is a guy redsox will want to snatch and get him away from angels and yankees. 2 important factors in getting him is satisfying what the rockies want in return and satisfying holliday on dollar matters. Holliday did sign this past year a 2 year 25 million dollar (about 13 a season). With boras the devil repping him he will up the ante and demand somewhere in the high 10's per year.

Who i see the sox give up for holliday and say fuentes are bay(they could try to actually work out a long term deal or deal him also for more prospects), bucholz (even though he struggled i still think they want him), bowden(nothing to cry about losing).

Bay is not really figured to be in the redsox long term plan , not for a 1 for 1 replacement of manny. You can't go from having guys like ortiz and manny and then when manny leaves for everyone else to try to make up the slack. And with 30 million coming off the books the question will be why not try to get better at least close to the team when we did have manny





they can't move on holliday, who i've heard there not even that high on due to his atrocious road splits, until next year without a trade.

if they go after anyone in FA it will be texira.
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Re: who will the redsox target for 08/09 FA, who will they trade
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2008, 07:29:20 AM »

Offline Chris

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lots of rumors going around about redsox planning to make a big splash this summer and i really believe it.

matt holliday is a guy redsox will want to snatch and get him away from angels and yankees. 2 important factors in getting him is satisfying what the rockies want in return and satisfying holliday on dollar matters. Holliday did sign this past year a 2 year 25 million dollar (about 13 a season). With boras the devil repping him he will up the ante and demand somewhere in the high 10's per year.

Who i see the sox give up for holliday and say fuentes are bay(they could try to actually work out a long term deal or deal him also for more prospects), bucholz (even though he struggled i still think they want him), bowden(nothing to cry about losing).

Bay is not really figured to be in the redsox long term plan , not for a 1 for 1 replacement of manny. You can't go from having guys like ortiz and manny and then when manny leaves for everyone else to try to make up the slack. And with 30 million coming off the books the question will be why not try to get better at least close to the team when we did have manny





So you want them to give up their #1 and 2 pitching prospects just to try to slightly upgrade from Bay to Holliday (not even sure if it is an upgrade)?  And this isn't even looking at the fact that Holliday will be a FA after next year.  No chance that happens.

There is no way they trade both of those guys...one maybe, but not both.  But if they do trade them, it will be going after a catcher like Russell Martin, a SS, or more likely a starter like Peavy.

BTW, I am pretty sure Fuentes is a FA.

Re: who will the redsox target for 08/09 FA, who will they trade
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2008, 10:20:13 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Just because I am a helpful type of guy here's list of this year's free agents:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/2009-mlb-free-a.html

Quote
Catchers
Brad Ausmus (40)
Paul Bako (37)
Rod Barajas (33) - $2.5MM club option for '09 with a $0.5MM buyout
Josh Bard (31)
Michael Barrett (32)
Henry Blanco (37) - $3MM mutual option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout
Johnny Estrada (33)
Toby Hall (33) - $2.25MM club option for '09 with a $0.15MM buyout
Jason LaRue (35)
Paul Lo Duca (37)
Miguel Olivo (30) - $2.7MM mutual option for '09 with a $0.1MM buyout
Ivan Rodriguez (37)
David Ross (32)
Javier Valentin (33)
Jason Varitek (37)
Gregg Zaun (38)

First basemen
Rich Aurilia (37)
Hank Blalock (28) - $6.2MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Sean Casey (34)
Tony Clark (37)
Carlos Delgado (37) - $12MM club option for '09 with a $4MM buyout
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Jason Giambi (38) - $22MM club option for '09 with a $5MM buyout
Eric Hinske (31)
Doug Mientkiewicz (35)
Kevin Millar (37)
Richie Sexson (34)
Mark Teixeira (29)
Daryle Ward (34)

Second basemen
Willie Bloomquist (31)
Craig Counsell (38)
Ray Durham (37)
Damion Easley (39)
David Eckstein (34)
Mark Grudzielanek (39)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)
Orlando Hudson (31)
Tadahito Iguchi (34)
Jeff Kent (41)
Felipe Lopez (29)
Mark Loretta (37)
Nick Punto (31)

Shortstops
Willie Bloomquist (31)
Orlando Cabrera (34)
Alex Cintron (30)
Alex Cora (33)
Craig Counsell (38)
David Eckstein (34)
Adam Everett (32)
Rafael Furcal (31)
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)
Cesar Izturis (29)
Felipe Lopez (29)
Edgar Renteria (33)
Juan Uribe (30)
Ramon Vazquez (32)
Omar Vizquel (42) - $5.2MM club option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout

Third basemen
Rich Aurilia (37)
Casey Blake (35)
Hank Blalock (28) - $6.2MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Willie Bloomquist (31)
Aaron Boone (36)
Russell Branyan (33)
Craig Counsell (38)
Joe Crede (31)
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Mark Loretta (37)
Fernando Tatis (34)
Juan Uribe (30)
Ramon Vazquez (32)

Left fielders
Moises Alou (42)
Garret Anderson (37) - $14MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Milton Bradley (31)
Emil Brown (34)
Pat Burrell (32)
Adam Dunn (29)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Luis Gonzalez (41)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)
Raul Ibanez (37)
Gabe Kapler (33)
Kevin Mench (31)
Jason Michaels (33) - $2.6MM club option for '09
Craig Monroe (32)
Greg Norton (36)
Jay Payton (36)
Wily Mo Pena (27) - $5MM club option or $2MM player option for '09
Manny Ramirez (37)
Juan Rivera (30)
Fernando Tatis (34)

Center fielders
Rocco Baldelli (27)
Willie Bloomquist (31)
Mike Cameron (36) - $10MM club option for '09 with a $750K buyout
Jim Edmonds (39)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)
Gabe Kapler (33)
Mark Kotsay (33)
Corey Patterson (29)
Scott Podsednik (33)

Right fielders
Bobby Abreu (35)
Casey Blake (35)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Brian Giles (38) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Ken Griffey Jr. (39) - $16.5MM club option for '09 with a $4MM buyout
Vladimir Guerrero (33) - $15MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Gabe Kapler (33)
Jason Michaels (33) - $2.6MM club option for '09
Fernando Tatis (34)
Brad Wilkerson (32)

DHs
Milton Bradley (31)
Pat Burrell (32)
Adam Dunn (29)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Jason Giambi (38) - $22MM club option for '09 with $5MM buyout
Vladimir Guerrero (33) - $15MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Raul Ibanez (37)
Manny Ramirez (37)
Juan Rivera (30)
Mike Sweeney (35)
Frank Thomas (41)
Jose Vidro (34)

Starting pitchers
Kris Benson (33)
A.J. Burnett (32) - can opt out after '08 season
Paul Byrd (38)
Roger Clemens (46)
Matt Clement (33)
Bartolo Colon (36)
Ryan Dempster (32)
Shawn Estes (36)
Josh Fogg (32)
Freddy Garcia (33)
Jon Garland (29)
Tom Glavine (43)
Mike Hampton (36)
Mark Hendrickson (35)
Livan Hernandez (34)
Orlando Hernandez (43)
Jason Jennings (30)
Randy Johnson (45)
John Lackey (30) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $0.5MM buyout
Jon Lieber (39)
Braden Looper (34)
Rodrigo Lopez (33) - club option for '09
Derek Lowe (36)
Greg Maddux (43)
Pedro Martinez (37)
Sergio Mitre (28)
Jamie Moyer (46)
Mark Mulder (31)
Mike Mussina (40)
Carl Pavano (33) - $13MM club option for '09 with a $1.95MM buyout
Brad Penny (31) - $8.75MM club option for '09 with a $2MM buyout
Odalis Perez (32)
Oliver Perez (27)
Andy Pettitte (37)
Sidney Ponson (32)
Mark Prior (27)
Kenny Rogers (44)
Glendon Rusch (34)
C.C. Sabathia (28)
Curt Schilling (42)
Ben Sheets (30)
John Smoltz (42)
Tim Wakefield (42) - perpetual $4MM club option
Kip Wells (32)
Randy Wolf (32)

Closers
Brian Fuentes (33)
Eric Gagne (33)
Eddie Guardado (38)
Trevor Hoffman (41)
Jason Isringhausen (36)
Brandon Lyon (29)
Francisco Rodriguez (27)
Salomon Torres (37) - $3.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout
Kerry Wood (32)

Middle relievers
Jeremy Affeldt (30)
Luis Ayala (31)
Joe Beimel (32)
Joe Borowski (38)
Doug Brocail (42)
Shawn Chacon (31)
Juan Cruz (30)
Alan Embree (39) - $3MM club option for '09
Scott Eyre (37)
Kyle Farnsworth (33)
Casey Fossum (31)
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Re: who will the redsox target for 08/09 FA, who will they trade
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2008, 10:35:38 AM »

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  • Ray Allen
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Who i see the sox give up for holliday and say fuentes are bay(they could try to actually work out a long term deal or deal him also for more prospects), bucholz (even though he struggled i still think they want him), bowden(nothing to cry about losing).

Bay is not really figured to be in the redsox long term plan , not for a 1 for 1 replacement of manny. You can't go from having guys like ortiz and manny and then when manny leaves for everyone else to try to make up the slack. And with 30 million coming off the books the question will be why not try to get better at least close to the team when we did have manny



Are you kidding about the Bowden comment?  I really hope so.  He is likely to be in the Boston Bullpen by the end of next year, and in there rotation the following year.  As a 21 year old kid, he had a 2.33 era in AA.  He looked very good at AAA at the end of the year.  He would be a major prospect to lose.

I hate to say it, but Bay will probably put up better numbers in Boston then Holliday would.  His road splits are way too awful to ignore.  Not to mention that you get Bay for 7.5 million rather then 15-20.  Not to mention that you also dont give up 2 MLB quality pitching prospects, who you would have under control at reasonable costs for the foreseeable future.  Not only does it make no sense at all to make the trade you are suggesting, it flies in the face of everything this organization is doing with the Sox.  no way they do it.  no way.