Charlie Rosen: "If the Celtics can't repeat, it's their own fault"

[brownbagger]

JR GIDDENS > SAM CASSEL (any potential is better then straight up ball hog)

POB > POLLARD

MILES > PJ BROWN


Someone said we lost our 2 best bench players??? We still have House.


This off-season was not bad, and is being far blown out of proportion.

You can't say any of those things.  Cassell did contribute to some playoff games.

PJ was the backup C and first big man off the bench


These new guys have done nothing. 


And you ignored Posey. 

Thats right Cassell did bring KG some gatorade when he was exhausted.

[wdleehi]

JR GIDDENS > SAM CASSEL (any potential is better then straight up ball hog)

POB > POLLARD

MILES > PJ BROWN


Someone said we lost our 2 best bench players??? We still have House.


This off-season was not bad, and is being far blown out of proportion.

You can't say any of those things.  Cassell did contribute to some playoff games.

PJ was the backup C and first big man off the bench


These new guys have done nothing. 


And you ignored Posey. 

Thats right Cassell did bring KG some gatorade when he was exhausted.

I guess Cassell didn't drop 13 in 18 minutes in a 4 point win in game 1 against Cleveland. 






He wasn't good, but he had his moments that helped the Celtics win the title.  Take that performance out, Celtics might have lost game one, and might have lost the series. 

[brownbagger]

JR GIDDENS > SAM CASSEL (any potential is better then straight up ball hog)

POB > POLLARD

MILES > PJ BROWN


Someone said we lost our 2 best bench players??? We still have House.


This off-season was not bad, and is being far blown out of proportion.

You can't say any of those things.  Cassell did contribute to some playoff games.

PJ was the backup C and first big man off the bench


These new guys have done nothing. 


And you ignored Posey. 

Thats right Cassell did bring KG some gatorade when he was exhausted.

I guess Cassell didn't drop 13 in 18 minutes in a 4 point win in game 1 against Cleveland. 






He wasn't good, but he had his moments that helped the Celtics win the title.  Take that performance out, Celtics might have lost game one, and might have lost the series. 

Key words are "might and might have lost game 1.Im sure the intent was for Sam to produce way more

than he did.I doubt if any of his contribution made aserious impact or  difference in the Cavs series.Thats

just might of beens and maybes.His overall contributions were far less than he or anyone hope for.I will


remember his motivation to the Big 3 more than his play,almost like ML in his last days waving the towel.
 

[jdub1660]

I admit to being skeptical on the offseason moves, b/c we didn't add any big names. We are obviously better at the start of this season than the start of last(but that's just obvious.) The more you look at who we lost, the more it makes sense that we've had a successful summer. You can only expect players to come back a 2nd year and do the same or better than what they accomplished the year before (Powe, BBD, Rondo, Perk) . If Tony Allen could come back and be anywhere near as good as he was 2 years ago when he was healthy, then we'll be satisfied there. House does what he does everywhere he goes, and I'll be one to admit that he was better for Boston in the playoffs than he was for Phoenix in there run 2 years ago. House has learned his role and fits our system perfectly. The other offseason addition is Bill Walker and Giddens. We all assumes Giddens to be player with more minutes, but once Walker recovers, we might learn that he was a steal(as he was expected to be a top ten draft pick before his surgery) We lost Sam( I liked him but oh well) PJ was good (who by the way blocked Kobe as Bryant tried to "score at will", but can be replaced by any big that doesn't foul out in a quarter. Posey shot ONLY 3's, so his ball touches can be replaced with House, and Miles can take his minutes of defense. Posey is my only true loss, but I'd rather lose him than give him 1/4 of our payroll for the next few years.

[nickagneta]

First off I want to discuss this misconception so many have about a young player coming back and being even better than they were the year before. Apparently none of you have ever heard the expression "the sophomore jinx". That's when a player in their second year who had success as a rookie takes a step back and plays worse the next year.

Oh, you have heard of it. I thought you might have.

There's a reason for the expression and it's because it is a very common phenomenon. It happens all the time. And not to just 2nd year players. Sometimes players that have a good couple of years then have a bad one or even a couple of bad years before rebounding back strong.

Remember Al Jefferson's second year. Not quite a thing of beauty. Remember the roller coaster that was Chauncey Billups his first few years. Look how promising Marcus Williams was thought of after his first year in Jersey. He came back with an awful year last year.

I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer here but let's not jump to what ifs about some older players but all but guarantee that our younger players will come back better simply because they are a year older. It doesn't work that way with young guys all the time. 5+ year veterans are always more consistent.

Also, Sam Cassell sucked in his time as a Celtic. But he was brought in to win playoff games and he was instrumental in the outcome of five victories early on in Atlanta and Cleveland.

His first two games versus Atlanta he was one of the only players off the bench that could put the ball in the hoop and was needed desperately in both games when Rondo went sour fast.

Game 1 Cleveland he scored 13 huge points to help win that game. Without Sam coming in in the first quarter of Game 2 of that series and hitting some shots and steadying the troops and running the offense, the Celtics get blown away early. He helped turn a rout into a lopsided affair in the other direction when that game was looking to be getting out of hand early.

Sam was pretty awful to down right pathetic after that but he helped this team win games they had to win in two seven game series.

Don't let your memory fail you simply because you want to make a point. Sam sucked but he did win and was absolutely necessary for us to win 4-5 games early on in the playoffs. Without him there was no Detroit and LA.

[billysan]

People are really fooling themselves about Darius Miles.

I think it is fairly accurate to even say that Darius Miles may not make the team. He still needs to be considered a long shot to even play doesnt he? Isnt it true that he is on a non guaranteed contract? We could all be arguing about nothing if he is cut. 

I look for a player or two to "fall through the cracks"  during preseason as teams finish up their rosters. I suspect Danny will have his eyes open for an upgrade over Miles or even Pruitt.

[bucknersrevenge]

First off I want to discuss this misconception so many have about a young player coming back and being even better than they were the year before. Apparently none of you have ever heard the expression "the sophomore jinx". That's when a player in their second year who had success as a rookie takes a step back and plays worse the next year.

Oh, you have heard of it. I thought you might have.

There's a reason for the expression and it's because it is a very common phenomenon. It happens all the time. And not to just 2nd year players. Sometimes players that have a good couple of years then have a bad one or even a couple of bad years before rebounding back strong.

Remember Al Jefferson's second year. Not quite a thing of beauty. Remember the roller coaster that was Chauncey Billups his first few years. Look how promising Marcus Williams was thought of after his first year in Jersey. He came back with an awful year last year.

I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer here but let's not jump to what ifs about some older players but all but guarantee that our younger players will come back better simply because they are a year older. It doesn't work that way with young guys all the time. 5+ year veterans are always more consistent.

Also, Sam Cassell sucked in his time as a Celtic. But he was brought in to win playoff games and he was instrumental in the outcome of five victories early on in Atlanta and Cleveland.

His first two games versus Atlanta he was one of the only players off the bench that could put the ball in the hoop and was needed desperately in both games when Rondo went sour fast.

Game 1 Cleveland he scored 13 huge points to help win that game. Without Sam coming in in the first quarter of Game 2 of that series and hitting some shots and steadying the troops and running the offense, the Celtics get blown away early. He helped turn a rout into a lopsided affair in the other direction when that game was looking to be getting out of hand early.

Sam was pretty awful to down right pathetic after that but he helped this team win games they had to win in two seven game series.

Don't let your memory fail you simply because you want to make a point. Sam sucked but he did win and was absolutely necessary for us to win 4-5 games early on in the playoffs. Without him there was no Detroit and LA.

Call me unreasonable or whatever. I don't care. I wouldn't have Cassell back if he paid US to play. The giant fork protruding out of his back was all to visible last year. We have better options this year than a decaying gunner who put it up everytime he crossed halfcourt. Don't get me wrong I was thankful those terrible shots went in but that's not how we play.

I also think the "miscalculation" assertion is absolutely ridiculous. What people keep wanting claim as a miscalculation is merely Ainge applying value and to players and not backing down. It's not that Ainge didn't think someone would pay Posey more, Ainge just didn't CARE. All he knew is that he wasn't gonna do it. Let that be someone else's problem. And I'm fine with it. I'd rather an infusion of young talent to groom.

I will certainly acknowledge the assertion that our team would be better with Posey instead of Miles included in our 15. I just it's more of an unessential point in and of itself if you don't consider the consequences. Kinda like "bills would be easier to pay if I had more money in the bank." Sure they would. And then?? I don't so I do what I gotta do.

[brownbagger]

First off I want to discuss this misconception so many have about a young player coming back and being even better than they were the year before. Apparently none of you have ever heard the expression "the sophomore jinx". That's when a player in their second year who had success as a rookie takes a step back and plays worse the next year.

Oh, you have heard of it. I thought you might have.

There's a reason for the expression and it's because it is a very common phenomenon. It happens all the time. And not to just 2nd year players. Sometimes players that have a good couple of years then have a bad one or even a couple of bad years before rebounding back strong.

Remember Al Jefferson's second year. Not quite a thing of beauty. Remember the roller coaster that was Chauncey Billups his first few years. Look how promising Marcus Williams was thought of after his first year in Jersey. He came back with an awful year last year.

I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer here but let's not jump to what ifs about some older players but all but guarantee that our younger players will come back better simply because they are a year older. It doesn't work that way with young guys all the time. 5+ year veterans are always more consistent.

Also, Sam Cassell sucked in his time as a Celtic. But he was brought in to win playoff games and he was instrumental in the outcome of five victories early on in Atlanta and Cleveland.

His first two games versus Atlanta he was one of the only players off the bench that could put the ball in the hoop and was needed desperately in both games when Rondo went sour fast.

Game 1 Cleveland he scored 13 huge points to help win that game. Without Sam coming in in the first quarter of Game 2 of that series and hitting some shots and steadying the troops and running the offense, the Celtics get blown away early. He helped turn a rout into a lopsided affair in the other direction when that game was looking to be getting out of hand early.

Sam was pretty awful to down right pathetic after that but he helped this team win games they had to win in two seven game series.

Don't let your memory fail you simply because you want to make a point. Sam sucked but he did win and was absolutely necessary for us to win 4-5 games early on in the playoffs. Without him there was no Detroit and LA.

Call me unreasonable or whatever. I don't care. I wouldn't have Cassell back if he paid US to play. The giant fork protruding out of his back was all to visible last year. We have better options this year than a decaying gunner who put it up everytime he crossed halfcourt. Don't get me wrong I was thankful those terrible shots went in but that's not how we play.

I also think the "miscalculation" assertion is absolutely ridiculous. What people keep wanting claim as a miscalculation is merely Ainge applying value and to players and not backing down. It's not that Ainge didn't think someone would pay Posey more, Ainge just didn't CARE. All he knew is that he wasn't gonna do it. Let that be someone else's problem. And I'm fine with it. I'd rather an infusion of young talent to groom.

I will certainly acknowledge the assertion that our team would be better with Posey instead of Miles included in our 15. I just it's more of an unessential point in and of itself if you don't consider the consequences. Kinda like "bills would be easier to pay if I had more money in the bank." Sure they would. And then?? I don't so I do what I gotta do.

You hit it on the nail.I see  a lot of flipflopping when it comes to Sam .I guess it depends on

who they are backing up in a post.I dont care what  contributions he made in a few  games,he didn't make the

difference to me enough to warrant bringing back or remembering his play for to long.I have more bad memories

than good ones of his play during his short stay with the team.

[BballTim]

First off I want to discuss this misconception so many have about a young player coming back and being even better than they were the year before. Apparently none of you have ever heard the expression "the sophomore jinx". That's when a player in their second year who had success as a rookie takes a step back and plays worse the next year.

Oh, you have heard of it. I thought you might have.

There's a reason for the expression and it's because it is a very common phenomenon. It happens all the time. And not to just 2nd year players. Sometimes players that have a good couple of years then have a bad one or even a couple of bad years before rebounding back strong.

Remember Al Jefferson's second year. Not quite a thing of beauty. Remember the roller coaster that was Chauncey Billups his first few years. Look how promising Marcus Williams was thought of after his first year in Jersey. He came back with an awful year last year.

I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer here but let's not jump to what ifs about some older players but all but guarantee that our younger players will come back better simply because they are a year older. It doesn't work that way with young guys all the time. 5+ year veterans are always more consistent.

Also, Sam Cassell sucked in his time as a Celtic. But he was brought in to win playoff games and he was instrumental in the outcome of five victories early on in Atlanta and Cleveland.

His first two games versus Atlanta he was one of the only players off the bench that could put the ball in the hoop and was needed desperately in both games when Rondo went sour fast.

Game 1 Cleveland he scored 13 huge points to help win that game. Without Sam coming in in the first quarter of Game 2 of that series and hitting some shots and steadying the troops and running the offense, the Celtics get blown away early. He helped turn a rout into a lopsided affair in the other direction when that game was looking to be getting out of hand early.

Sam was pretty awful to down right pathetic after that but he helped this team win games they had to win in two seven game series.

Don't let your memory fail you simply because you want to make a point. Sam sucked but he did win and was absolutely necessary for us to win 4-5 games early on in the playoffs. Without him there was no Detroit and LA.

  Your memory is pretty selective as well. Didn't Sam play in most of our losses to Atl and Clev? I seem to recall his playing pretty poorly in those games. Maybe if he skips the playoffs altogether we still win, we just win other games.

  And Al Jefferson's second season was marred by injury. Being a 5 year vet doesn't make you immune to that.

[nickagneta]

Wow.

Simply wow.

I called Cassell awful and pathetic. I said his play here sucked. And somehow people jump to the conclusion that I have a selective memory and that I would want Sam back.

I wouldn't take Sam back if he paid us KG's salary.

All I was trying to say is that as bad as he was I, a person who wouldn't ever want anything to do with Cassell again can admit truthfully that he was important and instrumental in winning some early playoff games.

And as for Al's second season, yes, he was injured towards the last third of the year but even before that, he had taken a major step back but he, self admittedly, took his conditioning in the off season to lightly and wasn't physically prepared for the rigors of an NBA season.

I can go back and research all the quotes you want to prove my point. Al wasn't prepared for that season and he admits it and he was pretty bad before any injury that hindered him occurred.

[CoachBo]

Overall, the Sam experiment had muted results. But to deny that the guy had games in the post-season where he helped us is selective memory. Letting him walk isn't one of the many downsides of the off-season, though.

As for Miles, Hobbs is right. The guy may very well not make the club.

[JSD]

Pundits and CBers "come on now"...

The Celtics are and will be in the mix next year and for the foreseeable future because of the moves Ainge has made this off-season.

Next Summer Ainge will have the assets and expiring contracts to bring in a "torch receiving" 4th star.


I love what Ainge has done this offseason.

[bucknersrevenge]

Overall, the Sam experiment had muted results. But to deny that the guy had games in the post-season where he helped us is selective memory. Letting him walk isn't one of the many downsides of the off-season, though.

As for Miles, Hobbs is right. The guy may very well not make the club.

I don't think anybody is saying Sam didn't have a few games where he hit some shots. But considering he shot 24% in the Cleveland series and followed that up with 23% against Detroit the vast majority of the time he clearly hurt us because he certainly didn't pass the ball any. Eddie would've played better and we might not have gone to 7 games.

As for Miles, IMO who cares if he doesn't make the club. We're just taking a flyer.

[BballTim]

Wow.

Simply wow.

I called Cassell awful and pathetic. I said his play here sucked. And somehow people jump to the conclusion that I have a selective memory and that I would want Sam back.

I wouldn't take Sam back if he paid us KG's salary.

All I was trying to say is that as bad as he was I, a person who wouldn't ever want anything to do with Cassell again can admit truthfully that he was important and instrumental in winning some early playoff games.

  I didn't say anything about you wanting Sam back. I didn't say that he wasn't instrumental in a few playoff games. What I said was that you're being selective in your assessment. Sam also played poorly in some of our losses. If you're going to claim that we might not have won some games without Sam you have to also admit that we might not have lost some games if Sam didn't play.

And as for Al's second season, yes, he was injured towards the last third of the year but even before that, he had taken a major step back but he, self admittedly, took his conditioning in the off season to lightly and wasn't physically prepared for the rigors of an NBA season.

I can go back and research all the quotes you want to prove my point. Al wasn't prepared for that season and he admits it and he was pretty bad before any injury that hindered him occurred.

  You can find all the quotes you want, but it's not the case that Al played worse in his 2nd year than his first before his injury. He was really playing well when the injury happened. You could say that he didn't make a huge leap (but I'd argue that Doc's rotations prevented that) but he didn't regress.

[brownbagger]

First off I want to discuss this misconception so many have about a young player coming back and being even better than they were the year before. Apparently none of you have ever heard the expression "the sophomore jinx". That's when a player in their second year who had success as a rookie takes a step back and plays worse the next year.

Oh, you have heard of it. I thought you might have.

There's a reason for the expression and it's because it is a very common phenomenon. It happens all the time. And not to just 2nd year players. Sometimes players that have a good couple of years then have a bad one or even a couple of bad years before rebounding back strong.

Remember Al Jefferson's second year. Not quite a thing of beauty. Remember the roller coaster that was Chauncey Billups his first few years. Look how promising Marcus Williams was thought of after his first year in Jersey. He came back with an awful year last year.

I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer here but let's not jump to what ifs about some older players but all but guarantee that our younger players will come back better simply because they are a year older. It doesn't work that way with young guys all the time. 5+ year veterans are always more consistent.

Also, Sam Cassell sucked in his time as a Celtic. But he was brought in to win playoff games and he was instrumental in the outcome of five victories early on in Atlanta and Cleveland.

His first two games versus Atlanta he was one of the only players off the bench that could put the ball in the hoop and was needed desperately in both games when Rondo went sour fast.

Game 1 Cleveland he scored 13 huge points to help win that game. Without Sam coming in in the first quarter of Game 2 of that series and hitting some shots and steadying the troops and running the offense, the Celtics get blown away early. He helped turn a rout into a lopsided affair in the other direction when that game was looking to be getting out of hand early.

Sam was pretty awful to down right pathetic after that but he helped this team win games they had to win in two seven game series.

Don't let your memory fail you simply because you want to make a point. Sam sucked but he did win and was absolutely necessary for us to win 4-5 games early on in the playoffs. Without him there was no Detroit and LA.

  Your memory is pretty selective as well. Didn't Sam play in most of our losses to Atl and Clev? I seem to recall his playing pretty poorly in those games. Maybe if he skips the playoffs altogether we still win, we just win other games.

  And Al Jefferson's second season was marred by injury. Being a 5 year vet doesn't make you immune to that.

I never heard any fans yelling Sam,Sam,Sam but i heard from the crowd at times Eddie,Eddie.Almost beg

ing Doc to put Eddie in to "right the ship"when Sam was doing more screwing up than contributing in a good way

please,give me a break.I find when some try to tagteam one poster they will go to no lengths to do so.Face it

dudes Sam had more sucky playing time than positive in the time he was with the team.Im sure we could have

won the championship without his contribution.We probably lost a few games because of his shot happy butt.