Cassell Says He Will Sign Contract With Celtics Next Week

[soap07]

Gotta side with Cordobes on this one. This team is too overloaded with youth to successfully compete for a title. I disgree entirely with the idea that "now is the time" for another youth movement. It is anything but that. It's the time to get the starters the help they need to win another title.

We have everybody back from last season except James Posey. Posey is the difference between a youth movement and a roster that can compete for a championship? That's ridiculous.

Yes, I know we don't have PJ but the C's were doing just fine even before PJ was signed.

[johnnyrondo]

Gotta side with Cordobes on this one. This team is too overloaded with youth to successfully compete for a title. I disgree entirely with the idea that "now is the time" for another youth movement. It is anything but that. It's the time to get the starters the help they need to win another title.

We have everybody back from last season except James Posey. Posey is the difference between a youth movement and a roster that can compete for a championship? That's ridiculous.

Yes, I know we don't have PJ but the C's were doing just fine even before PJ was signed.

Echoing what soap07 says, not only did we only lose Posey, but all our rotation guys are a yr older. Pierce, KG, Ray, Cassell, Scal, and House will all be a yr older. Younger rotation players, Perkins, Rondo, Tony Allen, Powe, and BBD will all be a yr older. So I'd hesitate to say our team is too young to win a championship. It shouldn't be a stetch to expect more from that second group, now that they have another yr and a full playoff yr under their belt. IMO, we are a more experienced team this yr. Players 10-15 on the depth chart don't really get much if any playoff burn, so does it really matter who's waving the towel in their suit?

[Jon]

I truly hope that offseason boredom is spurring this ridiculous discussion.  If Cassell signs, it's really not a big deal.  He'll be signing for the minimum: the best case scenario is that he plays like he did a couple years ago and we have quality backup minutes to Rondo.  Worst case scenario he either rides the bench the entire year or we simply cut him at a small loss to Wyc's checkbook.  Unless you don't have faith in Doc's abilities as coach, we shouldn't have to worry about him play Cassell this season (after he has an entire preseason to let him compete with House), if he really doesn't beat out House. 

As for the possibility we might to cut Pruitt to keep Cassell on the roster, it's really not a big deal.  The chances of Pruitt being anything more than a bench player in this league are minuscule, and the chance's of him even being a bench player are small.  If Pruitt is cut, chances are we can find someone else like him in the second round next year.  Heck, there's a pretty good chance that if we cut Pruitt he'd be around later this season or next offseason to re-sign anyway.  So I wouldn't loose sleep over that. 

Overall, I just can't get my head around how bothered people are about this.  If Eddie House is as good as some of you say he is and Doc is a half-decent coach, people should have nothing to worry about. 

[bucknersrevenge]

I truly hope that offseason boredom is spurring this ridiculous discussion.  If Cassell signs, it's really not a big deal.  He'll be signing for the minimum: the best case scenario is that he plays like he did a couple years ago and we have quality backup minutes to Rondo.  Worst case scenario he either rides the bench the entire year or we simply cut him at a small loss to Wyc's checkbook.  Unless you don't have faith in Doc's abilities as coach, we shouldn't have to worry about him play Cassell this season (after he has an entire preseason to let him compete with House), if he really doesn't beat out House. 

As for the possibility we might to cut Pruitt to keep Cassell on the roster, it's really not a big deal.  The chances of Pruitt being anything more than a bench player in this league are minuscule, and the chance's of him even being a bench player are small.  If Pruitt is cut, chances are we can find someone else like him in the second round next year.  Heck, there's a pretty good chance that if we cut Pruitt he'd be around later this season or next offseason to re-sign anyway.  So I wouldn't loose sleep over that. 

Overall, I just can't get my head around how bothered people are about this.  If Eddie House is as good as some of you say he is and Doc is a half-decent coach, people should have nothing to worry about. 

Here's one of my big issues. People are betting on Sam being that player he was 2 years ago because of his 15 year history. Because he's a known quantity. Problem is I think what we know about him is changing. I'd rather not bet on him going back in time and becoming the player he was a while ago. What my eyes told me at the end of last year says he's done as a player. At the very least he doesn't fit on this team. If Danny had chosen to sign as a veteran, Jacque Vaughn, or Ty Lue, even Darrell Armstrong I'd probably be a little less bothered. While I remain unconvinced that a tandem of House and Pruitt couldn't handle the backup PG spots for 15 mpg(seeing as how House handled it fine by himself for a full season) at least those others have something left in the tank and are not complete "ubuntu-killers". Sam last year was the exact opposite of everything being a Celtic stood for last year.

But what it does say to me is that Danny has to be lying about Pruitt and how much he likes him which is fine. In and of itself replacing Pruitt with a vet pg I don't really have a problem with. Although Pruitt has no trade value right now and if he cuts him hes still on the hook for Pruitts money next year. But the particular choice bothers me. Sam seemed wholly uninterested last year in letting anyone else even look at the ball when he was on the floor even going so far as to freeze Paul out of games at times in the playoffs. Eddie's ballhandling issues have been way overblown on this board. The guy keeps the ball moving and keeps people involved. If Doc does indeed plan to have Eddie playing some 2 this year(which I have not heard any word of), that's fine. But there's no doubt in my mind that while Cassell may be a more talented overall player than Eddie has by far proven to be the better fit and the better Celtic.

[Vermont Green]

Eddie's ballhandling issues have been way overblown on this board. The guy keeps the ball moving and keeps people involved. If Doc does indeed plan to have Eddie playing some 2 this year(which I have not heard any word of), that's fine. But there's no doubt in my mind that while Cassell may be a more talented overall player than Eddie has by far proven to be the better fit and the better Celtic.

I think you need to be careful how you classify Eddie's role or position.  He can defend the other team PG very well so that is not a problem.  He does though have trouble bringing the ball up which Detroit made clear to the whole league so look for more of that kind of pressure from other teams.  There are other ways to get the ball over half court but it is a tradeoff you have when Eddie is on the floor.  The big thing with Eddie is that his offense is based on him moving without the ball.  Once you make him the primary ball handler to run the offense, you basically take his offense out of it.  The same happens to a large degree with Ray Allen.  That is why those two guys on the court at the same time is not a good combination.  One or the other of them has to have the ball but both want to be moving without the ball and spotting up.

I know that you can say that either player can dribble and whatever but that is not the primary game for either.  Put them both on the court on the same time and one or the other gets neutralized.  Counting on Eddie to be the playmaker, table setter PG just isn't going to work.  Actually Sam and Eddie made a good pair.  Sam is very comfortable with the ball (to a fault) but can't cover the quicker PG's.  He is big enough to cover many back-up SG's and Eddie can handle most back-up PG's and even many starters.

[bucknersrevenge]

Eddie's ballhandling issues have been way overblown on this board. The guy keeps the ball moving and keeps people involved. If Doc does indeed plan to have Eddie playing some 2 this year(which I have not heard any word of), that's fine. But there's no doubt in my mind that while Cassell may be a more talented overall player than Eddie has by far proven to be the better fit and the better Celtic.

I think you need to be careful how you classify Eddie's role or position.  He can defend the other team PG very well so that is not a problem.  He does though have trouble bringing the ball up which Detroit made clear to the whole league so look for more of that kind of pressure from other teams.  There are other ways to get the ball over half court but it is a tradeoff you have when Eddie is on the floor.  The big thing with Eddie is that his offense is based on him moving without the ball.  Once you make him the primary ball handler to run the offense, you basically take his offense out of it.  The same happens to a large degree with Ray Allen.  That is why those two guys on the court at the same time is not a good combination.  One or the other of them has to have the ball but both want to be moving without the ball and spotting up.

I know that you can say that either player can dribble and whatever but that is not the primary game for either.  Put them both on the court on the same time and one or the other gets neutralized.  Counting on Eddie to be the playmaker, table setter PG just isn't going to work.  Actually Sam and Eddie made a good pair.  Sam is very comfortable with the ball (to a fault) but can't cover the quicker PG's.  He is big enough to cover many back-up SG's and Eddie can handle most back-up PG's and even many starters.

I think you need to be careful how you classify Sam and his role and position. Sam is NOT a big PG. Not sure where you're getting that from cuz he's not. He's 6'3 but he is not by any stretch big nor does he have long arms to contest out on the perimeter. Then again as if he could get into position to contest because he's too slow to get into position to do so and too short to disrupt any 2guard's jumpshot even if he wanted to. Sam and Eddie made a bad pair but then again last year Sam was a bad pair with anyone that was not named Sam as his job was to walk up the court hide behind a pick and shoot first, shoot second, and when that failed, post up and shoot third.

Eddie could bring the ball up but if not Paul could do it. I agree that he would have to be on the floor whenever Eddie was and in fact Paul and Eddie were the 2 that made the great pair as they often worked those pick n pop plays to perfection whenever they were on the court together.

[soap07]

Here's one of my big issues. People are betting on Sam being that player he was 2 years ago because of his 15 year history.

Here's one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that Sam played very well for the Clippers last year. If I'm not mistaken, Sam played more games with the Clips than with the C's and put up very good numbers (12 PPG on 46% shooting, something like that).

[KevinGamble]

It's been fun reading about the youth movement vs. Senior-Sam weigh-ins, but for me, Off-seasons are all about thinking about when players "jump" up in ability.  Last year, we saw the 200 mph Lamborghini, we pinched ourselves, and we wondered about our bench and if Perk-o-lator and Rondo were ready for the jump. 

This is still my favorite job as a fan, but when I looked up roster limits in preseason, this is the best I could get

  http://www.insidehoops.com/training-camp.shtml
"NBA teams can have up to 15 players signed for the regular season. But teams often bring more than 15 guys to training camp."

good enough for me!  I am satisfied that Pruitt and Miles and others can compete for a roster space.  If they have some shine, we should really keep 'em, and keep the youth movement, cause the "free agents who are dying to come to the celtics on the cheap" thing hasn't wowed any fans so far.

Going to see the gold hardware tomorrow in Burlington !  Go Celts! 

[gar]

Would rather see him in a suit (coaching) as insurance should someone get injured. That way you can keep him wrapped up without wasting a roster spot. Ainge seemed to be very deliberate in emphasizing the player role and was vague about the coaching role. Can participate in training camp and then go on the coaching staff - and still be avail. later on?

[zerophase]

Would rather see him in a suit (coaching) as insurance should someone get injured. That way you can keep him wrapped up without wasting a roster spot. Ainge seemed to be very deliberate in emphasizing the player role and was vague about the coaching role. Can participate in training camp and then go on the coaching staff - and still be avail. later on?

how much of that is still legal? as far as I know player coaches are not allowed anymore.

[CoachBo]

Gotta side with Cordobes on this one. This team is too overloaded with youth to successfully compete for a title. I disgree entirely with the idea that "now is the time" for another youth movement. It is anything but that. It's the time to get the starters the help they need to win another title.

We have everybody back from last season except James Posey. Posey is the difference between a youth movement and a roster that can compete for a championship? That's ridiculous.

Yes, I know we don't have PJ but the C's were doing just fine even before PJ was signed.

Echoing what soap07 says, not only did we only lose Posey, but all our rotation guys are a yr older. Pierce, KG, Ray, Cassell, Scal, and House will all be a yr older. Younger rotation players, Perkins, Rondo, Tony Allen, Powe, and BBD will all be a yr older. So I'd hesitate to say our team is too young to win a championship. It shouldn't be a stetch to expect more from that second group, now that they have another yr and a full playoff yr under their belt. IMO, we are a more experienced team this yr. Players 10-15 on the depth chart don't really get much if any playoff burn, so does it really matter who's waving the towel in their suit?

Assuming improvement based on a year of experience is a glaring fallacy. Tony Allen is proof of that. Four years in the league without substantitive improvement. The only thing he leads the league in is fan alibis for his mental ineptitude on the bench.

This team is too young on the bench to win a title. There is no quality whatsoever at the 5 behind Perkins and there isn't enough outside shooting. Hopefully, these signs mean Danny intends to address that.

[bucknersrevenge]

Here's one of my big issues. People are betting on Sam being that player he was 2 years ago because of his 15 year history.

Here's one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that Sam played very well for the Clippers last year. If I'm not mistaken, Sam played more games with the Clips than with the C's and put up very good numbers (12 PPG on 46% shooting, something like that).

Here's another one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that he didn't play for last place team with little talent and no chance to contend at the end of the year. He played for Boston. He walked into Boston and acted like he was the same #1 option on a bad team he was before. Fact is he played selfish, non-Celtic basketball. He was the anti-ubuntu. His defense was atrocious, his shooting actually got worse the longer he was here(which was his only real contribution as Detroit exposed him bringing the ball up too). He shot 24% against Cleveland and 23% against Detroit. Maybe Sam should go back to the Clippers or wherever else he can go to fire up jumper after jumper, freeze out our best player on offense in the playoffs or wherever else that works. In Boston that doesn't fly here.

[nickagneta]

Here's one of my big issues. People are betting on Sam being that player he was 2 years ago because of his 15 year history.

Here's one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that Sam played very well for the Clippers last year. If I'm not mistaken, Sam played more games with the Clips than with the C's and put up very good numbers (12 PPG on 46% shooting, something like that).

Here's another one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that he didn't play for last place team with little talent and no chance to contend at the end of the year. He played for Boston. He walked into Boston and acted like he was the same #1 option on a bad team he was before. Fact is he played selfish, non-Celtic basketball. He was the anti-ubuntu. His defense was atrocious, his shooting actually got worse the longer he was here(which was his only real contribution as Detroit exposed him bringing the ball up too). He shot 24% against Cleveland and 23% against Detroit. Maybe Sam should go back to the Clippers or wherever else he can go to fire up jumper after jumper, freeze out our best player on offense in the playoffs or wherever else that works. In Boston that doesn't fly here.

Before knocking Cassell for his poor shooting during the playoffs you might want to know that House, the player you are so much higher on than Sam, actually shot worse in the playoffs than Sam did. Sam shot 33% overall and House shot 30%. And that's after Eddie shot 35% for the final 2 months of the regular season.

I don't want Sam back on this team, but mostly because I think his time and skills have left him behind. If Sam could roll back time and play like the player he played like just 2 or 3 years ago, he would be a better backup PG option than House.

But I don't think he can do that so he shouldn't be signed. Just my opinion. That 15th spot would be much better spent on a backup 5 or 3.

All I'm trying to say is that before dismissing Sam as done because he shot poorly in the playoffs, know that the other guy didn't shoot so well either. Sam is old and was unfamiliar with the offense. What was House's excuse for such poor shooting from March 1st on?

Don't get me wrong, I want Eddie here before I would ever want Sam here, but look at it from Danny's POV. Neither veteran backup PG lit the court on fire with their play anytime during the spring or summer of last year. Danny may think Sam still has something based on his play in LA where he was familiar with his team mates and system. Could Sam still play at that level if given more PT with the players here and as he gets to know the Celtics system better? Because all things considered, once Sam got here, neither Sam nor Eddie played all that well. Sam had an excuse, he was unfamiliar with the team and the players here. Eddie didn't have an excuse. At least, maybe, just maybe, that's the way Danny sees it.

[EJPLAYA]

Here's one of my big issues. People are betting on Sam being that player he was 2 years ago because of his 15 year history.

Here's one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that Sam played very well for the Clippers last year. If I'm not mistaken, Sam played more games with the Clips than with the C's and put up very good numbers (12 PPG on 46% shooting, something like that).

Here's another one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that he didn't play for last place team with little talent and no chance to contend at the end of the year. He played for Boston. He walked into Boston and acted like he was the same #1 option on a bad team he was before. Fact is he played selfish, non-Celtic basketball. He was the anti-ubuntu. His defense was atrocious, his shooting actually got worse the longer he was here(which was his only real contribution as Detroit exposed him bringing the ball up too). He shot 24% against Cleveland and 23% against Detroit. Maybe Sam should go back to the Clippers or wherever else he can go to fire up jumper after jumper, freeze out our best player on offense in the playoffs or wherever else that works. In Boston that doesn't fly here.

Before knocking Cassell for his poor shooting during the playoffs you might want to know that House, the player you are so much higher on than Sam, actually shot worse in the playoffs than Sam did. Sam shot 33% overall and House shot 30%. And that's after Eddie shot 35% for the final 2 months of the regular season.

I don't want Sam back on this team, but mostly because I think his time and skills have left him behind. If Sam could roll back time and play like the player he played like just 2 or 3 years ago, he would be a better backup PG option than House.

But I don't think he can do that so he shouldn't be signed. Just my opinion. That 15th spot would be much better spent on a backup 5 or 3.

All I'm trying to say is that before dismissing Sam as done because he shot poorly in the playoffs, know that the other guy didn't shoot so well either. Sam is old and was unfamiliar with the offense. What was House's excuse for such poor shooting from March 1st on?

Don't get me wrong, I want Eddie here before I would ever want Sam here, but look at it from Danny's POV. Neither veteran backup PG lit the court on fire with their play anytime during the spring or summer of last year. Danny may think Sam still has something based on his play in LA where he was familiar with his team mates and system. Could Sam still play at that level if given more PT with the players here and as he gets to know the Celtics system better? Because all things considered, once Sam got here, neither Sam nor Eddie played all that well. Sam had an excuse, he was unfamiliar with the team and the players here. Eddie didn't have an excuse. At least, maybe, just maybe, that's the way Danny sees it.

The problem with your logic is that Sam had been handed the playing time for over a month and House got no game time. To expect him to come in after seeing no action for all that time and instantly be able to be in a good flow is crazy. Sam got worse the more he played which is why it forced Doc to play House. House played better and better each game and became more valuable. Had he not gifted House's spot to Sam we would have been better all along.

Eddie did have an excuse. Rust caused by a bad decision to give Sam his minutes.

[nickagneta]

Here's one of my big issues. People are betting on Sam being that player he was 2 years ago because of his 15 year history.

Here's one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that Sam played very well for the Clippers last year. If I'm not mistaken, Sam played more games with the Clips than with the C's and put up very good numbers (12 PPG on 46% shooting, something like that).

Here's another one of my big issues - when people ignore the fact that he didn't play for last place team with little talent and no chance to contend at the end of the year. He played for Boston. He walked into Boston and acted like he was the same #1 option on a bad team he was before. Fact is he played selfish, non-Celtic basketball. He was the anti-ubuntu. His defense was atrocious, his shooting actually got worse the longer he was here(which was his only real contribution as Detroit exposed him bringing the ball up too). He shot 24% against Cleveland and 23% against Detroit. Maybe Sam should go back to the Clippers or wherever else he can go to fire up jumper after jumper, freeze out our best player on offense in the playoffs or wherever else that works. In Boston that doesn't fly here.

Before knocking Cassell for his poor shooting during the playoffs you might want to know that House, the player you are so much higher on than Sam, actually shot worse in the playoffs than Sam did. Sam shot 33% overall and House shot 30%. And that's after Eddie shot 35% for the final 2 months of the regular season.

I don't want Sam back on this team, but mostly because I think his time and skills have left him behind. If Sam could roll back time and play like the player he played like just 2 or 3 years ago, he would be a better backup PG option than House.

But I don't think he can do that so he shouldn't be signed. Just my opinion. That 15th spot would be much better spent on a backup 5 or 3.

All I'm trying to say is that before dismissing Sam as done because he shot poorly in the playoffs, know that the other guy didn't shoot so well either. Sam is old and was unfamiliar with the offense. What was House's excuse for such poor shooting from March 1st on?

Don't get me wrong, I want Eddie here before I would ever want Sam here, but look at it from Danny's POV. Neither veteran backup PG lit the court on fire with their play anytime during the spring or summer of last year. Danny may think Sam still has something based on his play in LA where he was familiar with his team mates and system. Could Sam still play at that level if given more PT with the players here and as he gets to know the Celtics system better? Because all things considered, once Sam got here, neither Sam nor Eddie played all that well. Sam had an excuse, he was unfamiliar with the team and the players here. Eddie didn't have an excuse. At least, maybe, just maybe, that's the way Danny sees it.

The problem with your logic is that Sam had been handed the playing time for over a month and House got no game time. To expect him to come in after seeing no action for all that time and instantly be able to be in a good flow is crazy. Sam got worse the more he played which is why it forced Doc to play House. House played better and better each game and became more valuable. Had he not gifted House's spot to Sam we would have been better all along.

Eddie did have an excuse. Rust caused by a bad decision to give Sam his minutes.

Sorry, I don't cut bench players slack for being unable to do their job, which is, to come off the bench cold and produce. That is his career. He gets paid millions of dollars every year to do just that. That isn't an excuse in my book.

Also, Eddie's minutes barely dipped during the regular season time that Sam was here and yet his numbers were already starting to slip, so what you say isn't even correct.

Eddie is my choice to go forward with and he got a bit of a shaft last year but his own performance may have led to the Celtics looking elsewhere. He gets pasid to come in cold and hit shots. He wasn't doing it that well at the end of the year and he got worse in the playoffs. I'm sorry but I don't give your excuse for Eddie any credence even if many others might.

And I'm not going any further than that because I've had this convo before and no one is going to change my mind. We'll just agree to disagree that that isn't an excuse in my opinion.