what are the position battles at camp?

[jay]

we know the first  guys, so will be the backups?

Center:  is it Obryant by default or will Davis or Scal play out of position?

PF: Powe or Davis?

SF: Miles or Walker?

SG: Tony or Giddens?

PG: Cassell, Pruitt, or House?


Will Pruitt get a look at SG?

Can Giddens back up SF if he doesnt beat out Tony?


Who gets cut?

[Greg]

Holy crap... please don't tell me you just mentioned the possibility of playing Scal at center.  I just choked on my orange juice. 

But overall, your battles are pretty on target.

Powe vs. Davis, O'Bryant vs. Davis or himself (depending on how you look at it), Miles vs. Walker, the point guards.

However, I don't think Tony vs. Giddens is a battle at all - Tony's got the upper hand there.  And unless we're playing real small ball, I wouldn't expect him to fill in at the 3 (and I realize he is a great rebounder and a potentially impact defender).

Pruitt could get a look at SG, but I think we're pretty log-jamnmed at the one and the two.

[jay]

Holy crap... please don't tell me you just mentioned the possibility of playing Scal at center.  I just choked on my orange juice. 

sorry.  i think scal is the odd man out.  if we cut him, we will be very thin upfront.  powe isnt the biggest 4 in the world and BBD is a short center.  Can we go with just 5 guys at the 4/5.  Can Miles paly the 4 a little like Posey did last year? 

If Scal is cut and we keep Walker, Giddens, etc.  We will be really athletic. I dont know if Danny will do it though, Pruitt seems more likely to be gone. 

[crownsy]

i don't really think back up PG is a battle. it's going to be house. If you think he signed a 2 year deal without assurances that cassell (who was already runnign his mouth about coming back) was going to be third gaurd in, your crazy imo.

Eddie could have gone places and gotten legit minutes, no way he signs for us for 2 years without a little *wink* in regards to playing time.

[Chris]

Holy crap... please don't tell me you just mentioned the possibility of playing Scal at center.  I just choked on my orange juice. 

sorry.  i think scal is the odd man out.  if we cut him, we will be very thin upfront.  powe isnt the biggest 4 in the world and BBD is a short center.  Can we go with just 5 guys at the 4/5.  Can Miles paly the 4 a little like Posey did last year? 

If Scal is cut and we keep Walker, Giddens, etc.  We will be really athletic. I dont know if Danny will do it though, Pruitt seems more likely to be gone. 

I think Scal is in the battle at both Center and SF.  He just has so much versatility, and brings the defense that they can't get from many of the other guys on the bench (at least not yet).  I hope he gets beat out...but he will likely stick around, unless they can trade him for another veteran.

I also expect Miles to get a lot of minutes at the PF spot.  Doc loves to play with a quicker lineup, and Miles has plenty of length to be able to compete with the other PFs in the league.  I think against most teams in the league, you will see Miles as the first PF off the bench, and Powe come in at Center.  In the Celtics defensive scheme, they can get away with being undersized against many teams in the league.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they end up cutting Cassell, and then trying to bring him back at midseason, if Pruitt doesn't pan out.

[Chris]

i don't really think back up PG is a battle. it's going to be house. If you think he signed a 2 year deal without assurances that cassell (who was already runnign his mouth about coming back) was going to be third gaurd in, your crazy imo.

Eddie could have gone places and gotten legit minutes, no way he signs for us for 2 years without a little *wink* in regards to playing time.

What makes you think they would promise House the backup PG position?  The fact that they did everything humanly possible to make sure he was NOT playing PG last year.  The fact that they were actually experimenting with playing Tony Allen at the PG, so House could play SG?

I think House is pretty much guaranteed to be part of the rotation (although he will likely drop in minutes come playoff time again), but I don't think they want it to be as the PG.  They want him to be able to play off the ball.

[Roy Hobbs]

i don't really think back up PG is a battle. it's going to be house. If you think he signed a 2 year deal without assurances that cassell (who was already runnign his mouth about coming back) was going to be third gaurd in, your crazy imo.

Eddie could have gone places and gotten legit minutes, no way he signs for us for 2 years without a little *wink* in regards to playing time.

What makes you think they would promise House the backup PG position?  The fact that they did everything humanly possible to make sure he was NOT playing PG last year.  The fact that they were actually experimenting with playing Tony Allen at the PG, so House could play SG?

I think House is pretty much guaranteed to be part of the rotation (although he will likely drop in minutes come playoff time again), but I don't think they want it to be as the PG.  They want him to be able to play off the ball.

This only works if Doc mixes his bench with his starters more this year, though.  If Doc tried to go with an "all bench" lineup of Eddie at the 2 and, say, Tony at the 3 (with Sam at the 1) things could get messy.

I think Eddie will be used primarily as a backup PG, with Tony as the primary backup 2/3.  The team has been working on Eddie's ball-handling a lot in training camp, subjecting him to pressure.  That suggests to me that they see a large part of his role as backup PG.

Right now, I think we're realistically looking at an 11 man rotation, with Walker, Giddens, Scal, and Pruitt the odd men out.  I expect everyone else to play based upon who Doc feels has the hot hand.  (That unfortunately means one of Powe/BBD, and one of Eddie/Sam, will probably be unhappy at times, but that's the roster we have.)

(And yes, I expect Miles to get cut if there isn't a trade.)

[Chris]

i don't really think back up PG is a battle. it's going to be house. If you think he signed a 2 year deal without assurances that cassell (who was already runnign his mouth about coming back) was going to be third gaurd in, your crazy imo.

Eddie could have gone places and gotten legit minutes, no way he signs for us for 2 years without a little *wink* in regards to playing time.

What makes you think they would promise House the backup PG position?  The fact that they did everything humanly possible to make sure he was NOT playing PG last year.  The fact that they were actually experimenting with playing Tony Allen at the PG, so House could play SG?

I think House is pretty much guaranteed to be part of the rotation (although he will likely drop in minutes come playoff time again), but I don't think they want it to be as the PG.  They want him to be able to play off the ball.

This only works if Doc mixes his bench with his starters more this year, though.  If Doc tried to go with an "all bench" lineup of Eddie at the 2 and, say, Tony at the 3 (with Sam at the 1) things could get messy.

I think Eddie will be used primarily as a backup PG, with Tony as the primary backup 2/3.  The team has been working on Eddie's ball-handling a lot in training camp, subjecting him to pressure.  That suggests to me that they see a large part of his role as backup PG.

Right now, I think we're realistically looking at an 11 man rotation, with Walker, Giddens, Scal, and Pruitt the odd men out.  I expect everyone else to play based upon who Doc feels has the hot hand.  (That unfortunately means one of Powe/BBD, and one of Eddie/Sam, will probably be unhappy at times, but that's the roster we have.)

(And yes, I expect Miles to get cut if there isn't a trade.)

We'll see, I just watched an entire season of a team desperate to have House play off the ball, and then to see them sign him again, I would have to imagine it was not to play on the ball.

And by the way, I think the idea that the reason House is a bad PG because he can't dribble is not really true.  He is a bad PG because he can't initiate an offense and make plays.  It isn't just because of his dribbling, it has more to do with his lack of passing, or overall "floor general" skills. For example, I don't think he is a worse dribbler than Delonte West, but West is a much better PG (although he is flawed too), because he knows how to initiate the offense, he knows who to pass the ball to, and most importantly, he knows how to set up passes. 

Whenever House is playing on the ball, the offense goes backwards.  He rarely makes any passes or moves that actually progress the offense.  This means that he doesn't turn the ball over much, but it also means that he is completely reliant on someone else to make something happen, which generally is the role of a "PG".  Seriously, just go back and watch some film from last season, and see if you can count the number of times he makes a pass that leads to a basket without them needing to "reset".

[Roy Hobbs]

We'll see, I just watched an entire season of a team desperate to have House play off the ball, and then to see them sign him again, I would have to imagine it was not to play on the ball.

I think you're overstating things, Chris.  House played 30% of the team's overall minutes at PG last season, as compared to only 6% of the SG minutes.  That's even after acquiring Sam.  I'm not sure how desperate they were to avoid Eddie at PG. 

And by the way, I think the idea that the reason House is a bad PG because he can't dribble is not really true.  He is a bad PG because he can't initiate an offense and make plays.  It isn't just because of his dribbling, it has more to do with his lack of passing, or overall "floor general" skills. For example, I don't think he is a worse dribbler than Delonte West, but West is a much better PG (although he is flawed too), because he knows how to initiate the offense, he knows who to pass the ball to, and most importantly, he knows how to set up passes. 

See, I don't really buy that.  The team averaged 109.3 points per 100 possessions with Eddie as PG.  That's a very, very good number.  The percentage of assisted baskets scored actually went *up* with Eddie in the game, while the other offensive numbers only dipped slightly from Rondo.  The thought that the offense struggles with him in there just isn't accurate.

Whenever House is playing on the ball, the offense goes backwards.  He rarely makes any passes or moves that actually progress the offense.  This means that he doesn't turn the ball over much, but it also means that he is completely reliant on someone else to make something happen, which generally is the role of a "PG".  Seriously, just go back and watch some film from last season, and see if you can count the number of times he makes a pass that leads to a basket without them needing to "reset".

See above.  At least statistically, your observations don't seem to be accurate.  (Now, if you want to talk about somebody who stagnated the offense, it would be Cassell.  The team averaged 103.5 pts/100 with him in there, or 5.8 pts/100 less than House, and 8.8 less than when he wasn't on the court.)

[crownsy]

Whenever House is playing on the ball, the offense goes backwards.  He rarely makes any passes or moves that actually progress the offense.  This means that he doesn't turn the ball over much, but it also means that he is completely reliant on someone else to make something happen, which generally is the role of a "PG".  Seriously, just go back and watch some film from last season, and see if you can count the number of times he makes a pass that leads to a basket without them needing to "reset".

have to seriousy disagree with you here. Eddie often had good floor spacing, and actually kept the offense moving quite well and passing continues to be crisp, as roy's numbers show.

What you seem to have discribed here is sam cassell. Eddie was guilty of many things last season, slowing down the offense due to non-aggresivness wasen't one of them.

[Chris]

We'll see, I just watched an entire season of a team desperate to have House play off the ball, and then to see them sign him again, I would have to imagine it was not to play on the ball.

I think you're overstating things, Chris.  House played 30% of the team's overall minutes at PG last season, as compared to only 6% of the SG minutes.  That's even after acquiring Sam.  I'm not sure how desperate they were to avoid Eddie at PG. 

I don't know if I am overstating it.  I think the fact that from the preseason on, Doc was often talking about allowing House to play off the ball.  Combine that with the fact that they brought in Cassell, and gave Cassell WAY too long a rope, in order to avoid having House play PG, and I think there is a case there.

And by the way, I think the idea that the reason House is a bad PG because he can't dribble is not really true.  He is a bad PG because he can't initiate an offense and make plays.  It isn't just because of his dribbling, it has more to do with his lack of passing, or overall "floor general" skills. For example, I don't think he is a worse dribbler than Delonte West, but West is a much better PG (although he is flawed too), because he knows how to initiate the offense, he knows who to pass the ball to, and most importantly, he knows how to set up passes. 

See, I don't really buy that.  The team averaged 109.3 points per 100 possessions with Eddie as PG.  That's a very, very good number.  The percentage of assisted baskets scored actually went *up* with Eddie in the game, while the other offensive numbers only dipped slightly from Rondo.  The thought that the offense struggles with him in there just isn't accurate.

I think we are talking about two different things here.  I am talking about having House run the PG position.  Although he technically lined up at that position 30% of the time, the amount that he was actually running the offense was much lower. 

And I should say, this is not because I don't like House, or I think Doc doesn't like him.  This is because I believe (and Doc has said numerous times) that House is much more effective playing OFF the ball, than on the ball.  So ideally, they would have him guarding PGs, but playing SG on offense.  Which generally how it was when he played with the first unit last year, as well as when he played with Tony Allen.

Whenever House is playing on the ball, the offense goes backwards.  He rarely makes any passes or moves that actually progress the offense.  This means that he doesn't turn the ball over much, but it also means that he is completely reliant on someone else to make something happen, which generally is the role of a "PG".  Seriously, just go back and watch some film from last season, and see if you can count the number of times he makes a pass that leads to a basket without them needing to "reset".

See above.  At least statistically, your observations don't seem to be accurate.  (Now, if you want to talk about somebody who stagnated the offense, it would be Cassell.  The team averaged 103.5 pts/100 with him in there, or 5.8 pts/100 less than House, and 8.8 less than when he wasn't on the court.)

Again, the stats don't show when he was running the offense, versus when he was just standing on the backside of the play waiting for a kickout.  I think he is a very effective player off the ball, and will be incredibly important to this team's success.  I just expect one of the other PG to be getting a lot of time running the offense for the second team this year.

[Chris]

Whenever House is playing on the ball, the offense goes backwards.  He rarely makes any passes or moves that actually progress the offense.  This means that he doesn't turn the ball over much, but it also means that he is completely reliant on someone else to make something happen, which generally is the role of a "PG".  Seriously, just go back and watch some film from last season, and see if you can count the number of times he makes a pass that leads to a basket without them needing to "reset".

have to seriousy disagree with you here. Eddie often had good floor spacing, and actually kept the offense moving quite well and passing continues to be crisp, as roy's numbers show.

What you seem to have discribed here is sam cassell. Eddie was guilty of many things last season, slowing down the offense due to non-aggresivness wasen't one of them.

All Eddie did effectively was swing the ball around the perimeter, so that one of the other players could make a play, and then wait for the ball to swing back to him when he is open.  He played the role of a SG perfectly.  But was NOT a good PG. 

[Birdbrain]

I don't get the need to label House as either PG or SG.  He's going dribble the ball up the court and pass it to Pierce if he's in the game then Paul will distribute the ball.  And of course if Rondo's in the game he'll distribute the ball.  There are going to be about 5 minutes a game that Eddie will have to distribute where either Rondo or Pierce aren't in the game.  I think he can handle the load.  House is at his best playing off the ball but, he's not the worst passer.  He just has a hard time breaking down a defense.

[Chris]

I don't get the need to label House as either PG or SG.  He's going dribble the ball up the court and pass it to Pierce if he's in the game then Paul will distribute the ball.  And of course if Rondo's in the game he'll distribute the ball.  There are going to be about 5 minutes a game that Eddie will have to distribute where either Rondo or Pierce aren't in the game.  I think he can handle the load.  House is at his best playing off the ball but, he's not the worst passer.  He just has a hard time breaking down a defense.

OK, I agree with this.  To me, the important question is not whether House is a PG or SG, but whether he is going to be blocking Cassell and Pruitt from seeing minutes.  I don't think he will.  Whether you want to say that is because Cassell and Pruitt are seeing minutes as SG, or House is seeing minutes as SG, it doesn't really matter.

[crownsy]

Whenever House is playing on the ball, the offense goes backwards.  He rarely makes any passes or moves that actually progress the offense.  This means that he doesn't turn the ball over much, but it also means that he is completely reliant on someone else to make something happen, which generally is the role of a "PG".  Seriously, just go back and watch some film from last season, and see if you can count the number of times he makes a pass that leads to a basket without them needing to "reset".

have to seriousy disagree with you here. Eddie often had good floor spacing, and actually kept the offense moving quite well and passing continues to be crisp, as roy's numbers show.

What you seem to have discribed here is sam cassell. Eddie was guilty of many things last season, slowing down the offense due to non-aggresivness wasen't one of them.

All Eddie did effectively was swing the ball around the perimeter, so that one of the other players could make a play, and then wait for the ball to swing back to him when he is open.  He played the role of a SG perfectly.  But was NOT a good PG. 

by this defintion, rondo doesn't run our offense.

on a typical game, rondo would get 6-8 of 35-40 assists. Thats a terrable percentage if all your using to dictate whether the PG ran the offense well is if he made the pass that lead to the bucket.

Our entire offense is based on swinging the ball around 5-6 times until an open shot present's itself, regardless of position.

It's the EXACT same thing rondo does. why is it a knock against Eddie and a plus for rondo that thier unselfish?