Author Topic: Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"  (Read 35876 times)

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Re: Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"
« Reply #90 on: September 09, 2008, 04:35:00 PM »

Offline mkogav

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Lets not forget O Bryant will at least be no worse than Polard was.

I am struggling to figure out how anyone could be a worse player than Pollard was.

The only thing I can come up with is that he actually plays and contributes to a point where Danny immediately signs him to a six year extension.

The following game, OB plays 40 minutes, shoots 2-12, 0 rebounds, 6 TOs, and plays no D. At the final buzzer, OB walks to center court, pulls off his mask, and with a maniacal laugh reveals he is really Mark Blount!!!

Yeah, I think that would do it.

Mk

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Re: Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"
« Reply #91 on: September 09, 2008, 04:43:22 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Lets not forget O Bryant will at least be no worse than Polard was.

I am struggling to figure out how anyone could be a worse player than Pollard was.

The only thing I can come up with is that he actually plays and contributes to a point where Danny immediately signs him to a six year extension.

The following game, OB plays 40 minutes, shoots 2-12, 0 rebounds, 6 TOs, and plays no D. At the final buzzer, OB walks to center court, pulls off his mask, and with a maniacal laugh reveals he is really Mark Blount!!!

Yeah, I think that would do it.

Mk


found one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3019




Before you get upset, compare to

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=0664


Re: Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"
« Reply #92 on: September 09, 2008, 04:44:57 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Pollard, when healthy, knows how to play NBA level defense.  That's more than can be said about POB.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Portland CrotoNats:  2009 CB Draft Champions

Re: Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"
« Reply #93 on: September 09, 2008, 04:46:44 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Lets not forget O Bryant will at least be no worse than Polard was.

I am struggling to figure out how anyone could be a worse player than Pollard was.

The only thing I can come up with is that he actually plays and contributes to a point where Danny immediately signs him to a six year extension.

The following game, OB plays 40 minutes, shoots 2-12, 0 rebounds, 6 TOs, and plays no D. At the final buzzer, OB walks to center court, pulls off his mask, and with a maniacal laugh reveals he is really Mark Blount!!!

Yeah, I think that would do it.

Mk


found one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3019




Before you get upset, compare to

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=0664




p.s.  If he can put up half the numbers Blount does, the Celtics found a steal.

Re: Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"
« Reply #94 on: September 09, 2008, 04:50:49 PM »

Offline Birdbrain

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There isn't a single way that he doesn't at least replicate Pollard. 

I mean Pollard was hurt for the whole season. That's not opinion.
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Re: Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"
« Reply #95 on: September 09, 2008, 06:09:06 PM »

Offline youcanthandlethetruth113

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There are alot of question marks with our bench, however, it good go both ways.  Our bench good be either really bad or pretty good.  Tony Allen hopefully coming back healthy, POB could be a suprise same with the rookies, and I have no clue how Darius Miles is going be.


Was TA's health the problem last year?



When I watched, it was the mental part of the game he seem to most struggle with. 

Beautifully said wdleehi! Tony's conditioning/health was not an issue at all. He is and will forever be "Turnover Tony" to which I take full credit naming. Simply put he lacks good ball IQ. Hence why he makes such poor decisions. I'm talking specifically when he gets all jacked up and takes a stupid shot, or when tries to push the ball upcourt and fails to pass (this is usually when he dribbles the ball off his own foot and out of bounds - then gives that sarcastic smile/confused look). 
"Perk is not an alley-oop guy" - Tommy Heinson - Feb 27th 2008 vs. Cleveland

Re: Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"
« Reply #96 on: September 10, 2008, 12:11:16 AM »

Offline BballTim

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There are alot of question marks with our bench, however, it good go both ways.  Our bench good be either really bad or pretty good.  Tony Allen hopefully coming back healthy, POB could be a suprise same with the rookies, and I have no clue how Darius Miles is going be.


Was TA's health the problem last year?



When I watched, it was the mental part of the game he seem to most struggle with. 

Beautifully said wdleehi! Tony's conditioning/health was not an issue at all. He is and will forever be "Turnover Tony" to which I take full credit naming. Simply put he lacks good ball IQ. Hence why he makes such poor decisions. I'm talking specifically when he gets all jacked up and takes a stupid shot, or when tries to push the ball upcourt and fails to pass (this is usually when he dribbles the ball off his own foot and out of bounds - then gives that sarcastic smile/confused look). 

  Of course Tony's health/conditioning was an issue last year. I think early last summer they expected him back in December or so. He beat the estimate by a month or two. And nobody coming back from a major knee injury comes back at full speed right away. Even his turnovers per 48 dropped by about 30% from the first 3 months of the season to the last 3 months.

  Tony makes a lot of turnovers, but that's not the only stat you should judge him by. For starters he forces a lot of turnovers so he cost us a net of about 1 turnover every 3 games he played last year. It also turns out that he outrebounded his opponent by a larger margin than his turnover deficit so we really lost very few net posessions if any when Tony played last year.

  Something more important than his turnovers is his defense. Check out this page:

 http://www.82games.com/ROLRTG8.HTM

  It looks like the cutoff for minutes on that page is about 35% so Tony just makes it. But there are 200+ names on that page. If you sort by opponent's PER you'll see that Tony allowed the lowest PER against of any of those players last year. You'll also notice that, while Allen had a negative net on court/off court (meaning that we outscored teams by a larger margin with Tony on the bench than with Tony in the game) we still outscored other teams by a significant margin with Tony in the game. There are only 23 players there where their team outscored their opponent by a wider margin than we did when Tony played.

  I'm not saying Tony's not turnover prone or that he's a superstar. But he's clearly an adequate sub for us. And unless he has another injury this year he'll start the season much healthier than he did last year. You can't judge his game on the number of times he dribble the ball off his foot.

Re: Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"
« Reply #97 on: September 10, 2008, 02:51:51 AM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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Pollard, when healthy, knows how to play NBA level defense.  That's more than can be said about POB.

That is opinion at best. However what is fact is that Pollard has not been healthy much at all. Meanwhile Bradley HAS not been injured. And that, is much more than can be said about Pollard.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity...

Re: Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"
« Reply #98 on: September 10, 2008, 02:53:24 AM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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House and Sam were called upon, and bailed us out at various times when Rondo slumped very badly in the playoffs.   It was difficult for the two vets to be consistent with spotty minutes.

Doc stubbornly insisted on Rondo playing major minutes even though he didn’t deserve it.  That is one of the reasons we didn’t sweep anybody in the playoffs, and nearly lost a couple of series. 

I don’t understand the infatuation with Rondo, but that’s the way it is here in Celtic land.  The bottom line is that our point guard situation is still a weakness going into this year.

Posey played three positions, was our 4th best player, was a clutch 3 point shooter, took charges, and he personified Ubuntu.   In the playoffs, PJ was an invaluable defender.    You can downplay these things but without those two guys, we would not have made in to the finals.

We are younger and more athletic but talent wise, pretty much the only difference between the ’08-‘09 Celtics and the ’06-’07 Celtics is Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett.


Great...here comes the Professor back again to give Rondo a "Q" for the upcoming year.   ::)
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity...

Re: Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"
« Reply #99 on: September 10, 2008, 02:59:17 AM »

Offline jay_jay54

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Pollard, when healthy, knows how to play NBA level defense.  That's more than can be said about POB.

That is opinion at best. However what is fact is that Pollard has not been healthy much at all. Meanwhile Bradley HAS not been injured. And that, is much more than can be said about Pollard.
Pollard has seen his best years.He turned out to be a waste of time/money.I hope he is history.

Re: Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"
« Reply #100 on: September 10, 2008, 10:27:56 AM »

Offline Sweet17

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Meh. I don't think Hobbs or Rosen or the other naysayers were on board last year with our bench. So the fact that they don't like this years model isn't exactly the end of the world. ALOT of people didn't like Posey - all he can do is shoot 3s and he is an ****... is what I heard. Now of course they all love him. Now of course he is a "tough defender" who hits clutch 3s.

Posey is the main loss. But much like the preseason appraisals of Posey last year - and House of course (OMG He can't play PG the C's are doomed). Some of our bench play is REALLY being underatted.

1) Darius Miles healthy is a GOOD player. He is an UPGRADE from Posey. His defense is excellent with his long arms and athletic ability. His scoring around the hoop is great and compared to Posey he is an elite shot creator. Posey just shocked you when he actually drove the ball that's how bad he was at it. Did I mention he can fill the wing like nobodies business. In addition he isn't a half bad passer.
Is he the same as Posey? No. Is he healthy enough so that the old Miles will reappear? Who knows.. But Miles is not nearly as bad a player as some columnists think.

2) Tony Allen is ANOTHER - greatly unloved player. This is probably the real reason for the negative vibe. TA though when right is again a very nice player. He is a stellar defender - in that he gets a ton of steals and that leads to easy baskets for the opponent. Yes he can't shut down the best two guards one on one but that's an unreasonable expectation. He is also a good shot creator - something that you can't say for Posey.

3) POB. Big, Tall, very athletic and he has some basketball skill. He will only be asked to play MAYBE 10 minutes a game. I think the C's can motivate him enough so he can help. Pollard the guy we had to fill his role was a complete bust. Did I mention POB is a certifably good shot blocker?

Basically I am reminded of BB of the Pats. All the "doubters" out there forget their own dismal record in talent appraisal - and forget Danny's superior record. The bench was our one great weakness last year remember?! I'd say the C's have some big question marks but they can also come out smelling like roses.

You have to take some risks if you want to win a championship. If you just play it 100% safe your not going to be able to get enough talent for dollar spent. I approve of Danny's plan. Danny decided that he wanted a more athletic team that could create for themselves better. We lost some veteran smart players in Posey and PJ BRown (though he might come back).

You can't say for certain his change won't really pay off at this point. Any claims to the contrary are just negative nonsense.. The big 3 are intact and if anything they will be working with MORE talent this year and not less. We could win back to back - I believe it.

Pete

Re: Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"
« Reply #101 on: September 10, 2008, 10:37:31 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Meh. I don't think Hobbs or Rosen or the other naysayers were on board last year with our bench.

Pete, if you're going to troll my posts, at least back it up.  Where or when did I say I didn't like last year's bench?  Once we got Posey, I -- like a lot of others -- thought the team was a legitimate championship contender. 

I'm sure you're capable of making your point without lying outright.

Quote
[Darius Miles'] defense is excellent with his long arms and athletic ability.

What is this assessment based upon?  From my own observation, Miles' on-the-ball defense was pretty poor.  That seems to be backed up by just about every analysis I read online (just google "Darius Miles defense").  Miles' defense is seen as a weakness, not as a positive; he certainly doesn't compare as a defender to Posey.

« Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 10:52:05 AM by Roy Hobbs »

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Re: Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"
« Reply #102 on: September 10, 2008, 10:52:17 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Meh. I don't think Hobbs or Rosen or the other naysayers were on board last year with our bench.

Pete, if you're going to troll my posts, at least back it up.  Where or when did I say I didn't like last year's bench?  Once we got Posey, I -- like a lot of others -- thought the team was a legitimate championship contender. 

I'm sure you're capable of making your point without lying outright.

I was asking for Posey before the Celtics got him last year.  I was happy when he was added to the bench.


I wanted to see more vet early last year.  I was happy to see both PJ and Cassell added. 






I am not happy with the bench as it is right now.


But like last year, I expect the bench to be upgraded before the playoffs. 

Re: Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"
« Reply #103 on: September 10, 2008, 11:18:16 AM »

Offline mkogav

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Lets not forget O Bryant will at least be no worse than Polard was.

I am struggling to figure out how anyone could be a worse player than Pollard was.

The only thing I can come up with is that he actually plays and contributes to a point where Danny immediately signs him to a six year extension.

The following game, OB plays 40 minutes, shoots 2-12, 0 rebounds, 6 TOs, and plays no D. At the final buzzer, OB walks to center court, pulls off his mask, and with a maniacal laugh reveals he is really Mark Blount!!!

Yeah, I think that would do it.

Mk


found one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3019




Before you get upset, compare to

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=0664



Hmmmm... interesting that one of these two players has a contract and the other one doesn't.

Mk

Sickness, insanity and death were the angels that surrounded my cradle and they have followed me throughout my life - Edvard Munch


DKC Knicks

Re: Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"
« Reply #104 on: September 10, 2008, 11:20:09 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Lets not forget O Bryant will at least be no worse than Polard was.

I am struggling to figure out how anyone could be a worse player than Pollard was.

The only thing I can come up with is that he actually plays and contributes to a point where Danny immediately signs him to a six year extension.

The following game, OB plays 40 minutes, shoots 2-12, 0 rebounds, 6 TOs, and plays no D. At the final buzzer, OB walks to center court, pulls off his mask, and with a maniacal laugh reveals he is really Mark Blount!!!

Yeah, I think that would do it.

Mk


found one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3019




Before you get upset, compare to

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=0664



Hmmmm... interesting that one of these two players has a contract and the other one doesn't.

Mk


Why?