Author Topic: If One Must Go...Powe Over Big Baby  (Read 11079 times)

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Re: If One Must Go...Powe Over Big Baby
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2008, 09:02:57 PM »

Offline jdub1660

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actually, in a very tiny correction to the above, neither of them look to be very good passers so far.

powe posted assist averages of 0.2 and 0.3 his first two years.

davis put up an average of 0.4 assists his first year.

this is strictly recollection and anectodal, but i recall powe mostly as getting the ball down low and working like heck to get off a shot. i dont recall him passing much to other players who then scored. maybe not totally a black hole, but he doesnt seem to be good creating scoring opportunities for teammates so far.

i know this is not his primary job, and he has only 2 seasons. but assist averages of 0.2 and 0.3 aint nothing to write home about.

davis, if my poor memory serves correctly, plays farther away from the rim then power, which one could argue would increase the number of assists. but the stats still dont support that idea.

still, this is a small point for comparing two backup PF i guess.

How could either one of them get any assists out there on the floor?! They were playing with Cassell. IF Sam passes you the ball you know you better shoot it immediately. It ISN'T coming back to you again!

Don't hate on Sam. I remember reading an interview of his talking about how Doc Rivers actually wanted him to shoot like that b/c usually when Cassell was on the floor, there we no shooters around him. No one seems to notice that House played almost that exact same role. Shoot first then pass, if you pass, run to an open spot for the ball back to shoot.

Hating on Sam is very easy. He was a huge bust signing last year. He did absolutely nothing but take House's minutes away. House was also NOT a shoot first player. He always looked to move the ball and go set a pick before sitting on the three point line. Then if someone drove and needed to dish he was there. Sam was shoot first, second, and third. If the team was so enamored with the play of Sam he would be on the squad right now. They realize as well that Sam did not fit into our team like they had hoped. Best non-signing of the off season.

In directing it back to the topic, I guarantee that if he had dropped the ball into either one of these guys in the post, especially Powe, that he would have had 2-3 more assists a game and a lot more happy teammates and fans. Both players are good options on the block.   

Sam played his role perfectly, and did the best he could at the time he was brought in. House's numbers will look better as well as his chemistry b/c he signed before they played 82 games. The PG position is arguably the hardest position to just pick up and run with. Just an example, look at Jason Kidd. Some say he's still the best PG in the league, or at least top 3, which I'd agree. BUT, even with the right pieces around him, he still couldn't produce great numbers in Dallas so late. Don't get me wrong, Cassell and Kidd aren't nearly the same in skill level, as Sam is a shoot first PG, and Kidd will pass without a shot for games on in, but they both were put in similar situations. Kidd, take on the starting PG and take us to the finals. Cassell, take on the backup PG, help Rondo and our team make it deep into the playoffs. The other big key to seeing Cassell not "wow" everyone, not only did he play the point, but he's coming off the bench. Compare his numbers to any other backup PG and see which player made a difference. As for him not coming back, 2 things. The season hasn't started yet, and for his age he could be signed late December or January AND he helped start the new Dynasty by getting us number 17. He made a point of wanting to get into coaching sometime, most likely with Denver and Coach Karl. Don't be surprised to see our eldest Celts back on the roster(PJ and Sam)
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Re: If One Must Go...Powe Over Big Baby
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2008, 09:21:55 PM »

Offline billysan

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...I don't know where this "Powe isn't athletic" stuff keeps coming from--do you not remember how many times he exploded off the ground and packed it over 1 or 2 defenders?

No matter how much weight Davis loses, he's never going to have more lift than Powe-Leon's got plenty of power and explosiveness...
As long as his knees hold up he has some power and explosiveness.

I do remember Leon Powe overpowering defenders in the post and was delighted to see it.

I dont think Leon is 'not athletic' as you put it. I do believe Glen Davis is more athletic than Leon Powe. I think Davis is faster up and down the floor than Leon at this point and will be even more so if he loses 20-30 more pounds. Neither is a great leaper and although effective second unit post players, they rely mostly on strength and positioning. 8)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 10:28:39 PM by billysan »
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Re: If One Must Go...Powe Over Big Baby
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2008, 09:38:47 PM »

Offline billysan

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I am not confident BBD can stick in the league. The idea that we should keep him at let Powe go is ridiculous. Not only is Powe better statistically - not to mention far more athletic ot boot.. He has the kind of self-discipline it takes to grow in this league.

Let's face facts players who come in the league with a weight problem have a long history of disaster. For every Perkins there are a half-dozen Tractor Trailers and Big Country Reeves..
Pete
This is an excellent point. The odds are certainly against Glenn Davis having a long term career 'if' he doesnt get his weight under control. One difference since Traylor and Reeves were in the league is how much more emphasis is placed on diet and nutrition along with conditioning. Davis problem is that he probably had conditionig help available in college as well and obviously did not take advantage of it. You can lead a horse to water...... 

The thing is, even with the excess weight Davis is in the NBA for now. That speaks to how much talent he does possess. He is not unathletic IMO and is in fact more athletic than many other (smaller build) bigmen.

I think Davis is more talented than Leon Powe, but I would rather keep Leon. I believe Powe will be more loyal and reasonably priced in the long run. I think that if/when Davis loses a few pounds and has a big year, he will want a lot more money than he is worth. 8)
"First fix their hearts" -Eizo Shimabuku

Re: If One Must Go...Powe Over Big Baby
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2008, 09:56:25 PM »

Offline Andy Jick

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here's an idea...

let's just get rid of both powe and big baby for another much needed wing player and let scalabrine play heavy minutes at the backup PF position... ::)
"It was easier to know it than to explain why I know it."

Re: If One Must Go...Powe Over Big Baby
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2008, 10:51:18 PM »

Offline Raygus

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here's an idea...

let's just get rid of both powe and big baby for another much needed wing player and let scalabrine play heavy minutes at the backup PF position... ::)

that's a terrible idea.

i'd rather read people say the same thing over and over again than silly sarcasm.

i like powe - he's had to put in the work to be where he is (growing up like he did / the knees) and clearly knows that if he's going to stick, he's gotta work. baby hasn't shown that he has the work ethic to do what he needs to do to stay in the league - lose the weight. he's clearly got the talent (no one questions that), but does he have the ability to do what he needs to do?

if he hasn't proven he can lose the weight and keep it off by the end of the year, i say cut him loose and sign powe. if he can, sign them both.

this isn't a question of who's better than who. its a question of who has the ability to do what they need to do to stay in the league. Leon Powe does. We don't know about baby (yet).

Re: If One Must Go...Powe Over Big Baby
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2008, 11:58:16 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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As of right now, Powe is both the better and more consistent player.  If I *had* to pick one, it would be him; as much as BBD may have potential, the simple fact is that most players never reach that potential.  As the saying goes, a bird in the hand...

Of course, I'm not in favor of getting rid of either one of them at the moment.


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Re: If One Must Go...Powe Over Big Baby
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2008, 07:02:44 AM »

Offline Sweet17

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Quote
The thing is, even with the excess weight Davis is in the NBA for now. That speaks to how much talent he does possess. He is not unathletic IMO and is in fact more athletic than many other (smaller build) bigmen.

I don't agree - but I don't think we are going to find out either. I think BBD's weight will ebb and flow some but on balance he will end up very overweight assuming he sticks around. I was pretty unimpressed with Davis near the end. His much ballyhooed passing was non-existent and his outside shooting was woeful. It's not like he can finish well around the hoop either. What would be an easy dunk for Powe is a tough trick layup for Davis..

So what exactly does he give you? SOME rebounding..his ability to throw his weight around and the ability to excite the crowd with his "OMG look what that fat guy can do" antics.. That's not enough to keep me interested. Give me the more convential and boring Powe any day of the week. He gets to the line. He can finish around the hoop. He can rebound. Sure he is limited but its SOMETHING a head coach can go to.

Scalabrine can probably give you more then Davis in most matchups...outside of the 5. Personally I am hoping POB comes on (though that's another long shot) so we can relegate Davis to the deep bench.

Pete

 

Re: If One Must Go...Powe Over Big Baby
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2008, 08:14:18 AM »

Offline Andy Jick

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if message boards existed in the 1980's, someone here would have started a thread entitled, "who should we keep: bird or mchale?"  and it would have been THE dumbest argument ever.

i don't understand the concept of even debating this out, but then again, i'm not always the sharpest knife in the drawer...

i suppose this is the reason why keyboards were invented.
"It was easier to know it than to explain why I know it."

Re: If One Must Go...Powe Over Big Baby
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2008, 10:55:40 AM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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if message boards existed in the 1980's, someone here would have started a thread entitled, "who should we keep: bird or mchale?"  and it would have been THE dumbest argument ever.

i don't understand the concept of even debating this out, but then again, i'm not always the sharpest knife in the drawer...

i suppose this is the reason why keyboards were invented.

You really didn't just compare Powe and BBD to Bird and McHale now did you?!

The fact that we are debating which BACKUP guy that should be kept since they both can't get minutes realistically is a lot different than 2 All Star players. You keep as many All Stars as you have no matter the position. You can't afford to do that usually with your bench.

Re: If One Must Go...Powe Over Big Baby
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2008, 12:02:42 PM »

Offline Sweet17

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^^^ Well they can probably both get minutes as we lost PJ Brown so BBD might see alot of time at center. But I don't really like that. Let's hope POB somehow manages to steal those minutes..

Pete