what are the position battles at camp?

[cordialb]

With the starters set, i honestly see this as a battle for rotation spots instead of straight positions.  Posey last year wasnt necessarily our best 4, but played there a lot b/c he was our best option.  

Coaching involves finding your best players, and putting them in the best position to make plays.  If your 8 or 9 best players are guard heavy, play small and adjust the offense.  

That said, i believe our best players are

Rondo
Allen
Pierce
Garnett
Perkins

House/Giddens
Walker/Tony/Miles
Powe/BBD/O'bryant


Guards - IMO, House is a lock for first guard off the bench.  Sam can be used as a spark or change up in case of an off night or for matchup reasons.  And Tony can be used as a defensive guard against tough matchups.  Giddens will learn and has a chance to challenge tony later on.  Pruitt is talented, but is approaching the point where the 'big potential' better start to at least show through a bit.

Swing - Here is where the real battle is.  Miles/Walker/Tony will compete for the swing spot.  I'd give the edge to walker, but tony and miles bring the ability to play multiple spots.  I'd look for miles/tony to contribute early and walker to work his way into this spot by year end.

F/C - Obryant/Powe/BBD  Much like last year, we have BBD and Powe who are energy guys and will improve this year.  They also have the ability to fill in at the C if needed, but have some matchup problems where length will be needed.  Enter Obryant.  I look for the same rotation as last year based on matchups.  How they all 3 will play during the season will cement who will be used during the playoffs.

I think unless there is a deal to move one or two players, the real decision to cut someone will come down to Pruitts play vs scals expiring contract.  As of now, i'd say scals expiring contract is more important sadly.  

[Chris]

Whenever House is playing on the ball, the offense goes backwards.  He rarely makes any passes or moves that actually progress the offense.  This means that he doesn't turn the ball over much, but it also means that he is completely reliant on someone else to make something happen, which generally is the role of a "PG".  Seriously, just go back and watch some film from last season, and see if you can count the number of times he makes a pass that leads to a basket without them needing to "reset".

have to seriousy disagree with you here. Eddie often had good floor spacing, and actually kept the offense moving quite well and passing continues to be crisp, as roy's numbers show.

What you seem to have discribed here is sam cassell. Eddie was guilty of many things last season, slowing down the offense due to non-aggresivness wasen't one of them.

All Eddie did effectively was swing the ball around the perimeter, so that one of the other players could make a play, and then wait for the ball to swing back to him when he is open.  He played the role of a SG perfectly.  But was NOT a good PG. 

by this defintion, rondo doesn't run our offense.

on a typical game, rondo would get 6-8 of 35-40 assists. Thats a terrable percentage if all your using to dictate whether the PG ran the offense well is if he made the pass that lead to the bucket.

Our entire offense is based on swinging the ball around 5-6 times until an open shot present's itself, regardless of position.

It's the EXACT same thing rondo does. why is it a knock against Eddie and a plus for rondo that thier unselfish?

Who said anything about assists?  It is about making passes that actually move the offense forward.  Whether it is making a pass to the wing, when the guy is in position to make the entry pass, or making the entry pass, when the big man has good position, or breaking down the defense to get the defense on their heels, so that when you then kick the ball out, and the defense is able to catch up with that first guy, they won't be able to rotate to that second guy.

House doesn't do things like that.  Generally, when he swings the ball, he needs guys to come towards him, or away from the rim, which takes them out of position to make the second pass.  If he makes an entry pass, generally it is kicked right back out, because he does not set up the pass beforehand, and the guy is ussually out of position when he recieves it.  And he never gets any penetration, so kicking the ball out is out of the question.

These however are all things that Rondo does very well, which means that he may not pile up the assists, but he does a tremendous job at running the offense.

[crownsy]

Who said anything about assists?  It is about making passes that actually move the offense forward.  Whether it is making a pass to the wing, when the guy is

in position to make the entry pass, or making the entry pass, when the big man has good position, or breaking down the defense to get the defense on their heels, so that when you then kick the ball out, and the defense is able to catch up with that first guy, they won't be able to rotate to that second guy.

House doesn't do things like that.  Generally, when he swings the ball, he needs guys to come towards him, or away from the rim, which takes them out of position to make the second pass.  If he makes an entry pass, generally it is kicked right back out, because he does not set up the pass beforehand, and the guy is ussually out of position when he recieves it.  And he never gets any penetration, so kicking the ball out is out of the question.

I understand your point here, but its increibly sujective. I for one didn't notice any of this, and if were not talkign about assists, then were going to have to agree to disagree on the intrisic value of a house pass vs. a rondo pass.

again, i get what your saying, but this is another one of those points thats based on perception. I'm not going to presume to tell you what you're seeing is wrong, but i just don't see what you do.

[Chris]

Who said anything about assists?  It is about making passes that actually move the offense forward.  Whether it is making a pass to the wing, when the guy is in position to make the entry pass, or making the entry pass, when the big man has good position, or breaking down the defense to get the defense on their heels, so that when you then kick the ball out, and the defense is able to catch up with that first guy, they won't be able to rotate to that second guy.

House doesn't do things like that.  Generally, when he swings the ball, he needs guys to come towards him, or away from the rim, which takes them out of position to make the second pass.  If he makes an entry pass, generally it is kicked right back out, because he does not set up the pass beforehand, and the guy is ussually out of position when he recieves it.  And he never gets any penetration, so kicking the ball out is out of the question.

I understand your point here, but its increibly sujective. I for one didn't notice any of this, and if were not talkign about assists, then were going to have to agree to disagree on the intrisic value of a house pass vs. a rondo pass.

again, i get what your saying, but this is another one of those points thats based on perception. I'm not going to presume to tell you what you're seeing is wrong, but i just don't see what you do.

Absolutely.  It is all very subjective.  But my whole point was that it was not so cut and dry that House was given all of the minutes at PG, just because he was signed to a 2 year deal. 

[MVP]

Regarding House playing pg, I think that it will be much easier for him this year then last. He is a much better fit because he is going to be surrounded by guys who can create shots (TA, Powe, maybe Walker/Miles). Last years 2nd unit had trouble creating shots since neither House/Posey can create a shot, TA wasn't himself and didn't get many minutes, and Powe wasn't at a stage where he could consistently put points on the board. Ray Allen was the guy who played a lot with the 2nd unit and he isn't a slasher either. So the 2nd unit had a bunch of shooters but no slashers. In the playoffs we played Pierce with the 2nd unit for this reason. This year, House will provide much needed spacing for the 2nd unit while TA, Powe, Walker are guys who can slash, create shots and get to the line.

[P2]

The only real position battle I see is the backup SF spot. It really isn't clear as of now who will play most of the minutes: Miles, Walker or Tony.

[Roy Hobbs]

The only real position battle I see is the backup SF spot. It really isn't clear as of now who will play most of the minutes: Miles, Walker or Tony.

You think the backup big men are clear?  I could see this shaking out as POB/Powe, POB/BBD, or BBD/Powe.  It's up in the air.  (I personally think Powe *needs* to get consistent playing time next year; I think he's our best backup big man, by a fairly significant margin based upon performance.)

[Chris]

The only real position battle I see is the backup SF spot. It really isn't clear as of now who will play most of the minutes: Miles, Walker or Tony.

You think the backup big men are clear?  I could see this shaking out as POB/Powe, POB/BBD, or BBD/Powe.  It's up in the air.  (I personally think Powe *needs* to get consistent playing time next year; I think he's our best backup big man, by a fairly significant margin based upon performance.)

Yeah, I think it is Powe's spot to lose.  However, I think you are leaving out one player who could have major implications on Powe's minutes...Miles.  If he does continue to show that he is healthy and able to contribute, I expect him to see a large number of minutes at the PF spot, which would leave Powe in the crunch at the Center spot, which may even the playing field a bit, since he can struggle against much bigger players. 

[Roy Hobbs]

The only real position battle I see is the backup SF spot. It really isn't clear as of now who will play most of the minutes: Miles, Walker or Tony.

You think the backup big men are clear?  I could see this shaking out as POB/Powe, POB/BBD, or BBD/Powe.  It's up in the air.  (I personally think Powe *needs* to get consistent playing time next year; I think he's our best backup big man, by a fairly significant margin based upon performance.)

Yeah, I think it is Powe's spot to lose.  However, I think you are leaving out one player who could have major implications on Powe's minutes...Miles.  If he does continue to show that he is healthy and able to contribute, I expect him to see a large number of minutes at the PF spot, which would leave Powe in the crunch at the Center spot, which may even the playing field a bit, since he can struggle against much bigger players. 

I don't think Darius One Leg is capable of outperforming Powe, and I doubt that he even makes the roster.

[Chris]

The only real position battle I see is the backup SF spot. It really isn't clear as of now who will play most of the minutes: Miles, Walker or Tony.

You think the backup big men are clear?  I could see this shaking out as POB/Powe, POB/BBD, or BBD/Powe.  It's up in the air.  (I personally think Powe *needs* to get consistent playing time next year; I think he's our best backup big man, by a fairly significant margin based upon performance.)

Yeah, I think it is Powe's spot to lose.  However, I think you are leaving out one player who could have major implications on Powe's minutes...Miles.  If he does continue to show that he is healthy and able to contribute, I expect him to see a large number of minutes at the PF spot, which would leave Powe in the crunch at the Center spot, which may even the playing field a bit, since he can struggle against much bigger players. 

I don't expect Miles to make the team.

If that happens (which wouldn't surprise me at all...but I want to actually see him play before making any judgement), then I really think Powe would have to really regress (or Davis AND POB would have to really step it up) to not be a regular member of the rotation.  But yeah, there is definitely still some competition there, as there always is when you have several players with holes in their games.

[Roy Hobbs]

The only real position battle I see is the backup SF spot. It really isn't clear as of now who will play most of the minutes: Miles, Walker or Tony.

You think the backup big men are clear?  I could see this shaking out as POB/Powe, POB/BBD, or BBD/Powe.  It's up in the air.  (I personally think Powe *needs* to get consistent playing time next year; I think he's our best backup big man, by a fairly significant margin based upon performance.)

Yeah, I think it is Powe's spot to lose.  However, I think you are leaving out one player who could have major implications on Powe's minutes...Miles.  If he does continue to show that he is healthy and able to contribute, I expect him to see a large number of minutes at the PF spot, which would leave Powe in the crunch at the Center spot, which may even the playing field a bit, since he can struggle against much bigger players. 

I don't expect Miles to make the team.

If that happens (which wouldn't surprise me at all...but I want to actually see him play before making any judgement), then I really think Powe would have to really regress (or Davis AND POB would have to really step it up) to not be a regular member of the rotation.  But yeah, there is definitely still some competition there, as there always is when you have several players with holes in their games.

I agree, but you never know with Doc.  I think the rotation is going to be pretty fluid, which is why I predicted 11 guys would see semi-regular time earlier (everyone but Giddens, Pruitt, Walker, Scal, and Miles, who will be cut).  I think outside of that, there are a bunch of guys who Doc will use interchangeably.  Players may win positions / spots in preseason, but I expect those to be subject to change as soon as regular season games start.

[billysan]

If/when Miles is cut, assuming Roy is right, I think two things will happen.

1-Powe will replace Perk off the bench and Play the 4 going into the post with KG at the 5.

2-Bill Walker will be given every chance to play a few minutes at the backup SF.

I believe that this will happen because Tony Allen will play well as a SG but will underachieve if forced to play SF and handle the ball too much when Eddie House is on the floor. While I like Tony and want to see him do well, I think these are areas he is weak in and will not improve this year, if ever.

Doc simply will not be able to get away with a lineup (defensively) of Rondo/House, Ray, Tony, Pierce and KG against the better teams. Now if he wants to replace Ray with Powe and have Rondo/House, Tony, Pierce, Powe and KG then that is a different story and may be an excellent defensive and offensive lineup.

[Sweet17]

Darius stands a good chance of making the roster from a size persepective alone. Size wise its Perkins, POB, KG, then Miles.. Miles is bigger then Scal, BBD or Powe in "real world" size..not sure about the phony measurements they float around.

Pete

[billysan]

I think that clearly after tonites Xhibition game that Bill Walker and POB are going to have an excellent chance at rotation level minutes if they continue to play like this. Both played well and their aggressive styles, especially Walker, is refreshing. Walker displyed that "I will not be denied" mentality and it was impressive. I love the shotblocking threat that POB will bring off the bench, not to mention the rebounding. I just hope he can do it without KG on the floor consistently.

[crownsy]

so far its quite clear that scal deserves the cut, but since we all know his contract will prevent that and cost us a potenialy useful player, i think miles and pruitt are fighting for that 15th seat on the roster.

i liked what i saw out of both of them, which makes it even more fustrating that one of them will likely be gone in a month to make way for the hamburgler at SF.