Author Topic: Agree or disagree: "Bird couldn't make Boston a Celtics town."  (Read 6061 times)

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Agree or disagree: "Bird couldn't make Boston a Celtics town."
« on: September 11, 2008, 07:59:21 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Rick Reilly has a new article up about cities and their allegiances, and the above quote comes from ESPN's teaser.  In the article, Reilly writes:

Quote
BOSTON Red Sox. Once, Boston was a hockey town, and Orr's Bruins ruled. It's never been a Celtics town—despite Russell and Bird—partly because of the finally fading racism. Patriots? Pssshhht. They're not even in Boston. The Red Sox, though, sell out a cramped, rusted ballpark as though there were Hope Diamonds under every seat. Says longtime Boston sports yakker Eddie Andelman: "Who can have a decent conversation about anything else?"

So, simple question:  do you agree or disagree with the sentiment that during the 1980s, the city was still a "Red Sox town"?

From my own perspective, I always thought the Celtics ruled the 80s in Boston.  Sure, people were excited about the Sox in '86, and the Pats in '85, but the level of pride in the Celtics seemed to be off the charts.  I would definitely say that baseball and the Red Sox have historically been the most popular game in town, but I thought that the vibe of the city was very much a "Celtics town" in the 1980s.  It was a long  time ago, though, and I was much younger; perhaps I'm glorifying that era as a Celtics fan.

What does  everybody else think?

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

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Re: Agree or disagree: "Bird couldn't make Boston a Celtics town."
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2008, 08:25:52 PM »

Offline 17iscoming

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I read that also and agreed with you.  Celtics were kings and all else was secondary.  Sox hadn't been to the playoffs in years.  Celts and Bruins ruled the 80s.

Re: Agree or disagree: "Bird couldn't make Boston a Celtics town."
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2008, 08:43:09 PM »

Offline Eja117

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The article didn't follow its own rules, cause it seemed to imply that Bird couldn't permanently make Boston a Celtics town, but then every other city was like "well right now this team rules".  I specifically remember standing in the longest line in the history of time at a strip mall in Kingston MA when I was like 8 to get Danny Ainge's autograph at a Footlocker. Can you imagine what the line would have been to get Larry's? I don't think there was a Red Sox at the time like that. Or since.

Re: Agree or disagree: "Bird couldn't make Boston a Celtics town."
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2008, 09:09:34 PM »

Offline JBcat

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Well I think the waiting list for season tickets for Celtics game during the mid 80s was around 6000.
  
Courtesy of the Boston Red Sox website check out this stat.
LONGEST RECORDED REGULAR SEASON SELLOUT STREAKS IN MLB/NBA/NHL/NFL HISTORY

No.   Team   Years
744   Portland (NBA)   1977-95
567   Boston (NBA)          1980-95
515   Chicago (NBA)   1987-00
455   Cleveland (MLB)   1995-01
455   Boston (MLB)           2003-08
407   Colorado (NHL)   1995-06

So I would have to say even though overall this is a baseball town the Celtics ruled this city for a decade.  

Re: Agree or disagree: "Bird couldn't make Boston a Celtics town."
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2008, 09:13:39 PM »

Offline Edgar

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For me Bird make Boston a Cs town 25 years ago.
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Nice to be back!

Re: Agree or disagree: "Bird couldn't make Boston a Celtics town."
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2008, 09:21:27 PM »

Offline johnnyrondo

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The article was lousy and Reilly comes off as stupid again. According to his "racism logic" wouldn't a predominantly white Bird team in a league of mostly black players be loved by a supposed racist city? His statement made no sense.

For those celticsbloggers who are older this whole Boston is a racist city perplexes me some. Most of it comes from the 70's when black kids were bussed into Southie and white Southie kids were bussed to predominantly black schools correct?  Was there any other city in America where they attempted to bus working class family white kids into predominantly black schools? Seems to me that if they attempted this in Philly or NYC, or D C or Detroit or Chicago, etc that there wouold have been the same bus rioting unfortunately? Is this a valid thought? So Boston gets a bad rap for attempting to be the most "liberal acting" in terms of school segregation more or less. And if I'm correct the law was passed by white surbanites, but when it was proposed that suburban white kids get bussed into inner city schools, all the MA liberal lawmakers then drew the line. Is this basically the story? Please someone who lived through the bus riots clear this up.

While there is no excuse for the riots, i do believe it would have happened in any city if the same experiment was done. As someone who has taught in a 99.9% low income school (in Chicago) I don't blame parents for not wanting their child to be bussed into a school let's say in Roxbury. I don't know the whole Boston is a racist city thing sort of has always been perplexing to me, because Boston is such a liberal city. Imo, every city has its share of racists (of all colors actually) and when a non local reporter (in this case Reilly) just continues to perpeuate stereotypes 30 yrs later its redundant imo. I wonder if he would want his kids going to a 99.9% low income school.

Now maybe I'm off and Boston doesn't get its racist label from the bus riots. i know russell talked about how he experienced racism during his yrs playing here, but again unfortunately wasn't there racism in every city in America? And as poor as the sox were in terms of racial progress, the Celtics were the leaders in that regard. So while you might have had some idiots who through rocks at buses, used slurs at Russell, and were bigoted running their team (Yawkey), I don't think that makes a city "racist." If one player out of 12 on a team sucks (let's say Scalabrine), does that mean the whole team sucks? I think we won the championship last year if I'm not mistaken. By the same thinking, I don't think that Boston should be labeled based on the actions of a small percentage of its people.

Re: Agree or disagree: "Bird couldn't make Boston a Celtics town."
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2008, 11:25:05 PM »

Online Donoghus

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I disagree with the article's claim. Boston was most certainly a Celtics town for much of the '80s.  They were the biggest draw in town, night in and night out.  Granted the Sox have been around the longest but they were mediocre for much of the 80's ('86 Series & '88 ALCS aside)and they weren't drawing the crowds like they are today.  Watch a Sox telecast from the 80's and you'll often find that the right field grandstand was at least half empty and the bleachers were no way near full.  In fact, Patriots Day used to be a "dump 'em" game for many season ticket holders, now its one of the the most demanded games of the year. The Patriots hadn't even registered on the region's radar with the except of '85 and '86 or so.  The Bruins were drawing crowds and putting out some decent teams but they weren't at the same level as the Celtics.  Not in my opinion.  Despite the '88 appearance in the Stanley Cup Finals, they were still second banana to the Celtics during the winter months.  This was Bird's town.

Once Bird retired, there was a huge shift in Boston sports landscape.  Parcells and Bledsoe came to town and the Patriots became relevant.  It really wasn't until after the '94 Strike, that this whole Red Sox Nation started to really gain momentum and just grab the region.

Full disclosure:  I'm only 28.


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Re: Agree or disagree: "Bird couldn't make Boston a Celtics town."
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2008, 03:28:38 AM »

Offline ACF

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This is where the "oldtimers" must step
up to the plate and tell us how it was
back then. Would be fun to hear about.

Re: Agree or disagree: "Bird couldn't make Boston a Celtics town."
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2008, 10:31:33 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Sometimes I wonder if hockey players say "I don't want to play there. It's too reverse racist." Whatever that means.

If I understand correctly Hank Aaron got death threats but Braves players in the deep south don't seem to complain about the city being racist.

One would think if Brooklyn or LA get a pass for signing Jackie Robinson then Boston would get a pass for the first black player and coach. We also had a black GM.

Re: Agree or disagree: "Bird couldn't make Boston a Celtics town."
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2008, 11:06:35 PM »

Offline PerkinsERA43

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I saw this on ESPN.com, and thought to myself "that's ridiculous! Did this guy never watch a game at Boston Garden during the 80's?" And I still think that. People went nuts for the Celts, and I mean NUTS.... Not that I was there, not being old enough, but ESPN classic paints a pretty good picture soooo... Yeah.... Lots of dot dot dot's in this post....

ERA/

Re: Agree or disagree: "Bird couldn't make Boston a Celtics town."
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2008, 04:01:05 AM »

Offline blazingarrow

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The perception I get is that Boston is all about the Red Sox, and whatever other team happens to be winning at the time.

It seems like for it to be a Celtics town, the love affair has to be permanent. Not just when the team is in the playoffs.

I live in Providence, but from working and visiting Boston, and listening to WEEI, that's what I've gotted. There are die hard Celtics fans, but the Sox are permanent.




Re: Agree or disagree: "Bird couldn't make Boston a Celtics town."
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2008, 08:59:05 AM »

Offline cavman

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Sometimes I don't know what goes through Rick's mind.  I read that blurb on the ESPN website yesterday and thought he was nuts.
Boston was definitely the Celtics' town in the 80's.  You could get Sox tickets pretty easily, but NOT Celtics' tickets.

The problem was not racism, but nearly a decade of abysmal teams after Bird & McHale retired, & Lewis' tragic death.  Losing, continual losing, allowed the shift to take place when the Red Sox finally became consistently good.

We New Englanders expected the Sox to fold, AND the Celtics to prevail.
"The most important thing is the ability to communicate.  It's not how much you know.  It's how you communicate what you know."  Red

Re: Agree or disagree: "Bird couldn't make Boston a Celtics town."
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2008, 09:04:38 AM »

Offline Yakmanev

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If it weren't for the Celtics (or Cheers/Wings) I wouldn't even know that Boston was an American city.

Re: Agree or disagree: "Bird couldn't make Boston a Celtics town."
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2008, 09:18:46 AM »

Offline cargomaniac

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Russell showed me the history, John Havlicek made me a fan but
Bird made me a beliver. Boston not a Celtic town? Have you ever
sat in the Garden? You might feel different.

As a Celtic Fan living in New Jersey..I have enjoyed the company
of Nasty Knick Fans (I had my life threatened), Indifferent Net
Fans (you mean this isnt an Indoor Giants game?) and Philadelphia
Lunatics (love those games, they give as good as they get and then
want to buy you a beer for staying true to your team) but Boston
is my Mecca (no slight to our Islamic friends).

Not a Celtic Town? Are you kidding? Go Celts...Thanks for 17 and
taking Kobe out...but, it is now time to get working for 18. Ok,
I am greedy....

Re: Agree or disagree: "Bird couldn't make Boston a Celtics town."
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2008, 09:26:27 AM »

Offline Redz

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No doubt the Celts ruled the 80's.  You could walk up and buy decent seats for most any Red Sox game still.  Not so with the Celtics.  Boston lived and died with Bird's every move.  When he was injured it was a gutwrencher that caused the type of stress we have not seen until Brady's recent injury.

Boston fans allegiances for the 80's I'd say:

1) Celts
2) Bruins
3) Red Sox
4) Pats
Yup