Rumor (source unlisted): Celtics might acquire Steven Hunter

[sully00]

I just pop in from time to time but I thought I would throw some things out there.

Leon Powe is not an effective center, by any measure.

I think there may be a problem physically with Kendrick Perkins, he is not playing ball at this point.

If you take all the homerism out of it Leon and Steven Hunter are actually simliar players production wise. 

Powe will be 25 years old with a history of knee problems went for 8ppg and 4rpg last year.  Hunter will be 27 with a history of knee problems went for 6ppg and 5rpg 2 years ago missing most of last year with an injury. 

Obviously the two big differences are size and experience.  Even more significantly 2 years ago Hunter put up 8/6 as a starting center over 41 games.  At the same time there is the idea that Powe could be more but he isn't going to be more playing 10-15 mpg backing up KG. 

With Maxiel getting an offer of 3 years and 15 mil the chances of Leon being back after this season are pretty limited and he is tough to deal because he doesn't make any money.  I think Hunter would actually give this team more value now and and next season as he fits the two year contract window and can play the position the mins are available at and he also has more experience as well as having been a starter in the league.

I also believe one way or another Scal is gone before the season.  Mostly because I actually have a lot of respect for the guy's work ethic and I think he would be in Waltham right now if he thought he had a shot to make this team.

[TradeProposalDude]

I still don't have any news... I talked to him late last night and he told me that players that were in fairly frequently over the last month mostly for weight training are pretty much MIA now and will be back soon when officially right before training camp starts. Beyond that, he says beyond a few rumblings from other employees (note: not players) last week, nothing's new.

And for the few wise guys here, he's not a towel boy. He's a medical records clerk. And he's not in Healthpoint everyday.

[Lucky17]

If you take all the homerism out of it Leon and Steven Hunter are actually simliar players production wise. 

Powe will be 25 years old with a history of knee problems went for 8ppg and 4rpg last year.  Hunter will be 27 with a history of knee problems went for 6ppg and 5rpg 2 years ago missing most of last year with an injury. 

Obviously the two big differences are size and experience.  Even more significantly 2 years ago Hunter put up 8/6 as a starting center over 41 games.  At the same time there is the idea that Powe could be more but he isn't going to be more playing 10-15 mpg backing up KG. 

With Maxiel getting an offer of 3 years and 15 mil the chances of Leon being back after this season are pretty limited and he is tough to deal because he doesn't make any money.  I think Hunter would actually give this team more value now and and next season as he fits the two year contract window and can play the position the mins are available at and he also has more experience as well as having been a starter in the league.

Powe's PER last year as a PF: 24.8; as a C: 21.5. He averaged less than 15 minutes a game, and still averaged 8 and 4.

Hunter's best year, the 2006-07 campaign, he averaged 23 minutes, and put up 6.5 and 5. Production-wise, Powe's better than Hunter. No homerism, the stats back it up.

Also, Powe's history of knee troubles begin and end with his sophomore year in college. If anyone has more recent knee issues/health-related red flags, it's Hunter.

[Redz]

If you take all the homerism out of it Leon and Steven Hunter are actually simliar players production wise. 

Powe will be 25 years old with a history of knee problems went for 8ppg and 4rpg last year.  Hunter will be 27 with a history of knee problems went for 6ppg and 5rpg 2 years ago missing most of last year with an injury. 

Obviously the two big differences are size and experience.  Even more significantly 2 years ago Hunter put up 8/6 as a starting center over 41 games.  At the same time there is the idea that Powe could be more but he isn't going to be more playing 10-15 mpg backing up KG. 

With Maxiel getting an offer of 3 years and 15 mil the chances of Leon being back after this season are pretty limited and he is tough to deal because he doesn't make any money.  I think Hunter would actually give this team more value now and and next season as he fits the two year contract window and can play the position the mins are available at and he also has more experience as well as having been a starter in the league.

Powe's PER last year as a PF: 24.8; as a C: 21.5. He averaged less than 15 minutes a game, and still averaged 8 and 4.

Hunter's best year, the 2006-07 campaign, he averaged 23 minutes, and put up 6.5 and 5. Production-wise, Powe's better than Hunter. No homerism, the stats back it up.

Also, Powe's history of knee troubles begin and end with his sophomore year in college. If anyone has more recent knee issues/health-related red flags, it's Hunter.

Powe's had stretches of offensive dominance in his brief career.  Hunter...ehhh...I think he blocked 6 shots one game (the dude can block some shots)

[guava_wrench]

I know too many ppl have strange love for Scalabrine..BUT..the situation here is not fitting him into the system. Everyone agrees we need a true SF and a true C to add with Perk and Pat0. Assuming we agree that Scal is a wasted contract, you put him with an undersized PF from our logjam, preferably BBDavis b/c Powe outplays him 75% of the time, and you add Pruitt to make room for Cassell. In this trade we add a true C that can block shots and rebound.
I doubt this whole trade revolves around Darius Miles, otherwise he wouldn't have been signed to a NON-guaranteed contract. Danny COULD make this trade happen(BBD not Powe) and we would have Rondo,House,Cassell,Tony,Ray,Pierce,KG,Giddens,Powe,Perk,Pat0,Hunter,BWalker, and Miles is #14. If his knee starts showing problems before February, then Ainge will cut him and add another piece or two from the Contract buyout pile.
Hunter doesn't have an offensive game worth getting excited over, but he's an instant upgrade from BBD just b/c he's a 7 footer with good D in the paint. There's more than enough players out there soon to be bought out that CB fans could be more excited over. Ainge is just trying to paint a bigger picture for us to see(once again, we must assume that this rumor source is legit and this trade is even a possibility.) PLUS if that ended up being our last roster going into the playoffs, WIN or LOSS, look at what next season's options would leave for Ainge...
Expiring contracts of Ray Allen, Tony Allen, Eddie House, Pat0Bryant, and Steven Hunter
Free agents of Darius Miles and Leon Powe (Cassell would then be an Asst Coach or something)
So next season would leave the door open for twice the amount of trade possibilities and free agents signings for us as this year we figure out which of the listed players prove value to the aging Big 3.
Powe would be an obvious signing, Darius miles...who knows. Cassell gone.The future looks good

Plenty of interesting points in everyone's posts, but I think it is short-sighted to evaluate the choice between Powe and BBD on only last season. That was BBD's rookie season. We do not see how he has looked recently playing. Powe clearly had some great playoff moments and BBD didn't impress in the playoffs, but that was last year. Danny and Doc know more about the players.

In principle, I like getting rid of either Powe or BBD to fill a need.

[Champzilla]

Never take trade rumors from towel boys, only ball boys.

[Champzilla]

Celtics are going to the White House on Friday so of course they aren't going to be in Waltham.  I don't even work there and I know more than the towel boy.

[sully00]

Again like I said if you think a guy who put up 8/4 in 56 games no less without a significant injury is that much more productive than a guy who put up 6/5 in 70 I would say you are being a homer.  Beyond PER and other measures is the fact that Hunter actually started 41 games and put up 8/6 which is at least passable for a starting center.

Leon is certainly an explosive player and he can put up numbers and he can also give them up.  There is a reason for the DNPCD 26 times. 

Sure Leon is probably capable of putting up better numbers but will he put them up on the Celtics the next two years I don't know.

[ssspence]

why is there an insistence on putting someone else in this trade besides Veal, just in order to get down to 15 guys? training camp s not even here, there's no need to simply for that reason. the nuggets are cutting costs, and this trade saves them over a million in trading two guys who never play. why would we give up more that scal for.... steven hunter? say it again folks: steven hunter. if we do the tarde to gain a big body, fine. but the idea of adding powe, bbd or even pruitt is fantasy. it'll never happen.

[Lucky17]

Again like I said if you think a guy who put up 8/4 in 56 games no less without a significant injury is that much more productive than a guy who put up 6/5 in 70 I would say you are being a homer.  Beyond PER and other measures is the fact that Hunter actually started 41 games and put up 8/6 which is at least passable for a starting center.

Leon is certainly an explosive player and he can put up numbers and he can also give them up.  There is a reason for the DNPCD 26 times. 

Sure Leon is probably capable of putting up better numbers but will he put them up on the Celtics the next two years I don't know.

Come on now, Sully. How many of Steven Hunter's 41 starts in 2006-07 came after the 76ers went into tank mode after the Webber trade? If it's not all of them, it's darn close.

Hunter managed to beat out players like Ivan McFarlin and Alan Henderson to start, the majority of the time at PF alongside Dalembert, not as the starting center. That's not an endorsement of his abilities, it's an indictment of the 76ers front office for fielding such a poor team. When Hunter "seized" that starting role, he put up underwhelming numbers.

As for Powe's DNPCD's, I seem to recall Doc publicly apologizing for that at some point last season. He had only 3 DNPs in the last half of the season (technically only one was a DNPCD, since he didn't dress for the other two games occurring in the last week of the season).

Call me a homer if you like, but I find no reason to believe that Steven Hunter could help the Celtics next season more than Leon Powe could.

[hwangjini_1]

Wow, people have taken this rumor and ran with it, huh?

its been a long off season with virtually no controvery or new HOF draft choice to argue over. what do you expect?

[Roy Hobbs]

Again like I said if you think a guy who put up 8/4 in 56 games no less without a significant injury is that much more productive than a guy who put up 6/5 in 70 I would say you are being a homer.  Beyond PER and other measures is the fact that Hunter actually started 41 games and put up 8/6 which is at least passable for a starting center.

Leon is certainly an explosive player and he can put up numbers and he can also give them up.  There is a reason for the DNPCD 26 times. 

Sure Leon is probably capable of putting up better numbers but will he put them up on the Celtics the next two years I don't know.

Come on now, Sully. How many of Steven Hunter's 41 starts in 2006-07 came after the 76ers went into tank mode after the Webber trade? If it's not all of them, it's darn close.

Hunter managed to beat out players like Ivan McFarlin and Alan Henderson to start, the majority of the time at PF alongside Dalembert, not as the starting center. That's not an endorsement of his abilities, it's an indictment of the 76ers front office for fielding such a poor team. When Hunter "seized" that starting role, he put up underwhelming numbers.

As for Powe's DNPCD's, I seem to recall Doc publicly apologizing for that at some point last season. He had only 3 DNPs in the last half of the season (technically only one was a DNPCD, since he didn't dress for the other two games occurring in the last week of the season).

Call me a homer if you like, but I find no reason to believe that Steven Hunter could help the Celtics next season more than Leon Powe could.

Agreed.  "Per minute" stats aren't the be all and end all, but they can shed light on a players relative production at time.  Here are the "per 36" stats for Powe last season, and Hunter in his best season ('06-'07):

Powe (per 36): 19.8 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 0.7 apg, 0.7 spg, 0.7 bpg, 1.9 to, 57.2 FG%, 71.0 FT%, 8.6 FTA, 62.9 TS%, 20.9 PER
Hunter (per 36): 10.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.6 apg, 0.3 spg, 1.7 bpg, 1.5 to, 57.7 FG%, 49.0 FT%, 3.4 FTA, 57.3 TS%, 12.3 PER

In other words, Powe is better almost across the board, by a fairly significant margin in terms of scoring, rebounding, and getting to the line.  He's a much better player at this point, he's younger, and he has less of a recent injury history. 

He's better, and there's really no way that the opposite can be argued.  That's why you see those in this thread who want to defend this imaginary deal focusing on secondary effects of the move, rather than the straight Powe-for-Hunter swap.

One more time, though:  there's nothing to this trade as reported, because Danny Ainge isn't a moron.

[sully00]

Again like I said if you think a guy who put up 8/4 in 56 games no less without a significant injury is that much more productive than a guy who put up 6/5 in 70 I would say you are being a homer.  Beyond PER and other measures is the fact that Hunter actually started 41 games and put up 8/6 which is at least passable for a starting center.

Leon is certainly an explosive player and he can put up numbers and he can also give them up.  There is a reason for the DNPCD 26 times. 

Sure Leon is probably capable of putting up better numbers but will he put them up on the Celtics the next two years I don't know.

Come on now, Sully. How many of Steven Hunter's 41 starts in 2006-07 came after the 76ers went into tank mode after the Webber trade? If it's not all of them, it's darn close.

Hunter managed to beat out players like Ivan McFarlin and Alan Henderson to start, the majority of the time at PF alongside Dalembert, not as the starting center. That's not an endorsement of his abilities, it's an indictment of the 76ers front office for fielding such a poor team. When Hunter "seized" that starting role, he put up underwhelming numbers.

As for Powe's DNPCD's, I seem to recall Doc publicly apologizing for that at some point last season. He had only 3 DNPs in the last half of the season (technically only one was a DNPCD, since he didn't dress for the other two games occurring in the last week of the season).

Call me a homer if you like, but I find no reason to believe that Steven Hunter could help the Celtics next season more than Leon Powe could.

See this is what I meant about being a homer.  One guy plays for your team so there are a list of excuses for why he didn't do something and why what he did is greater than it appears.  Then the other guys accomplishments can't even be accepted at face value they have to be discounted even innaccurately.

Chris Webber was traded in the '05-'06 season not '06-'07.  Oddly enough Hunter started 35 games as well and put up 9/5 and the team went 16-19 in his starts.  In '06-'07 the Sixers went 24-17 with Hunter instead of the extremely overpaid Sam Dalembert.

Just the facts.

(Well just the facts except Webber was waived in '06-'07 after playing 18 games)

[Lucky17]

Chris Webber was traded in the '05-'06 season not '06-'07.  Oddly enough Hunter started 35 games as well and put up 9/5 and the team went 16-19 in his starts.  In '06-'07 the Sixers went 24-17 with Hunter instead of the extremely overpaid Sam Dalembert.

Just the facts.

I misspoke: Webber wasn't traded away from Philly, he was released. That's what I was referring to when I mentioned the 76ers going into tank mode in 2006-07.

From Wikipedia:

On January 11, 2007 Sixers GM Billy King announced that the Sixers and Webber had agreed to a reported $25 million contract buyout on the remaining two years left on his contract, in effect paying him not to play. Later that day, the Sixers waived Webber, making him a free agent.

Here's 82games.com breakdown of Hunter's minutes in 2006-07.

http://www.82games.com/0607/06PHI17B.HTM

As you can see, he spent the overwhelming majority of his time on the floor that season alongside Dalembert, not replacing him in the lineup.

You're confusing Hunter's 2005-06 season, when Dalembert was in the doghouse with Cheeks, with the 2006-07 campaign. Interestingly, Hunter played so well during the 2005-06 season that Philly attempted to trade him in February of that year to New Orleans for two 2nd rounders. The trade was rescinded when the Hornets' team doctors got skittish about Hunter's knee.

http://www.nba.com/sixers/news/hunter_060208.html

These are the facts: in the last three seasons, Steven Hunter managed to win a starting job and was almost traded (2005-06), became a default starter again for a very bad team (2006-07), and had knee surgery (2007-08). During those years, when he played, he put up per-minute stats that compare poorly to Leon Powe's last season, as Hobbs has demonstrated.

[BillfromBoston]

Again like I said if you think a guy who put up 8/4 in 56 games no less without a significant injury is that much more productive than a guy who put up 6/5 in 70 I would say you are being a homer.  Beyond PER and other measures is the fact that Hunter actually started 41 games and put up 8/6 which is at least passable for a starting center.

Leon is certainly an explosive player and he can put up numbers and he can also give them up.  There is a reason for the DNPCD 26 times. 

Sure Leon is probably capable of putting up better numbers but will he put them up on the Celtics the next two years I don't know.

Come on now, Sully. How many of Steven Hunter's 41 starts in 2006-07 came after the 76ers went into tank mode after the Webber trade? If it's not all of them, it's darn close.

Hunter managed to beat out players like Ivan McFarlin and Alan Henderson to start, the majority of the time at PF alongside Dalembert, not as the starting center. That's not an endorsement of his abilities, it's an indictment of the 76ers front office for fielding such a poor team. When Hunter "seized" that starting role, he put up underwhelming numbers.

As for Powe's DNPCD's, I seem to recall Doc publicly apologizing for that at some point last season. He had only 3 DNPs in the last half of the season (technically only one was a DNPCD, since he didn't dress for the other two games occurring in the last week of the season).

Call me a homer if you like, but I find no reason to believe that Steven Hunter could help the Celtics next season more than Leon Powe could.

See this is what I meant about being a homer.  One guy plays for your team so there are a list of excuses for why he didn't do something and why what he did is greater than it appears.  Then the other guys accomplishments can't even be accepted at face value they have to be discounted even innaccurately.

Chris Webber was traded in the '05-'06 season not '06-'07.  Oddly enough Hunter started 35 games as well and put up 9/5 and the team went 16-19 in his starts.  In '06-'07 the Sixers went 24-17 with Hunter instead of the extremely overpaid Sam Dalembert.

Just the facts.

(Well just the facts except Webber was waived in '06-'07 after playing 18 games)

Hunter is in no way, shape, or form a comprable player to Leon Powe-this isn't "homer" speak its pure statistical fact....