Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"

[mkogav]

Lets not forget O Bryant will at least be no worse than Polard was.

I am struggling to figure out how anyone could be a worse player than Pollard was.

The only thing I can come up with is that he actually plays and contributes to a point where Danny immediately signs him to a six year extension.

The following game, OB plays 40 minutes, shoots 2-12, 0 rebounds, 6 TOs, and plays no D. At the final buzzer, OB walks to center court, pulls off his mask, and with a maniacal laugh reveals he is really Mark Blount!!!

Yeah, I think that would do it.

Mk

found one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3019




Before you get upset, compare to

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=0664

Hmmmm... interesting that one of these two players has a contract and the other one doesn't.

Mk

Why? 

sigh...

[wdleehi]

Lets not forget O Bryant will at least be no worse than Polard was.

I am struggling to figure out how anyone could be a worse player than Pollard was.

The only thing I can come up with is that he actually plays and contributes to a point where Danny immediately signs him to a six year extension.

The following game, OB plays 40 minutes, shoots 2-12, 0 rebounds, 6 TOs, and plays no D. At the final buzzer, OB walks to center court, pulls off his mask, and with a maniacal laugh reveals he is really Mark Blount!!!

Yeah, I think that would do it.

Mk

found one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3019




Before you get upset, compare to

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=0664

Hmmmm... interesting that one of these two players has a contract and the other one doesn't.

Mk

Why? 

sigh...

The answer is actually age.  That's all. 

[incoherent]

Thanks for making me do a lot of pointless scrolling.

[Redz]

Lets not forget O Bryant will at least be no worse than Polard was.

I am struggling to figure out how anyone could be a worse player than Pollard was.

The only thing I can come up with is that he actually plays and contributes to a point where Danny immediately signs him to a six year extension.

The following game, OB plays 40 minutes, shoots 2-12, 0 rebounds, 6 TOs, and plays no D. At the final buzzer, OB walks to center court, pulls off his mask, and with a maniacal laugh reveals he is really Mark Blount!!!

Yeah, I think that would do it.

Mk

found one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3019




Before you get upset, compare to

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=0664

Hmmmm... interesting that one of these two players has a contract and the other one doesn't.

Mk

Why? 

Keith Van Horn had a contract last year

[nickagneta]

I have to add myself to those who last year at this time thought the bench was solid and liked the additions of Posey and House. But after seeing what House, Allen, Posey, Brown, Pollard and Cassell did for this team I just felt there were better options for this team this year than the players that Danny brought in.

Is that just negative nonsense because at this point there is actually no proof that Danny has done a bad job, I don't think so. I think if one looks at the overall careers and health of the player Danny added this year and compare them to other people who were available and to what left this team, that I reasonable argument can be made that the overall bench is not as good as it was.

Proponents of this season bring up the increased athleticism, increased talent, and increased potential of this year's bench. Realize this though, entire teams out there are loaded with youth, talent, athleticism and potential and they don't even sniff a chance at the NBA Championship. Those elements belong in large amounts on rebuilding teams not on championship contenders and now, unfortunately, this team is loaded with that type of player.

Luckily, as wd keeps bringing up, Danny's time to add and manipulate this team isn't over and we could see a completely different team come playoff time.

BTW, I happen to think that Danny's overall talent evaluating skills are fairly murky given both the rookies and veterans he has pursued over the years. This is a guy who would have picked Robert Swift over Big Al if both were available. He did draft Orien Greene and traded away the ability to draft Brandon Roy. His draft last year is still up in the air as Pruitt has yet to show anything and Baby could still eat his way out of the NBA. He's also the guy that made a bunch of trades for some very questionable talent. Without the two trades he made last summer, Danny might very well have been out of a job right now and would be called a horrible talent evaluator and manager.

[bucknersrevenge]

Lets not forget O Bryant will at least be no worse than Polard was.

I am struggling to figure out how anyone could be a worse player than Pollard was.

The only thing I can come up with is that he actually plays and contributes to a point where Danny immediately signs him to a six year extension.

The following game, OB plays 40 minutes, shoots 2-12, 0 rebounds, 6 TOs, and plays no D. At the final buzzer, OB walks to center court, pulls off his mask, and with a maniacal laugh reveals he is really Mark Blount!!!

Yeah, I think that would do it.

Mk

found one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3019




Before you get upset, compare to

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=0664

Hmmmm... interesting that one of these two players has a contract and the other one doesn't.

Mk

Why? 

sigh...

The answer is actually age.  That's all. 

You mean HEALTH. That is all. One player proved he can stay healthy while the other player cannot. One player played in 22 games because he cannot be counted on to be healthy when the team needs him. The other played in 24 games only because his coach didn't want to play him.

[Sweet17]

Pete, if you're going to troll my posts, at least back it up.  Where or when did I say I didn't like last year's bench?  Once we got Posey, I -- like a lot of others -- thought the team was a legitimate championship contender.  

Few pundits thought we were legit champion contenders and singled out our bench as why. Your saying I unfairly lumped you in with those guys. Sorry. But you certainly sound like one of those guys right now.  Your doing the same thing those pundits did last year.

So you claim you thought we were championship contenders last year? What you don't think we are championship contenders this year? Is that your official prediction?

And this is because of James Posey?

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708BOS.HTM

Look at Posey's on court/off court numbers -9.7. Look at his net PER -3.O. The other bench guys are back (besides Pollard) PJ Brown says he might come back too. Looks like unwarranted doom and gloom to me.

It's not hard to imagine the TA/Giddens/Miles committee can outpace that.. The C's are absolutely championship contenders this year. When you consider how much luck they needed to win last year (one bad bounce and they lose to Cleveland) I can see why Danny wanted to make some changes. Maybe he felt we needed someone a bit more athletic then James Posey to guard Lebron James. <g>

Pete

[wdleehi]

Pete, if you're going to troll my posts, at least back it up.  Where or when did I say I didn't like last year's bench?  Once we got Posey, I -- like a lot of others -- thought the team was a legitimate championship contender.  

Few pundits thought we were legit champion contenders and singled out our bench as why. Your saying I unfairly lumped you in with those guys. Sorry. But you certainly sound like one of those guys right now.  Your doing the same thing those pundits did last year.

So you claim you thought we were championship contenders last year? What you don't think we are championship contenders this year? Is that your official prediction?

And this is because of James Posey?

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708BOS.HTM

Look at Posey's on court/off court numbers -9.7. Look at his net PER -3.O. The other bench guys are back (besides Pollard) PJ Brown says he might come back too. Looks like unwarranted doom and gloom to me.

It's not hard to imagine the TA/Giddens/Miles committee can outpace that.. The C's are absolutely championship contenders this year. When you consider how much luck they needed to win last year (one bad bounce and they lose to Cleveland) I can see why Danny wanted to make some changes. Maybe he felt we needed someone a bit more athletic then James Posey to guard Lebron James. <g>

Pete

Look at this.


http://www.82games.com/0708/07BOS8C.HTM



When they played him out of position so often during the season, it hurt his numbers.

At SF, he caused a positive effect.



When Powe and Davis was used more often at PF and Posey spent more time at SF, his effectiveness became more and more apparent. 

[Sweet17]

I have to add myself to those who last year at this time thought the bench was solid and liked the additions of Posey and House. But after seeing what House, Allen, Posey, Brown, Pollard and Cassell did for this team I just felt there were better options for this team this year than the players that Danny brought in.

Not better options on the CHEAP. That's what Danny did last year - lest you forget. He got us Posey who was not really under "hot pursuit" at the time. He got us House who everyone thought was a waste because all he was was a one dimensional shooter. Again - he didn't really command a lot on the open market now did he?

Danny is betting that this combined talents of the big 3 will make a rather motley looking crew of a bench look good. But that's exactly what they did last year. For me if we win 60+ games I consider his moves a success. I think their are too many luck factors and thus its ridiculously unfair to say you failed if you don't win a championship again.

I think in addition we could see some growth out of Powe and Rondo. We might even see something out of Pruitt. There is tons of reasons for optomism. By going young Danny has given us a team that has some upside in addition to the stellar play of the big 3. The kind of surefire vets he would need would be well out of our price range. Posey value absolutley skyrockted..he went from a guy that couldn't earn 3 million last year to 5 million dollar guy? he is one year old.. crazy.

Pete

[nickagneta]

Pete, if you're going to troll my posts, at least back it up.  Where or when did I say I didn't like last year's bench?  Once we got Posey, I -- like a lot of others -- thought the team was a legitimate championship contender.  

Few pundits thought we were legit champion contenders and singled out our bench as why. Your saying I unfairly lumped you in with those guys. Sorry. But you certainly sound like one of those guys right now.  Your doing the same thing those pundits did last year.

So you claim you thought we were championship contenders last year? What you don't think we are championship contenders this year? Is that your official prediction?

And this is because of James Posey?

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708BOS.HTM

Look at Posey's on court/off court numbers -9.7. Look at his net PER -3.O. The other bench guys are back (besides Pollard) PJ Brown says he might come back too. Looks like unwarranted doom and gloom to me.

It's not hard to imagine the TA/Giddens/Miles committee can outpace that.. The C's are absolutely championship contenders this year. When you consider how much luck they needed to win last year (one bad bounce and they lose to Cleveland) I can see why Danny wanted to make some changes. Maybe he felt we needed someone a bit more athletic then James Posey to guard Lebron James. <g>

Pete

Not that Roy needs any defending but how do you jump to the conclusion that Roy believes the Celtics aren't contenders this year simply because he doesn't like what Danny did in the off season for the Celtics bench?

I agree with Roy that the Celtics took a step back with the off season additions. But that doesn't mean I don't think they can contend. On the contrary I still think they are the team to beat. I just so happen to feel they would have been tougher to defeat if Danny went about his business differently.

Why is that so hard for people to understand? We can be positive about this team but not like the players Danny gathered on the bench to help the team defend the title. We are not being naysayers or negative. We are just looking at the off season as objectively as we can.

[bucknersrevenge]

I have to add myself to those who last year at this time thought the bench was solid and liked the additions of Posey and House. But after seeing what House, Allen, Posey, Brown, Pollard and Cassell did for this team I just felt there were better options for this team this year than the players that Danny brought in.

Is that just negative nonsense because at this point there is actually no proof that Danny has done a bad job, I don't think so. I think if one looks at the overall careers and health of the player Danny added this year and compare them to other people who were available and to what left this team, that I reasonable argument can be made that the overall bench is not as good as it was.

Proponents of this season bring up the increased athleticism, increased talent, and increased potential of this year's bench. Realize this though, entire teams out there are loaded with youth, talent, athleticism and potential and they don't even sniff a chance at the NBA Championship. Those elements belong in large amounts on rebuilding teams not on championship contenders and now, unfortunately, this team is loaded with that type of player.

Luckily, as wd keeps bringing up, Danny's time to add and manipulate this team isn't over and we could see a completely different team come playoff time.

BTW, I happen to think that Danny's overall talent evaluating skills are fairly murky given both the rookies and veterans he has pursued over the years. This is a guy who would have picked Robert Swift over Big Al if both were available. He did draft Orien Greene and traded away the ability to draft Brandon Roy. His draft last year is still up in the air as Pruitt has yet to show anything and Baby could still eat his way out of the NBA. He's also the guy that made a bunch of trades for some very questionable talent. Without the two trades he made last summer, Danny might very well have been out of a job right now and would be called a horrible talent evaluator and manager.

Exactly the point. Those teams don't usually because that's ALL that those teams can offer. This team team "sniff a title" because we just WON a title. This team returns all 5 staters and another 4 that played valuable roles off the bench at various times last year. And NOW they get to add the athleticism and talent that you'd normally associate with bad teams but put it in the hands of a team with a core of veteran talent coming off a championship.

As for Danny we can probably go down the list of every GM and chronicle their mistakes if we want to. But in the end it wouldn't do any good because we'd be right back where we started. You can't judge moves in a vacuum. Danny evaluated the talent and made the moves to bring a banner here. that's it. Every other GM tried to do that last year and they failed. Danny didn't. And we can go down the list with every GM and dissect their moves and point to something. Problem is we all don't have a microscope aimed at all the other GM's in the league. It's easier to pick on Danny. Pretty convenient too. Only problem is Danny's backed up his body of work with results. None of our previous GMs can do that.

[bucknersrevenge]

Pete, if you're going to troll my posts, at least back it up.  Where or when did I say I didn't like last year's bench?  Once we got Posey, I -- like a lot of others -- thought the team was a legitimate championship contender.  

Few pundits thought we were legit champion contenders and singled out our bench as why. Your saying I unfairly lumped you in with those guys. Sorry. But you certainly sound like one of those guys right now.  Your doing the same thing those pundits did last year.

So you claim you thought we were championship contenders last year? What you don't think we are championship contenders this year? Is that your official prediction?

And this is because of James Posey?

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708BOS.HTM

Look at Posey's on court/off court numbers -9.7. Look at his net PER -3.O. The other bench guys are back (besides Pollard) PJ Brown says he might come back too. Looks like unwarranted doom and gloom to me.

It's not hard to imagine the TA/Giddens/Miles committee can outpace that.. The C's are absolutely championship contenders this year. When you consider how much luck they needed to win last year (one bad bounce and they lose to Cleveland) I can see why Danny wanted to make some changes. Maybe he felt we needed someone a bit more athletic then James Posey to guard Lebron James. <g>

Pete

Not that Roy needs any defending but how do you jump to the conclusion that Roy believes the Celtics aren't contenders this year simply because he doesn't like what Danny did in the off season for the Celtics bench?

I agree with Roy that the Celtics took a step back with the off season additions. But that doesn't mean I don't think they can contend. On the contrary I still think they are the team to beat. I just so happen to feel they would have been tougher to defeat if Danny went about his business differently.

Why is that so hard for people to understand? We can be positive about this team but not like the players Danny gathered on the bench to help the team defend the title. We are not being naysayers or negative. We are just looking at the off season as objectively as we can.

I think i understand what you're saying. I just don't get the point. It's like saying with Posey(or whomever) our chances to repeat were 93%. Without them we're at 90%. Oh well...Guess we'll just have to make it by on the strength of the starting core that returns and all the talent we've added. This debate has spawned 8 pages but all in all I think the lack of additional vets in the end at this particular time is a complete non-issue, not really worthy of all the debate its caused.

[BballTim]

Pete, if you're going to troll my posts, at least back it up.  Where or when did I say I didn't like last year's bench?  Once we got Posey, I -- like a lot of others -- thought the team was a legitimate championship contender. 

Few pundits thought we were legit champion contenders and singled out our bench as why. Your saying I unfairly lumped you in with those guys. Sorry. But you certainly sound like one of those guys right now.  Your doing the same thing those pundits did last year.

So you claim you thought we were championship contenders last year? What you don't think we are championship contenders this year? Is that your official prediction?

And this is because of James Posey?

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708BOS.HTM

Look at Posey's on court/off court numbers -9.7. Look at his net PER -3.O. The other bench guys are back (besides Pollard) PJ Brown says he might come back too. Looks like unwarranted doom and gloom to me.

It's not hard to imagine the TA/Giddens/Miles committee can outpace that.. The C's are absolutely championship contenders this year. When you consider how much luck they needed to win last year (one bad bounce and they lose to Cleveland) I can see why Danny wanted to make some changes. Maybe he felt we needed someone a bit more athletic then James Posey to guard Lebron James. <g>

Pete

Not that Roy needs any defending but how do you jump to the conclusion that Roy believes the Celtics aren't contenders this year simply because he doesn't like what Danny did in the off season for the Celtics bench?

I agree with Roy that the Celtics took a step back with the off season additions. But that doesn't mean I don't think they can contend. On the contrary I still think they are the team to beat. I just so happen to feel they would have been tougher to defeat if Danny went about his business differently.

Why is that so hard for people to understand? We can be positive about this team but not like the players Danny gathered on the bench to help the team defend the title. We are not being naysayers or negative. We are just looking at the off season as objectively as we can.

  (Amost) everyone considers their own opinion to be objective. But I don't understand criticizing Ainge so much for the roster he's created and then turning around and saying you think we're still the best team in the league. Especially people who weren't part of the "we're doomed without Posey" crowd.

  I personally agree that we would be a better team this coming year with Posey than we will be without him. I don't think I've ever stated or implied anything else. But I still think Danny was right to not sign Posey as he was IMO less irreplaceable than some people think.

  I think that, with our current roster, we can be as good as we were last year. So I consider the "we took a step backwards" comments to be negative.

  I disagree with the claims that many have made that the constitution of our bench will force Doc to play the big 3 big minutes during the season so they'll be spent when the playoffs start. I'd consider that opinion to be negative.

  Finally (and I'll have no problem apologizing if I'm wrong about this) I think that all the claims that Ainge miscalculated on the market for Posey or other free agents or that he let players that he wanted to sign slip away while he was waiting for Posey are made up out of whole cloth. Someone posted that because they were upset about the route that Ainge took this offseason, it gets repeated, and eventually it's taken as fact. Kind of like the way Wyc was going to let Theo expire because he was too cheap to trade Theo for a player with a big contract.

[nickagneta]

Pete, if you're going to troll my posts, at least back it up.  Where or when did I say I didn't like last year's bench?  Once we got Posey, I -- like a lot of others -- thought the team was a legitimate championship contender. 

Few pundits thought we were legit champion contenders and singled out our bench as why. Your saying I unfairly lumped you in with those guys. Sorry. But you certainly sound like one of those guys right now.  Your doing the same thing those pundits did last year.

So you claim you thought we were championship contenders last year? What you don't think we are championship contenders this year? Is that your official prediction?

And this is because of James Posey?

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708BOS.HTM

Look at Posey's on court/off court numbers -9.7. Look at his net PER -3.O. The other bench guys are back (besides Pollard) PJ Brown says he might come back too. Looks like unwarranted doom and gloom to me.

It's not hard to imagine the TA/Giddens/Miles committee can outpace that.. The C's are absolutely championship contenders this year. When you consider how much luck they needed to win last year (one bad bounce and they lose to Cleveland) I can see why Danny wanted to make some changes. Maybe he felt we needed someone a bit more athletic then James Posey to guard Lebron James. <g>

Pete

Not that Roy needs any defending but how do you jump to the conclusion that Roy believes the Celtics aren't contenders this year simply because he doesn't like what Danny did in the off season for the Celtics bench?

I agree with Roy that the Celtics took a step back with the off season additions. But that doesn't mean I don't think they can contend. On the contrary I still think they are the team to beat. I just so happen to feel they would have been tougher to defeat if Danny went about his business differently.

Why is that so hard for people to understand? We can be positive about this team but not like the players Danny gathered on the bench to help the team defend the title. We are not being naysayers or negative. We are just looking at the off season as objectively as we can.

  (Amost) everyone considers their own opinion to be objective. But I don't understand criticizing Ainge so much for the roster he's created and then turning around and saying you think we're still the best team in the league. Especially people who weren't part of the "we're doomed without Posey" crowd.

  I personally agree that we would be a better team this coming year with Posey than we will be without him. I don't think I've ever stated or implied anything else. But I still think Danny was right to not sign Posey as he was IMO less irreplaceable than some people think.

  I think that, with our current roster, we can be as good as we were last year. So I consider the "we took a step backwards" comments to be negative.

  I disagree with the claims that many have made that the constitution of our bench will force Doc to play the big 3 big minutes during the season so they'll be spent when the playoffs start. I'd consider that opinion to be negative.

  Finally (and I'll have no problem apologizing if I'm wrong about this) I think that all the claims that Ainge miscalculated on the market for Posey or other free agents or that he let players that he wanted to sign slip away while he was waiting for Posey are made up out of whole cloth. Someone posted that because they were upset about the route that Ainge took this offseason, it gets repeated, and eventually it's taken as fact. Kind of like the way Wyc was going to let Theo expire because he was too cheap to trade Theo for a player with a big contract.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then because I just don't see it that way. It doesn't make me right or you right, it just means we think differently on the same thing.

BTW, I can feel that the Celtics have the best starting five in the league and that their chances of repeating rely almost entirely on the top 8 players they have and yet still not like what Danny has done this offseason without being negative about the team. I just feel that a better job could have been done.

[Roy Hobbs]

So you claim you thought we were championship contenders last year? What you don't think we are championship contenders this year? Is that your official prediction?

My "official prediction" has stayed pretty consistent, but here's one characterization of it from this thread:

We still have a good team and a good chance at repeating.  However, those chances weren't maximized.

nick pretty much summed up my feelings (TP for him), so I won't go too much into it.  The Celts are certainly contenders this year, I simply think more could have been done to improve their chances.