Author Topic: The NBA needs a legit "farm" system here in the states.  (Read 8872 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

The NBA needs a legit "farm" system here in the states.
« on: September 25, 2008, 12:00:19 PM »

Offline JSD

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10503
  • Tommy Points: 1255
I agree, the NBA as a whole will benefit from Europe developing it's youth but to the same degree legit Minor league would.

How can Stern, as the leagues CEO, continue to sink money into a failing league (WNBA has recorded a loss in profit every year in business) and not develop an NBA farm system?

It doesn't make sense to me that with the billions the NBA takes in, the popularity of the sport and NBA teams share farm clubs? Its absurd.

I firmly believe here in New England alone we could support 8 Teams:

Lowell, MA
Worcester, MA
Springfield, MA
Providence, RI
Hartford, CT
Manchester, NH
Burlington, VT
Bristol/New Haven CT?

There is underdeveloped youth taking up roster spots as well veterans with gas in the tank losing there jobs to potential. A good system will solve both these issues...
« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 01:09:33 PM by Jsaad »

Re: Let's get a legit Minor league system here in the states!
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2008, 12:30:59 PM »

Offline Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24882
  • Tommy Points: 1133
  • What a Pub Should Be
I think the NBDL is about the best that you're gonna get.  Other than that, you'll have those independent leagues that are floating around the nation (I think there is a current incarnation of the CBA floating around these days).  One of the problems having a "true" minor league system is the limited number of roster spots on an NBA basketball team.  There's not a lot of space to play around with in regards to flexability.

Another thing to consider is the question of fan turnout at these things?  Are people really going to pay and see a bunch of has-beens and once-be college stars running up and down the basketball court hoping to get called up to the big time?  The real legit prospects are going to be on an NBA roster right away so I don't think you'll really see many "up and comers".  One of the features of baseball's minor league system is seeing the "stars of tomorrow". This draws fans. I just don't that type of system in regards to basketball.  Different sports, different dynamics.

The other issue is that it would most likely be competing with college basketball.  I don't like the chances of a NBA "minor league" system going up against college basketball.  College basketball is established and these guys are still amateurs.  Plus you have alumni loyalties and such that will naturally draw in fans.   

Diehards might go but I don't see a minor league drawing in big crowds.  I don't know if the NBA really wants to pump hardcore money into something will, most likely, struggle.  Therefore, the salaries offered will be minimal and most guys will still jump ship to Europe if they can't make the NBA.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Let's get a legit Minor league system here in the states!
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2008, 12:45:20 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17605
  • Tommy Points: 1621
The problem with the current NBA system is the limited roster spots and on who those roster spots are spent. I don't care if it's through a minor league or what not, but the NBA has to allow teams to stockpile their talent some how.

What's the current consequence of the current system? Teams are forced to fill their roster spots on projects and unprepared players. Teams are forced to play lesser players on a roster instead of better proffesionals.

Currently, the only way teams have of going around this roster spot problem is by having rights to a player and sending them to play over Europe. That shouldn't be necessary. Teams should be allowed to keep 20-25 players under contract wether they make the final team roster or not.

This should allow teams to fill their team (the roster that actually plays) with people who are actually NBA ready and able to contribute. It should improve the skill level throughout the season. It'll also allow bad teams to rebuild quicker.

I really don't care how the NBA does it, but a system that allows teams to stockpile talent is a must in my opinion. And it starts by fixing the roster spots situation.

Re: Let's get a legit Minor league system here in the states!
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2008, 12:58:17 PM »

Offline JSD

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10503
  • Tommy Points: 1255
The problem with the current NBA system is the limited roster spots and on who those roster spots are spent. I don't care if it's through a minor league or what not, but the NBA has to allow teams to stockpile their talent some how.

What's the current consequence of the current system? Teams are forced to fill their roster spots on projects and unprepared players. Teams are forced to play lesser players on a roster instead of better proffesionals.

Currently, the only way teams have of going around this roster spot problem is by having rights to a player and sending them to play over Europe. That shouldn't be necessary. Teams should be allowed to keep 20-25 players under contract wether they make the final team roster or not.

This should allow teams to fill their team (the roster that actually plays) with people who are actually NBA ready and able to contribute. It should improve the skill level throughout the season. It'll also allow bad teams to rebuild quicker.

I really don't care how the NBA does it, but a system that allows teams to stockpile talent is a must in my opinion. And it starts by fixing the roster spots situation.

I agree, and a minor league team could provide up to 15 more roster spots...

If I could add, Donoghus,

The NBA can offer more then the NBDL with teams sharing rotating clubs.

Fan turn-out would be better than Hockey and in my opinion fan support would be mediocre to great with sell outs every weekend in the cities I listed. The NBA has a young demographic. Young people in Manchester (for example) will be begging to go to these games.

As far as young prospects: Think Jermaine O'neal, Gerald Green (highlight dunking alone draws crowds) and the Kendrick Perkins of the world.

I would also suggest adding a 3rd round to the NBA draft.

Re: Let's get a legit Minor league system here in the states!
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2008, 01:05:11 PM »

Offline JSD

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10503
  • Tommy Points: 1255
Also, through marketing and the promotion of both there team and the game of basketball NBA Teams would achieve a ROI on a $7 -$10 million a year commitment.

Re: Let's get a legit Minor league system here in the states!
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2008, 01:09:54 PM »

Online nickagneta

  • Global Moderator
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36163
  • Tommy Points: 5939
It will never happen. For all intents and purposes NCAA basketball is the minor leagues for the NBA and it costs the NBA exactly zero dollars to run it. The NCAA takes kids and showcases them and gives them excellent talent to compete with while at the same time giving the young prospects time to mature.

Why would the NBA want to set up a minor league system to develop players that will find it difficult to make a team as the 14th and 15th player on a team when the NCAA is already developing the majority of the 1st round picks that go on to be the stars, starters, and important bench players that make up most of the NBA? There's no incentive financially for them to do so.

Re: Let's get a legit Minor league system here in the states!
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2008, 01:17:42 PM »

Offline jgod213

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2258
  • Tommy Points: 300
The problem with the current NBA system is the limited roster spots and on who those roster spots are spent. I don't care if it's through a minor league or what not, but the NBA has to allow teams to stockpile their talent some how.

What's the current consequence of the current system? Teams are forced to fill their roster spots on projects and unprepared players. Teams are forced to play lesser players on a roster instead of better proffesionals.

Currently, the only way teams have of going around this roster spot problem is by having rights to a player and sending them to play over Europe. That shouldn't be necessary. Teams should be allowed to keep 20-25 players under contract wether they make the final team roster or not.

This should allow teams to fill their team (the roster that actually plays) with people who are actually NBA ready and able to contribute. It should improve the skill level throughout the season. It'll also allow bad teams to rebuild quicker.

I really don't care how the NBA does it, but a system that allows teams to stockpile talent is a must in my opinion. And it starts by fixing the roster spots situation.

I agree, and a minor league team could provide up to 15 more roster spots...

If I could add, Donoghus,

The NBA can offer more then the NBDL with teams sharing rotating clubs.

Fan turn-out would be better than Hockey and in my opinion fan support would be mediocre to great with sell outs every weekend in the cities I listed. The NBA has a young demographic. Young people in Manchester (for example) will be begging to go to these games.

As far as young prospects: Think Jermaine O'neal, Gerald Green (highlight dunking alone draws crowds) and the Kendrick Perkins of the world.

I would also suggest adding a 3rd round to the NBA draft.

I don't know about fan support being "great."

The reason baseball is able to have such a successful minor league system (besides the fact that it's the nation's past time and has more roster flexibility) is because college baseball is pretty much irrelevant compared to other college sports - except for a handful of campuses.

In basketball's case, college basketball is huge and march madness continues to grow in popularity.  Most basketball fans have strong allegiences to either a college program, a pro team, or both.  I don't think you'd see all the 'Heel and Blue Devil faithful lineing up for tickets to see the Durham Dribblers.

I agree that, in places like New England, you could probably get a decent fan base, but i dunno about places like Memphis, Minnesotta, or Oklahoma.  

DKC Utah Jazz
http://tinyurl.com/kqjb3cv

Starters:   Bledsoe-Gordon-Hayward-Patterson-Favors  | 6th-Kanter
Reserves: Warren-Hardaway-Plumlee-Larkin-Evans-Mbakwe-Huestis-Hummel-Calathes

Re: Let's get a legit Minor league system here in the states!
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2008, 01:19:02 PM »

Offline Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24882
  • Tommy Points: 1133
  • What a Pub Should Be
The problem with the current NBA system is the limited roster spots and on who those roster spots are spent. I don't care if it's through a minor league or what not, but the NBA has to allow teams to stockpile their talent some how.

What's the current consequence of the current system? Teams are forced to fill their roster spots on projects and unprepared players. Teams are forced to play lesser players on a roster instead of better proffesionals.

Currently, the only way teams have of going around this roster spot problem is by having rights to a player and sending them to play over Europe. That shouldn't be necessary. Teams should be allowed to keep 20-25 players under contract wether they make the final team roster or not.

This should allow teams to fill their team (the roster that actually plays) with people who are actually NBA ready and able to contribute. It should improve the skill level throughout the season. It'll also allow bad teams to rebuild quicker.

I really don't care how the NBA does it, but a system that allows teams to stockpile talent is a must in my opinion. And it starts by fixing the roster spots situation.

I agree, and a minor league team could provide up to 15 more roster spots...

If I could add, Donoghus,

The NBA can offer more then the NBDL with teams sharing rotating clubs.

Fan turn-out would be better than Hockey and in my opinion fan support would be mediocre to great with sell outs every weekend in the cities I listed. The NBA has a young demographic. Young people in Manchester (for example) will be begging to go to these games.

As far as young prospects: Think Jermaine O'neal, Gerald Green (highlight dunking alone draws crowds) and the Kendrick Perkins of the world.

I would also suggest adding a 3rd round to the NBA draft.

I think you're underestimating the significance of hockey in this region (New England).  Hockey, despite the waning interest in the NHL from the country, is still immensely popular here.  The problem, at least in my opinion, is that the Bruins have been so mediocre for so long that it might seem like the hockey interest is waning here.  Part of the problem, besides the product, is the ridiculous prices charged by Jacobs to attend a game.  For the most part, its more expensive than going to a Celtics game.  That's turned off a lot of people and alienated one of the great fanbases in all of sports (Bruins fans).  

I just thought I'd point out the attendance numbers for some local AHL teams.  I have serious doubts that an NBA farm system team could match these numbers.  Those numbers are pretty impressive (besides Lowell and Worceser post-IceCats) for a minor league.  AHL is one of the primary feeder systems into the NHL.

('07-08 Avg. Attendeance Numbers)

Manchester: 6,706
Providence: 6.107
Portland: 4,861
Hartford: 4,405
Worcester: 4,344
Springfield: 3,481
Lowell: 2,102

From a purely business standpoint, I just don't see the NBA investing in anything signficant for a minor league system.

I don't think people are going to go crazy to see a game involving some 19 year old kid out of high school who was second or third tier in the McDonalds All-American game one or two years ago.  I think most kids who do have NBA potential will do the year in college until they're eligible for the draft.  Under the current situation and using the NBA affiliations suggested, this league can't even use the top high school guys 'cause they're ineligible.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: The NBA needs a legit "farm" system here in the states.
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2008, 01:56:37 PM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642
I think if the NBA could have a true minor league system, it would be great.  It would help both the players, and the league.

However, I just don't see it happening.  It is just way too much money.  The players association won't agree to it unless the players are still getting NBA salaries, and the owners are not going to play NBA salaries for so many players to fill out minor league teams with top talent. Since the main purpose of the minor leagues would be to develop the top young talent (meaning top of the draft guys), its just not going to work.

This is why Stern loves the fact that young players are starting to consider playing in Europe.  He knows that Europe can essentially become their minor leagues.  He knows that even if some players decide to stay in Europe, for every 1 that wants to stay, 100 will be coming right back to the NBA after some seasoning and maturing on someone else's dime.

Re: Let's get a legit Minor league system here in the states!
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2008, 02:12:01 PM »

Offline JSD

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10503
  • Tommy Points: 1255
It will never happen. For all intents and purposes NCAA basketball is the minor leagues for the NBA and it costs the NBA exactly zero dollars to run it. The NCAA takes kids and showcases them and gives them excellent talent to compete with while at the same time giving the young prospects time to mature.

Wow, I can't believe how many Cbers don't but into a legit Minor league system here...

For the players who want to go to College
I believe this system would help NCAA basketball "jeez, if I declare for the NBA now I'll be in the minors anyway. I like this atmosphere, I might as well finish my degree and develop my game here"

For players that don't want to go to college
This system can offer a legitimate alternative and an opportunity to stay in the USA

Quote
Why would the NBA want to set up a minor league system to develop players that will find it difficult to make a team as the 14th and 15th player on a team when the NCAA is already developing the majority of the 1st round picks that go on to be the stars, starters, and important bench players that make up most of the NBA? There's no incentive financially for them to do so.

I'm proposing they drop the age limit back down to 18 years old and add an additional in the draft. The result of this will contribute to a better NBA product as most 18 year olds were not ready to make an impact on an NBA roster but still taking up a roster spot.

I understand what your saying though,It will cost NBA teams money but I believe it's worth the investment.

Re: Let's get a legit Minor league system here in the states!
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2008, 02:20:37 PM »

Offline JSD

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10503
  • Tommy Points: 1255
Quote
I don't think people are going to go crazy to see a game involving some 19 year old kid out of high school who was second or third tier in the McDonalds All-American game one or two years ago.  I think most kids who do have NBA potential will do the year in college until they're eligible for the draft.  Under the current situation and using the NBA affiliations suggested, this league can't even use the top high school guys 'cause they're ineligible.(Donoghus)

I'm suggesting the age limit go back down to 18 and a 3rd round be added to the draft...

Re: Let's get a legit Minor league system here in the states!
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2008, 02:27:36 PM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642
I understand what your saying though,It will cost NBA teams money but I believe it's worth the investment.

Why is it worth the investment though?  If they can't bring in major revenue that will offset the extra expenses of a farm team, and extra players on the payroll, it doesn't make much sense.

Re: Let's get a legit Minor league system here in the states!
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2008, 02:35:23 PM »

Offline JSD

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10503
  • Tommy Points: 1255
Quote
I don't know about fan support being "great."

The reason baseball is able to have such a successful minor league system (besides the fact that it's the nation's past time and has more roster flexibility) is because college baseball is pretty much irrelevant compared to other college sports - except for a handful of campuses.

In basketball's case, college basketball is huge and march madness continues to grow in popularity.  Most basketball fans have strong allegiences to either a college program, a pro team, or both.  I don't think you'd see all the 'Heel and Blue Devil faithful lineing up for tickets to see the Durham Dribblers.

I agree that, in places like New England, you could probably get a decent fan base, but i dunno about places like Memphis, Minnesotta, or Oklahoma.  (jgod213)

I would not suggest the places you've listed...

Areas of the country that would find success


2 coast Leagues
4 divisions
30 Teams

East:

Northeast (New England)

New York & East Central (Buffalo, Albany, Metro, South Jersey ect. Down to the Carolinas)

West:

Coast (Seattle to SD, Fresno, Metro ect.)

West Inland (Tempe, Reno ect.)



I don't think it's unrealistic but I could sure see why it wouldn't happen. I just think it would be cool. :)

Re: Let's get a legit Minor league system here in the states!
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2008, 02:38:09 PM »

Offline JSD

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10503
  • Tommy Points: 1255
I understand what your saying though,It will cost NBA teams money but I believe it's worth the investment.

Why is it worth the investment though?  If they can't bring in major revenue that will offset the extra expenses of a farm team, and extra players on the payroll, it doesn't make much sense.

As I said, through marketing and the promotion of both there team and the game of basketball NBA Teams would achieve a ROI on a $7 -$10 million a year commitment....

Also, think it would also result in a (mature/better) NBA product.

Re: The NBA needs a legit "farm" system here in the states.
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2008, 02:50:42 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17605
  • Tommy Points: 1621
For all I care they could keep the NBDL system as is, but the roster rules have to change. For example, teams should be able to send players to the NBDL without them counting against the 15-man roster.  These protect's the teams insterest in developing young assets (keeping their rights to them), while opening up roster spots for people that can actually perform in the NBA as is.

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsStrong Forums.

Community

Signup to win FREE tickets

* indicates required