Cassell Says He Will Sign Contract With Celtics Next Week

[bucknersrevenge]

Here's one of my big issues. People are betting on Sam being that player he was 2 years ago because of his 15 year history.

Here's one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that Sam played very well for the Clippers last year. If I'm not mistaken, Sam played more games with the Clips than with the C's and put up very good numbers (12 PPG on 46% shooting, something like that).

Here's another one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that he didn't play for last place team with little talent and no chance to contend at the end of the year. He played for Boston. He walked into Boston and acted like he was the same #1 option on a bad team he was before. Fact is he played selfish, non-Celtic basketball. He was the anti-ubuntu. His defense was atrocious, his shooting actually got worse the longer he was here(which was his only real contribution as Detroit exposed him bringing the ball up too). He shot 24% against Cleveland and 23% against Detroit. Maybe Sam should go back to the Clippers or wherever else he can go to fire up jumper after jumper, freeze out our best player on offense in the playoffs or wherever else that works. In Boston that doesn't fly here.

Before knocking Cassell for his poor shooting during the playoffs you might want to know that House, the player you are so much higher on than Sam, actually shot worse in the playoffs than Sam did. Sam shot 33% overall and House shot 30%. And that's after Eddie shot 35% for the final 2 months of the regular season.

I don't want Sam back on this team, but mostly because I think his time and skills have left him behind. If Sam could roll back time and play like the player he played like just 2 or 3 years ago, he would be a better backup PG option than House.

But I don't think he can do that so he shouldn't be signed. Just my opinion. That 15th spot would be much better spent on a backup 5 or 3.

All I'm trying to say is that before dismissing Sam as done because he shot poorly in the playoffs, know that the other guy didn't shoot so well either. Sam is old and was unfamiliar with the offense. What was House's excuse for such poor shooting from March 1st on?

Don't get me wrong, I want Eddie here before I would ever want Sam here, but look at it from Danny's POV. Neither veteran backup PG lit the court on fire with their play anytime during the spring or summer of last year. Danny may think Sam still has something based on his play in LA where he was familiar with his team mates and system. Could Sam still play at that level if given more PT with the players here and as he gets to know the Celtics system better? Because all things considered, once Sam got here, neither Sam nor Eddie played all that well. Sam had an excuse, he was unfamiliar with the team and the players here. Eddie didn't have an excuse. At least, maybe, just maybe, that's the way Danny sees it.

I'm not sure what numbers you're looking at but per ESPN these were his numbers:

for April: 6 games FG 36% 3ptFG 36%

for March: 16 games FG 40% 3ptFG 36%

None of that equates to 35% anyway you slice it. And as for the slide in his numbers late in the year that is EASILY explained. We didn't have anything to play for the last 15-20 games of the year. GPA was resting earlier and often in games and as such Eddie wasn't getting the same caliber of open looks as he was getting earlier in the season(not to mention Sam was playing more late in the season too). Also consider this. The Celtics went 17-3 in their last 20 games the vast majority of those wins they were putting teams away early in the 3rd quarter and then the 4th was little more than extended garbage time during which Eddie would play with lineups that included All-Stars like Powe, BBD, Tony and Sam late in games. Catch-and-shoot guys aren't gonna get a ton of good looks with that lineup.

But aside from that the way Eddie handled his demotion was all class despite the fact that he did nothing to earn the demotion. And when he was asked by the media fishing for a comment he gave them this jewel:

"I'd rather be playing of course. I always wanna be out there helping my team but until then I'm gonna STAY ready so that when Doc calls on me I won't have to GET ready..."

THAT my friend is "ubuntu" through and through.

Meanwhile, before Sam got his chance to jack up a shot everytime he came across halfcourt with the ball there was a stretch where he wasn't playing. He on the other hand offered up this nugget:

"I don't know why I'm here if they don't intend to play me..."

Yeah...exactly who I want leading our bench.  

One player fits seamlessly into the offense and exhibits everything that being a Celtic is about. The other guy grandstands at every opportunity(though I do find the "big balls" dance hilarious) freezes out teammates(i never once saw Sam hit the roll guy off a pick in a Boston uniform last year), plays bad defense and then WHINES when he's not on the floor. Talent or not this is no contest.

As far as Danny's POV I'm thinking this may be a necessary evil. Though I don't like Sam the player NOW, I refuse to discount his knowledge of the game over 15 years. Maybe in order to get Sam to stay here as a coach they had to make a deal with the devil so to speak for one more year as a player. The hope here is he plays 1 out of ever 3 or 4 games for a couple of minutes and doesn't screw everything up when he gets on the floor and next year he can spend his days instructing Rondo more on the nuances of the game at the point position.

[soap07]

Here's another one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that he didn't play for last place team with little talent and no chance to contend at the end of the year. He played for Boston. He walked into Boston and acted like he was the same #1 option on a bad team he was before. Fact is he played selfish, non-Celtic basketball. He was the anti-ubuntu. His defense was atrocious, his shooting actually got worse the longer he was here(which was his only real contribution as Detroit exposed him bringing the ball up too). He shot 24% against Cleveland and 23% against Detroit. Maybe Sam should go back to the Clippers or wherever else he can go to fire up jumper after jumper, freeze out our best player on offense in the playoffs or wherever else that works. In Boston that doesn't fly here.


Wow. In what part of your post did you rebut that Cassell played well for the Clippers last year? Yes, we all agree. Sam didn't play well with Boston last year. What does that have to do with how he played on LA?

This is the closest you came to rebutting what I said...


"
Here's another one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that he didn't play for last place team with little talent and no chance to contend at the end of the year. "

Is this a point? I don't understand what you're trying to say. Who's ignoring that Sam didn't play for the Clippers at the end of last year? Are you implying that Sam is a stat-padder who only put up good numbers because he was on a bad team? In that case, I'll point you to his championships as evidence to his game being successful on great teams.

Here's the point you made:

Sam hasn't played well in two years.

I counter with:

Sam played well last season in more games with the Clippers.

You respond with:

But Sam was bad in Boston!

And now I'm confused as to what you're responding to.

[nickagneta]

Here's one of my big issues. People are betting on Sam being that player he was 2 years ago because of his 15 year history.

Here's one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that Sam played very well for the Clippers last year. If I'm not mistaken, Sam played more games with the Clips than with the C's and put up very good numbers (12 PPG on 46% shooting, something like that).

Here's another one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that he didn't play for last place team with little talent and no chance to contend at the end of the year. He played for Boston. He walked into Boston and acted like he was the same #1 option on a bad team he was before. Fact is he played selfish, non-Celtic basketball. He was the anti-ubuntu. His defense was atrocious, his shooting actually got worse the longer he was here(which was his only real contribution as Detroit exposed him bringing the ball up too). He shot 24% against Cleveland and 23% against Detroit. Maybe Sam should go back to the Clippers or wherever else he can go to fire up jumper after jumper, freeze out our best player on offense in the playoffs or wherever else that works. In Boston that doesn't fly here.

Before knocking Cassell for his poor shooting during the playoffs you might want to know that House, the player you are so much higher on than Sam, actually shot worse in the playoffs than Sam did. Sam shot 33% overall and House shot 30%. And that's after Eddie shot 35% for the final 2 months of the regular season.

I don't want Sam back on this team, but mostly because I think his time and skills have left him behind. If Sam could roll back time and play like the player he played like just 2 or 3 years ago, he would be a better backup PG option than House.

But I don't think he can do that so he shouldn't be signed. Just my opinion. That 15th spot would be much better spent on a backup 5 or 3.

All I'm trying to say is that before dismissing Sam as done because he shot poorly in the playoffs, know that the other guy didn't shoot so well either. Sam is old and was unfamiliar with the offense. What was House's excuse for such poor shooting from March 1st on?

Don't get me wrong, I want Eddie here before I would ever want Sam here, but look at it from Danny's POV. Neither veteran backup PG lit the court on fire with their play anytime during the spring or summer of last year. Danny may think Sam still has something based on his play in LA where he was familiar with his team mates and system. Could Sam still play at that level if given more PT with the players here and as he gets to know the Celtics system better? Because all things considered, once Sam got here, neither Sam nor Eddie played all that well. Sam had an excuse, he was unfamiliar with the team and the players here. Eddie didn't have an excuse. At least, maybe, just maybe, that's the way Danny sees it.

I'm not sure what numbers you're looking at but per ESPN these were his numbers:

for April: 6 games FG 36% 3ptFG 36%

for March: 16 games FG 40% 3ptFG 36%

None of that equates to 35% anyway you slice it. And as for the slide in his numbers late in the year that is EASILY explained. We didn't have anything to play for the last 15-20 games of the year. GPA was resting earlier and often in games and as such Eddie wasn't getting the same caliber of open looks as he was getting earlier in the season(not to mention Sam was playing more late in the season too). Also consider this. The Celtics went 17-3 in their last 20 games the vast majority of those wins they were putting teams away early in the 3rd quarter and then the 4th was little more than extended garbage time during which Eddie would play with lineups that included All-Stars like Powe, BBD, Tony and Sam late in games. Catch-and-shoot guys aren't gonna get a ton of good looks with that lineup.

But aside from that the way Eddie handled his demotion was all class despite the fact that he did nothing to earn the demotion. And when he was asked by the media fishing for a comment he gave them this jewel:

"I'd rather be playing of course. I always wanna be out there helping my team but until then I'm gonna STAY ready so that when Doc calls on me I won't have to GET ready..."

THAT my friend is "ubuntu" through and through.

Meanwhile, before Sam got his chance to jack up a shot everytime he came across halfcourt with the ball there was a stretch where he wasn't playing. He on the other hand offered up this nugget:

"I don't know why I'm here if they don't intend to play me..."

Yeah...exactly who I want leading our bench.  

One player fits seamlessly into the offense and exhibits everything that being a Celtic is about. The other guy grandstands at every opportunity(though I do find the "big balls" dance hilarious) freezes out teammates(i never once saw Sam hit the roll guy off a pick in a Boston uniform last year), plays bad defense and then WHINES when he's not on the floor. Talent or not this is no contest.

As far as Danny's POV I'm thinking this may be a necessary evil. Though I don't like Sam the player NOW, I refuse to discount his knowledge of the game over 15 years. Maybe in order to get Sam to stay here as a coach they had to make a deal with the devil so to speak for one more year as a player. The hope here is he plays 1 out of ever 3 or 4 games for a couple of minutes and doesn't screw everything up when he gets on the floor and next year he can spend his days instructing Rondo more on the nuances of the game at the point position.

Sorry about the numbers. I was trying to go off memory because I have had this conversation before. He was 58 for 150 or 38% during March and April. yeah, that 3% huge difference. I definitely want my professional, offthe bench shooting specialist shooting 38%.

And by the way, it's okay to just admit Eddie wasn't playing that well at the end of the year without making tons of excuses. Heck, being the stand up guy that Eddie is, he would probably be the first to admit it. He wasn't shooting well. No explanations necessary.

And honestly, as bad as Sam played, and for much of the time after Game 2 Cleveland it was as bad as it gets, he wasn't nearly the disruptive force you are making him out to be. He shot a ton. Yup. But that's his game and that's what the second team needed last year. Sam happened to go into one of the worse shooting slumps he's ever been in. If he didn't we'd be singing another song right now. But he did and probably because he doesn't have it anymore. But that is what Doc told him to do.

[bucknersrevenge]

Here's one of my big issues. People are betting on Sam being that player he was 2 years ago because of his 15 year history.

Here's one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that Sam played very well for the Clippers last year. If I'm not mistaken, Sam played more games with the Clips than with the C's and put up very good numbers (12 PPG on 46% shooting, something like that).

Here's another one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that he didn't play for last place team with little talent and no chance to contend at the end of the year. He played for Boston. He walked into Boston and acted like he was the same #1 option on a bad team he was before. Fact is he played selfish, non-Celtic basketball. He was the anti-ubuntu. His defense was atrocious, his shooting actually got worse the longer he was here(which was his only real contribution as Detroit exposed him bringing the ball up too). He shot 24% against Cleveland and 23% against Detroit. Maybe Sam should go back to the Clippers or wherever else he can go to fire up jumper after jumper, freeze out our best player on offense in the playoffs or wherever else that works. In Boston that doesn't fly here.

Before knocking Cassell for his poor shooting during the playoffs you might want to know that House, the player you are so much higher on than Sam, actually shot worse in the playoffs than Sam did. Sam shot 33% overall and House shot 30%. And that's after Eddie shot 35% for the final 2 months of the regular season.

I don't want Sam back on this team, but mostly because I think his time and skills have left him behind. If Sam could roll back time and play like the player he played like just 2 or 3 years ago, he would be a better backup PG option than House.

But I don't think he can do that so he shouldn't be signed. Just my opinion. That 15th spot would be much better spent on a backup 5 or 3.

All I'm trying to say is that before dismissing Sam as done because he shot poorly in the playoffs, know that the other guy didn't shoot so well either. Sam is old and was unfamiliar with the offense. What was House's excuse for such poor shooting from March 1st on?

Don't get me wrong, I want Eddie here before I would ever want Sam here, but look at it from Danny's POV. Neither veteran backup PG lit the court on fire with their play anytime during the spring or summer of last year. Danny may think Sam still has something based on his play in LA where he was familiar with his team mates and system. Could Sam still play at that level if given more PT with the players here and as he gets to know the Celtics system better? Because all things considered, once Sam got here, neither Sam nor Eddie played all that well. Sam had an excuse, he was unfamiliar with the team and the players here. Eddie didn't have an excuse. At least, maybe, just maybe, that's the way Danny sees it.

I'm not sure what numbers you're looking at but per ESPN these were his numbers:

for April: 6 games FG 36% 3ptFG 36%

for March: 16 games FG 40% 3ptFG 36%

None of that equates to 35% anyway you slice it. And as for the slide in his numbers late in the year that is EASILY explained. We didn't have anything to play for the last 15-20 games of the year. GPA was resting earlier and often in games and as such Eddie wasn't getting the same caliber of open looks as he was getting earlier in the season(not to mention Sam was playing more late in the season too). Also consider this. The Celtics went 17-3 in their last 20 games the vast majority of those wins they were putting teams away early in the 3rd quarter and then the 4th was little more than extended garbage time during which Eddie would play with lineups that included All-Stars like Powe, BBD, Tony and Sam late in games. Catch-and-shoot guys aren't gonna get a ton of good looks with that lineup.

But aside from that the way Eddie handled his demotion was all class despite the fact that he did nothing to earn the demotion. And when he was asked by the media fishing for a comment he gave them this jewel:

"I'd rather be playing of course. I always wanna be out there helping my team but until then I'm gonna STAY ready so that when Doc calls on me I won't have to GET ready..."

THAT my friend is "ubuntu" through and through.

Meanwhile, before Sam got his chance to jack up a shot everytime he came across halfcourt with the ball there was a stretch where he wasn't playing. He on the other hand offered up this nugget:

"I don't know why I'm here if they don't intend to play me..."

Yeah...exactly who I want leading our bench.  

One player fits seamlessly into the offense and exhibits everything that being a Celtic is about. The other guy grandstands at every opportunity(though I do find the "big balls" dance hilarious) freezes out teammates(i never once saw Sam hit the roll guy off a pick in a Boston uniform last year), plays bad defense and then WHINES when he's not on the floor. Talent or not this is no contest.

As far as Danny's POV I'm thinking this may be a necessary evil. Though I don't like Sam the player NOW, I refuse to discount his knowledge of the game over 15 years. Maybe in order to get Sam to stay here as a coach they had to make a deal with the devil so to speak for one more year as a player. The hope here is he plays 1 out of ever 3 or 4 games for a couple of minutes and doesn't screw everything up when he gets on the floor and next year he can spend his days instructing Rondo more on the nuances of the game at the point position.

Sorry about the numbers. I was trying to go off memory because I have had this conversation before. He was 58 for 150 or 38% during March and April. yeah, that 3% huge difference. I definitely want my professional, offthe bench shooting specialist shooting 38%.

And by the way, it's okay to just admit Eddie wasn't playing that well at the end of the year without making tons of excuses. Heck, being the stand up guy that Eddie is, he would probably be the first to admit it. He wasn't shooting well. No explanations necessary.

And honestly, as bad as Sam played, and for much of the time after Game 2 Cleveland it was as bad as it gets, he wasn't nearly the disruptive force you are making him out to be. He shot a ton. Yup. But that's his game and that's what the second team needed last year. Sam happened to go into one of the worse shooting slumps he's ever been in. If he didn't we'd be singing another song right now. But he did and probably because he doesn't have it anymore. But that is what Doc told him to do.

Again Eddie's a 3pt shooter. What was he shooting from 3?? 36% Solid, under the circumstances. And I agree Eddie wouldn't make excuses because that's the kind of guy Eddie is. That doesn't change the fact that he was playing a ton of garbage time late in the year because a)they didn't have anything to play for and b)they were crushing teams early and often the last 20 games leading to extended garbage time where Eddie played with some of the worst possible lineups for spot up shooters to get open looks. You don't have to like it. That's just how it is.

As for Sam, he was terrible in the regular season before the playoffs begin with the exception of maybe 4 or 5 games. The Spurs game he was HUGE and that was the only regular season game he played in that mattered for anything. He had good games against the Knicks and a great finish against the Hawks, a game I watched from the stands in Atlanta. But none of those games mattered. When the playoffs came he was abysmal. What the second team needed was a guy that was gonna try and get his teammates involved so they could help not freeze them out and watch him go 1 on 5. And don't get it twisted about this being solely second team. He did this many times with Paul on the floor which I remember confounding me at the time. How do you freeze Paul Pierce out of the offense?? Does that even make sense? He shot because that was all he could or wanted to do. And if he wasn't in a shooting slump....and IF I woulda coulda shoulda whatever...  He was terrible. As a coach I'd love him on the staff without a doubt but as a player he's well done like burnt steak.

[nickagneta]

Couple things:

- 36% 3PTFG% isn't solid. It would put him somewhere around 75th in the league if he did it for a year. That's not solid.

- Eddie got as much PT when the game was on the line during those 2 months as he did with players who weren't the best on the team. As a matter of fact he had been playing with those same players early in the year when the Celtics were blowing out teams and Eddie was playing garbage time and hitting shots, so I don't see where that is relevant. He has a job to do. It doesn't matter who he does it with, he has to do it. If you are going to not give Sam excuses, don't make any for Eddie. That is only fair.

- The second team had players that were trying to get all the players involved in the offense all year long. That's what Eddie was trying to do and that's what Rondo tried to do when he played with the second teamers. The problem was they wouldn't shoot and the only guys that would would take 3 pointers. Your memory is lacking. That second team had almost zero offensive punch at the end of the year and needed someoneto step up and shoot. Doc told him to play his game because that is what the team needed.

- We agree, Sam shouldn't be on this team. I just refuse to look at everything negatively when looking at what Sam did last year and only positively when looking at what Eddie did last year. Eddie played well and was the better player as a whole. But he did shoot poorly at the end of the season. Sam was awful but he did have some good games and was instrumental in a couple or three playoff wins. He was bad, real bad. But he did what he was told, at times played some okay defense, and to everyone's dismay, in fact, did not shoot the ball every single time he brought the ball up the floor. That is a fallacy. He just did it more than you would have liked.

[soap07]

- 36% 3PTFG% isn't solid. It would put him somewhere around 75th in the league if he did it for a year. That's not solid.

Nick, I'm with you on this argument concerning Eddie, however - 36% is a pretty decent percentage no matter where that puts him in the league. It's not elite, but anything above 35% is considered an above average shooter. League wise - it may be possible that last year was just a good year for shooters.

[bucknersrevenge]

Gotta side with Cordobes on this one. This team is too overloaded with youth to successfully compete for a title. I disgree entirely with the idea that "now is the time" for another youth movement. It is anything but that. It's the time to get the starters the help they need to win another title.

We have everybody back from last season except James Posey. Posey is the difference between a youth movement and a roster that can compete for a championship? That's ridiculous.

Yes, I know we don't have PJ but the C's were doing just fine even before PJ was signed.

Echoing what soap07 says, not only did we only lose Posey, but all our rotation guys are a yr older. Pierce, KG, Ray, Cassell, Scal, and House will all be a yr older. Younger rotation players, Perkins, Rondo, Tony Allen, Powe, and BBD will all be a yr older. So I'd hesitate to say our team is too young to win a championship. It shouldn't be a stetch to expect more from that second group, now that they have another yr and a full playoff yr under their belt. IMO, we are a more experienced team this yr. Players 10-15 on the depth chart don't really get much if any playoff burn, so does it really matter who's waving the towel in their suit?

Assuming improvement based on a year of experience is a glaring fallacy. Tony Allen is proof of that. Four years in the league without substantitive improvement. The only thing he leads the league in is fan alibis for his mental ineptitude on the bench.

This team is too young on the bench to win a title. There is no quality whatsoever at the 5 behind Perkins and there isn't enough outside shooting. Hopefully, these signs mean Danny intends to address that.

Tony had shown marked improvement in his game when he went down. As a starter in 18 games before he went down he had averaged over 16 pts, 5.r rebs and over 2 steals a game while shooting an efficient 51% from the floor while getting to the line. He had shown to be a decent 3rd option behind Paul and Al. Your assertion of no substantive improve holds no water. He was improving before he was injured. You won't hear me argue he still doesn't make his share of dumb plays(fouling jumpshooters) but you're very wrong about the improvement.

I will say this though. If it is considered fallacious to assume improvement based on experience then there should be no issues about our bench's lack thereof. The talent is there. How many outside shooters do you think we need to win?? Paul and Ray are perimeter scorers. To a degree ou could so is KG. House adds perimeter shooting off the bench. This sounds more like someone trying to replace Posey with Posey again.

[bucknersrevenge]

Here's another one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that he didn't play for last place team with little talent and no chance to contend at the end of the year. He played for Boston. He walked into Boston and acted like he was the same #1 option on a bad team he was before. Fact is he played selfish, non-Celtic basketball. He was the anti-ubuntu. His defense was atrocious, his shooting actually got worse the longer he was here(which was his only real contribution as Detroit exposed him bringing the ball up too). He shot 24% against Cleveland and 23% against Detroit. Maybe Sam should go back to the Clippers or wherever else he can go to fire up jumper after jumper, freeze out our best player on offense in the playoffs or wherever else that works. In Boston that doesn't fly here.


Wow. In what part of your post did you rebut that Cassell played well for the Clippers last year? Yes, we all agree. Sam didn't play well with Boston last year. What does that have to do with how he played on LA?

This is the closest you came to rebutting what I said...


"
Here's another one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that he didn't play for last place team with little talent and no chance to contend at the end of the year. "

Is this a point? I don't understand what you're trying to say. Who's ignoring that Sam didn't play for the Clippers at the end of last year? Are you implying that Sam is a stat-padder who only put up good numbers because he was on a bad team? In that case, I'll point you to his championships as evidence to his game being successful on great teams.

Here's the point you made:

Sam hasn't played well in two years.

I counter with:

Sam played well last season in more games with the Clippers.

You respond with:

But Sam was bad in Boston!

And now I'm confused as to what you're responding to.

Well then let me clarify because that is absolutely NOT the point I made. What I said was that people are thinking that Sam is the same player he was a couple of years ago. A couple of years ago when he was putting up 17/6/4 numbers with 44% shooting including 37% from the arc. He's not that guy now and the only reason he had a starting job earlier this year to even put up the numbers he did put up was because their starters had a violent knee injury that cost him the year. Not to mention their top scorer Brand was also lost for the year.

And YES, he put up some mediocre numbers on a bad team. And if you're gonna point to championships as his measure of success you DO realize his last title before this year was as a member of the Houston Rockets during his 3rd year in the league right?? A team blessed with 2 of the top 50 NBA players of all-time. You gotta come with more than that. But I'll make your case. He has definitely improved countless teams where he gone and taken them to the playoffs. Teams have often overachieved when he has been a member of them whether we're talking about Phoenix, Jersey, Milwaukee, and when he first got to the Clippers. Problem is, as I said, he's not that guy anymore. He was atrocious for this team last year. For those who believe we needed another veteran, I say fine. I'll concede that point maybe but the Sam Cassell I saw last year leaves entirely too much to be desired and even nick a poster I've been debating with all night concedes that point.

[bucknersrevenge]

Couple things:

- 36% 3PTFG% isn't solid. It would put him somewhere around 75th in the league if he did it for a year. That's not solid.

- Eddie got as much PT when the game was on the line during those 2 months as he did with players who weren't the best on the team. As a matter of fact he had been playing with those same players early in the year when the Celtics were blowing out teams and Eddie was playing garbage time and hitting shots, so I don't see where that is relevant. He has a job to do. It doesn't matter who he does it with, he has to do it. If you are going to not give Sam excuses, don't make any for Eddie. That is only fair.

- The second team had players that were trying to get all the players involved in the offense all year long. That's what Eddie was trying to do and that's what Rondo tried to do when he played with the second teamers. The problem was they wouldn't shoot and the only guys that would would take 3 pointers. Your memory is lacking. That second team had almost zero offensive punch at the end of the year and needed someone to step up and shoot. Doc told him to play his game because that is what the team needed.

- We agree, Sam shouldn't be on this team. I just refuse to look at everything negatively when looking at what Sam did last year and only positively when looking at what Eddie did last year. Eddie played well and was the better player as a whole. But he did shoot poorly at the end of the season. Sam was awful but he did have some good games and was instrumental in a couple or three playoff wins. He was bad, real bad. But he did what he was told, at times played some okay defense, and to everyone's dismay, in fact, did not shoot the ball every single time he brought the ball up the floor. That is a fallacy. He just did it more than you would have liked.

33-34% is about league average so 36% is definitely solid. And I know because when I got into it with Roy about his fantasy team he was quick to point out that a 34% 3pt shooter has the same eFG% of a guy that shoots 50% from the floor. I hated being told that so I know it's true. And still, Eddie didn't shoot that for the year. He shot it for the last 2 months which actually brought his 3pt shooting down below 40% to 39% for the year. I guess I can accept a shooter who has helped set the pace all year taking his foot off the accelerator a little.

I absolutely agree with the point that other guys were unwilling to shoot which makes it difficult for guys like Eddie to get the looks he is accustomed to with the starters.

One a side note, you wanna talk about debatable points, listen to people say we don't have enough perimeter shooters on this team. Last year we couldn't MAKE anybody drive the lane with a gun to their head and now we apparently don't have enough shooters.

Hey If you want me to say Eddie's numbers were down from what he had done his previous years I will. He had a month and a half at the end of the year that kind of ruined his numbers. I will concede that fact. But when it mattered earlier in the year he was on. And to me that carries more weight in light of the fact That while I acknowledge now and in before that Sam had a few good games in Boston, really only one of them mattered for anything. In that game against San Antonio I thought he was terrific. But those performances were too few and far between to look over the whole tenure. And that's really all I'm saying. I concede your point that Eddie wasn't perfect or great 100% of the time. I just don't think the point carries too much weight in comparison to everything else we know about Eddie.

[soap07]

Here's another one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that he didn't play for last place team with little talent and no chance to contend at the end of the year. He played for Boston. He walked into Boston and acted like he was the same #1 option on a bad team he was before. Fact is he played selfish, non-Celtic basketball. He was the anti-ubuntu. His defense was atrocious, his shooting actually got worse the longer he was here(which was his only real contribution as Detroit exposed him bringing the ball up too). He shot 24% against Cleveland and 23% against Detroit. Maybe Sam should go back to the Clippers or wherever else he can go to fire up jumper after jumper, freeze out our best player on offense in the playoffs or wherever else that works. In Boston that doesn't fly here.


Wow. In what part of your post did you rebut that Cassell played well for the Clippers last year? Yes, we all agree. Sam didn't play well with Boston last year. What does that have to do with how he played on LA?

This is the closest you came to rebutting what I said...


"
Here's another one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that he didn't play for last place team with little talent and no chance to contend at the end of the year. "

Is this a point? I don't understand what you're trying to say. Who's ignoring that Sam didn't play for the Clippers at the end of last year? Are you implying that Sam is a stat-padder who only put up good numbers because he was on a bad team? In that case, I'll point you to his championships as evidence to his game being successful on great teams.

Here's the point you made:

Sam hasn't played well in two years.

I counter with:

Sam played well last season in more games with the Clippers.

You respond with:

But Sam was bad in Boston!

And now I'm confused as to what you're responding to.

Well then let me clarify because that is absolutely NOT the point I made. What I said was that people are thinking that Sam is the same player he was a couple of years ago. A couple of years ago when he was putting up 17/6/4 numbers with 44% shooting including 37% from the arc. He's not that guy now and the only reason he had a starting job earlier this year to even put up the numbers he did put up was because their starters had a violent knee injury that cost him the year. Not to mention their top scorer Brand was also lost for the year.

And YES, he put up some mediocre numbers on a bad team. And if you're gonna point to championships as his measure of success you DO realize his last title before this year was as a member of the Houston Rockets during his 3rd year in the league right?? A team blessed with 2 of the top 50 NBA players of all-time. You gotta come with more than that. But I'll make your case. He has definitely improved countless teams where he gone and taken them to the playoffs. Teams have often overachieved when he has been a member of them whether we're talking about Phoenix, Jersey, Milwaukee, and when he first got to the Clippers. Problem is, as I said, he's not that guy anymore. He was atrocious for this team last year. For those who believe we needed another veteran, I say fine. I'll concede that point maybe but the Sam Cassell I saw last year leaves entirely too much to be desired and even nick a poster I've been debating with all night concedes that point.

Well, again you keep contradicting yourself.

"What I said was that people are thinking that Sam is the same player he was a couple of years ago. A couple of years ago when he was putting up 17/6/4 numbers with 44% shooting including 37% from the arc. "

What people are those? What Celtic fans are expecting him, as a guy in his late 30s, realistically to still have that ability? No one is arguing that point, so what are you responding to?

What people are arguing, and rightfully so, is that Cassell can return to the form that he was at...last season in over half a season with the Clippers.

He's not that guy now and the only reason he had a starting job earlier this year to even put up the numbers he did put up was because their starters had a violent knee injury that cost him the year.

Okay? So he stepped up, like he has his entire career except with a short stint with the C's, when a player got injured. That's a negative against him? How does that discount the numbers he put up?


And YES, he put up some mediocre numbers on a bad team.

Mediocre? How is 12 ppg in 24 minutes for a guy who we signed to be a 3rd string vet minimum back up mediocre? Please just admit that Sam played well for the Clippers and we could move on to a different argument. And why are you bringing up that Sam was on a bad team? By default, you're implying that Sam does not have the ability to put up numbers on a good team, which by his career history, is a false implication.

And if you're gonna point to championships as his measure of success you DO realize his last title before this year was as a member of the Houston Rockets during his 3rd year in the league right??

I see. Winning multiple titles only counts when you are later in your career.

Teams have often overachieved when he has been a member of them whether we're talking about Phoenix, Jersey, Milwaukee, and when he first got to the Clippers. Problem is, as I said, he's not that guy anymore.

Who is expecting him to be? Once again, you're arguing with yourself. Noone, including Sam, is expecting him to have the same impact on the C's as he did with those teams. I love how you say "when he first go to the Clippers come on." Come on. He played with them for a season and a half. He wasn't a positive contribution for the 50 games he played with them last year? You leave out that the only team Sam hasn't been a positive contribution on is a 20 game or so stint with the Celtics. It is however, fair to expect him to be the quality backup with the ability he showed with the Clips last year, especially with a full training camp.

[bucknersrevenge]

Here's another one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that he didn't play for last place team with little talent and no chance to contend at the end of the year. He played for Boston. He walked into Boston and acted like he was the same #1 option on a bad team he was before. Fact is he played selfish, non-Celtic basketball. He was the anti-ubuntu. His defense was atrocious, his shooting actually got worse the longer he was here(which was his only real contribution as Detroit exposed him bringing the ball up too). He shot 24% against Cleveland and 23% against Detroit. Maybe Sam should go back to the Clippers or wherever else he can go to fire up jumper after jumper, freeze out our best player on offense in the playoffs or wherever else that works. In Boston that doesn't fly here.


Wow. In what part of your post did you rebut that Cassell played well for the Clippers last year? Yes, we all agree. Sam didn't play well with Boston last year. What does that have to do with how he played on LA?

This is the closest you came to rebutting what I said...


"
Here's another one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that he didn't play for last place team with little talent and no chance to contend at the end of the year. "

Is this a point? I don't understand what you're trying to say. Who's ignoring that Sam didn't play for the Clippers at the end of last year? Are you implying that Sam is a stat-padder who only put up good numbers because he was on a bad team? In that case, I'll point you to his championships as evidence to his game being successful on great teams.

Here's the point you made:

Sam hasn't played well in two years.

I counter with:

Sam played well last season in more games with the Clippers.

You respond with:

But Sam was bad in Boston!

And now I'm confused as to what you're responding to.

Well then let me clarify because that is absolutely NOT the point I made. What I said was that people are thinking that Sam is the same player he was a couple of years ago. A couple of years ago when he was putting up 17/6/4 numbers with 44% shooting including 37% from the arc. He's not that guy now and the only reason he had a starting job earlier this year to even put up the numbers he did put up was because their starters had a violent knee injury that cost him the year. Not to mention their top scorer Brand was also lost for the year.

And YES, he put up some mediocre numbers on a bad team. And if you're gonna point to championships as his measure of success you DO realize his last title before this year was as a member of the Houston Rockets during his 3rd year in the league right?? A team blessed with 2 of the top 50 NBA players of all-time. You gotta come with more than that. But I'll make your case. He has definitely improved countless teams where he gone and taken them to the playoffs. Teams have often overachieved when he has been a member of them whether we're talking about Phoenix, Jersey, Milwaukee, and when he first got to the Clippers. Problem is, as I said, he's not that guy anymore. He was atrocious for this team last year. For those who believe we needed another veteran, I say fine. I'll concede that point maybe but the Sam Cassell I saw last year leaves entirely too much to be desired and even nick a poster I've been debating with all night concedes that point.

Well, again you keep contradicting yourself.

"What I said was that people are thinking that Sam is the same player he was a couple of years ago. A couple of years ago when he was putting up 17/6/4 numbers with 44% shooting including 37% from the arc. "

What people are those? What Celtic fans are expecting him, as a guy in his late 30s, realistically to still have that ability? No one is arguing that point, so what are you responding to?

What people are arguing, and rightfully so, is that Cassell can return to the form that he was at...last season in over half a season with the Clippers.

He's not that guy now and the only reason he had a starting job earlier this year to even put up the numbers he did put up was because their starters had a violent knee injury that cost him the year.

Okay? So he stepped up, like he has his entire career except with a short stint with the C's, when a player got injured. That's a negative against him? How does that discount the numbers he put up?


And YES, he put up some mediocre numbers on a bad team.

Mediocre? How is 12 ppg in 24 minutes for a guy who we signed to be a 3rd string vet minimum back up mediocre? Please just admit that Sam played well for the Clippers and we could move on to a different argument. And why are you bringing up that Sam was on a bad team? By default, you're implying that Sam does not have the ability to put up numbers on a good team, which by his career history, is a false implication.

And if you're gonna point to championships as his measure of success you DO realize his last title before this year was as a member of the Houston Rockets during his 3rd year in the league right??

I see. Winning multiple titles only counts when you are later in your career.

Teams have often overachieved when he has been a member of them whether we're talking about Phoenix, Jersey, Milwaukee, and when he first got to the Clippers. Problem is, as I said, he's not that guy anymore.

Who is expecting him to be? Once again, you're arguing with yourself. Noone, including Sam, is expecting him to have the same impact on the C's as he did with those teams. I love how you say "when he first go to the Clippers come on." Come on. He played with them for a season and a half. He wasn't a positive contribution for the 50 games he played with them last year? You leave out that the only team Sam hasn't been a positive contribution on is a 20 game or so stint with the Celtics. It is however, fair to expect him to be the quality backup with the ability he showed with the Clips last year, especially with a full training camp.

Okay, I'm not sure where I'm not being clear here. What I'm saying is I don't think it's fair to expect that because he proved he couldn't get the job done. What you point to as an aberration I point to as part of a downward spiral that consummated with his destruction in the Detroit series where he got owned by Lindsey Hunter. He was counted on to be a steadying hand on the 2nd unit and he wasn't. He shot terribly, he was a sieve on defense and he froze out Paul in stretches in the playoffs with his selfish play. And earlier in the year when he wasn't playing he whined incessantly about it like a baby.

2 years ago he was still a solid player. After that, he began declining rapidly IMO. If nobody including Sam expects him to have that same kind of impact anymore why does he still PLAY like he is that player of old?? THAT is the point I'm making. Sam still thinks he's better than he is. I think he's disruptive to the offense on the floor and his ego almost killed us last year. On a Clippers team with nothing to play for, that's fine. Nobody cares in Clipperland. In Boston that doesn't cut it. Heinsohn remarked about it all the time late last year. Again, I never once saw Sam hit the roll man off a pick. Cmon...that's basic basketball no matter how old you are...unless you think you're above playing team basketball. I'm not contradicting myself. I've made the exact same point over and over again.

[kenmaine]

Gotta agree with Buckner in this argument. To me, there is no argument, unless you just want to debate for the sake of debating, which I suspect some of you are doing.
Cassell is 38, he's a selfish player, he shot horribly last year when it mattered, he doesn't play defense. When he was given playing time in the playoffs the C's almost lost to the Hawks and Cavs.
I know that's simplistic and he's only one of five on the floor at a time, but why sign an old player who actually hurt the team instead of helped?
 

[Yakmanev]

This is the worse news I've heard all year.

I know that's simplistic and he's only one of five on the floor at a time, but why sign an old player who actually hurt the team instead of helped?

Yes he is only one of five on the floor, but since he never passes the ball the other four can't be blamed for any of the team's dismal stints when Cassell is in the game.

[Brickowski]

If they want to bring him in as a non-roster assistant coach, that's ok I suppose.  He could suit up if there are a huge spate of injuries (on a 10-day contract), like Dana Barros did a few years ago. But he would be a total waste of a roster spot.

[ManUp]

I think the decision should've been House or Cassel. I don't see the point in having both. Maybe if Pruitt wasn't around but that's a big maybe. I can't see House or Cassel excepting a 3rdstring spot. The minutes simply aren't there for both of them at the backup point, atleast not the minutes they're expecting. Maybe Doc plans on having them play the two, but they would be undersized (severely in houses case) and an even bigger defensively liability than they already are.

Both players can bring something to this team, and each has his flaws. Although Cassel played horribly with us last season he might just have needed to learn the system. He did have a few 30 point games with Clippers last season so you know he can still play. Stat padding or not its the NBA and dropping 30 points is extremely hard for most players. If he could be more selective with his shots, and run the plays Cassel is a better pointguard and player than House.