Champions League 2008-09 Thread

[cordobes]

... it was an arguable call (in my view, it was the right call).

How so?  He made contact with the ball.  UEFA general secretary David Taylor said that UEFA was "disappointed for Fletcher".   Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger said the red card was "very harsh", because Fletcher played the ball.  UEFA has said that it is potentially willing to depart from normal procedure to review the red card.

And yet...  you think it was the right call?  No bias there, at all.  This couldn't have anything to do with the fact that United eliminated your team, could it?

Sorry, not replying to insinuations and ad hominem attacks. I'll report his pots.

[celticmaestro]

Cordobes, I like you, but this United bashing has to stop.

What United bashing?!? Where did I bash United? I was talking about the Chelsea vs. Barça game...

Typical United fan.. 

Not just today but in general.

... it was an arguable call (in my view, it was the right call).

How so?  He made contact with the ball.  UEFA general secretary David Taylor said that UEFA was "disappointed for Fletcher".   Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger said the red card was "very harsh", because Fletcher played the ball.  UEFA has said that it is potentially willing to depart from normal procedure to review the red card.

And yet...  you think it was the right call?  No bias there, at all.  This couldn't have anything to do with the fact that United eliminated your team, could it?

Well put Roy.

[cordobes]

Hulk was denied a penalty in the 75th when he appeared to be tripped by Tevez before the United substitute converted Rooney’s clever pass to hand the home side an undeserved lead.

Number of Man United fans who will consider A SHAME their team getting way with a clear penalty (once again): 0

Oh, the hypocrisy...

[cordobes]

Cordobes, I like you, but this United bashing has to stop.

What United bashing?!? Where did I bash United? I was talking about the Chelsea vs. Barça game...

Typical United fan.. 

Not just today but in general.

When exactly? If you're going to accuse me of "bashing", I'd expect some evidence to support it. Otherwise, it's very unlike I'd expect from you.

[Roy Hobbs]

... it was an arguable call (in my view, it was the right call).

How so?  He made contact with the ball.  UEFA general secretary David Taylor said that UEFA was "disappointed for Fletcher".   Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger said the red card was "very harsh", because Fletcher played the ball.  UEFA has said that it is potentially willing to depart from normal procedure to review the red card.

And yet...  you think it was the right call?  No bias there, at all.  This couldn't have anything to do with the fact that United eliminated your team, could it?

Sorry, not replying to insinuations and ad hominem attacks. I'll report his pots.

You consider it an "attack" because somebody suggested that you may be biased?  Wow...  good thing you're not a mod, I guess.

I like how you side-stepped the issue, though.  The UEFA general secretary and the manager of the opposing club say the call was wrong, but we're to infer nothing from the fact that you think the referee was absolutely correct?  Uh huh.

[cordobes]

The UEFA general secretary and the manager of the opposing club say the call was wrong, but we're to infer nothing from the fact that you think the referee was absolutely correct?  Uh huh.

Yes, if I think a call against Manchester United was correct than I must be biased. Go figure...

And a UEFA general secretary intimidatind refs who make calls against United!? That's something new! Oh wait... Of course, the ref who officiated the Chelsea game, on the other hand...

This reminds me of your theory that Man Utd is "different" from Real and clubs like that because they play more players from their farm system and don't have such a big payroll... 

[ACF]

I'll never understand how people complain about the NBA officiating. This game tonight wasn't a football match; just a pure charade. Chelsea deserved to win, and the refs didn't allow Barcelona to be eliminated, just like they'd never allow ManUtd to be eliminated. And people complain about the Chelsea players complaining? They were robbed, raped and murdered all night long.

Well, remember who was at the end of
that red card? It wasn't an Arsenal player
and the decision was shaky, to say the least.

I think there are different ways to
complain. The Chelsea players were
simply just classless.

Which red card?

The sending off of Fletcher.

Very different issues. I mean, Manchester United was already qualified, it had no impact in the game whatsoever and it was an arguable call (in my view, it was the right call).

Chelsea, on the other hand, was robbed all game along - and the officiating had a decisive impact on the outcome of the game and on which team qualified for the final.

Fletcher is not playing in the Final.
I think that's sad. Whether one likes
United or not, it's still a shame.

Well, he commited a penalty and was ejected. The entire Chelsea squad won't be playing in the Final, in spite of deserving it, because Platini and his clique didn't allow it. Isn't that a shame?

Well, I sense the sarcasm oozing from
your choice of words  

[cordobes]

I'll never understand how people complain about the NBA officiating. This game tonight wasn't a football match; just a pure charade. Chelsea deserved to win, and the refs didn't allow Barcelona to be eliminated, just like they'd never allow ManUtd to be eliminated. And people complain about the Chelsea players complaining? They were robbed, raped and murdered all night long.

Well, remember who was at the end of
that red card? It wasn't an Arsenal player
and the decision was shaky, to say the least.

I think there are different ways to
complain. The Chelsea players were
simply just classless.

Which red card?

The sending off of Fletcher.

Very different issues. I mean, Manchester United was already qualified, it had no impact in the game whatsoever and it was an arguable call (in my view, it was the right call).

Chelsea, on the other hand, was robbed all game along - and the officiating had a decisive impact on the outcome of the game and on which team qualified for the final.

Fletcher is not playing in the Final.
I think that's sad. Whether one likes
United or not, it's still a shame.

Well, he commited a penalty and was ejected. The entire Chelsea squad won't be playing in the Final, in spite of deserving it, because Platini and his clique didn't allow it. Isn't that a shame?

Well, I sense the sarcasm oozing from
your choice of words  

No sarcasm, honestly. Don't you seriously think it's a shame that Chelsea got stopped by the ref from playing the Final?

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

I'll never understand how people complain about the NBA officiating. This game tonight wasn't a football match; just a pure charade. Chelsea deserved to win, and the refs didn't allow Barcelona to be eliminated, just like they'd never allow ManUtd to be eliminated. And people complain about the Chelsea players complaining? They were robbed, raped and murdered all night long.

Well, remember who was at the end of
that red card? It wasn't an Arsenal player
and the decision was shaky, to say the least.

I think there are different ways to
complain. The Chelsea players were
simply just classless.

Which red card?

The sending off of Fletcher.

Very different issues. I mean, Manchester United was already qualified, it had no impact in the game whatsoever and it was an arguable call (in my view, it was the right call).

Chelsea, on the other hand, was robbed all game along - and the officiating had a decisive impact on the outcome of the game and on which team qualified for the final.

Fletcher is not playing in the Final.
I think that's sad. Whether one likes
United or not, it's still a shame.

Well, he commited a penalty and was ejected. The entire Chelsea squad won't be playing in the Final, in spite of deserving it, because Platini and his clique didn't allow it. Isn't that a shame?

Well, I sense the sarcasm oozing from
your choice of words  

No sarcasm, honestly. Don't you seriously think it's a shame that Chelsea got stopped by the ref from playing the Final?

I'm sorry but this is getting ridiculous. Chelsea lost because they couldn't protect a 1-0 lead at home to a 10-men Barcelona side. If you concede a goal that late at Stamford Bridge on a stage that big with a man advantage, that's just a lack of mental strength. Trust me, I've been watching a team with no mental strength for the last 34 weeks and I recognize the breakdown symptoms. Whining and moaning and complaining about the refs, and invoking a UEFA wide conspiracy to promote Manchester United, including opposing managers and the secretary himself is just a tiny bit misguided, when the real issue was a defensive breakdown in the 93rd at home to a team down a man. If Chelsea did their job yesterday, end of worrying about the refs. They didn't, so now it's complaining time.

[cordobes]

I'll never understand how people complain about the NBA officiating. This game tonight wasn't a football match; just a pure charade. Chelsea deserved to win, and the refs didn't allow Barcelona to be eliminated, just like they'd never allow ManUtd to be eliminated. And people complain about the Chelsea players complaining? They were robbed, raped and murdered all night long.

Well, remember who was at the end of
that red card? It wasn't an Arsenal player
and the decision was shaky, to say the least.

I think there are different ways to
complain. The Chelsea players were
simply just classless.

Which red card?

The sending off of Fletcher.

Very different issues. I mean, Manchester United was already qualified, it had no impact in the game whatsoever and it was an arguable call (in my view, it was the right call).

Chelsea, on the other hand, was robbed all game along - and the officiating had a decisive impact on the outcome of the game and on which team qualified for the final.

Fletcher is not playing in the Final.
I think that's sad. Whether one likes
United or not, it's still a shame.

Well, he commited a penalty and was ejected. The entire Chelsea squad won't be playing in the Final, in spite of deserving it, because Platini and his clique didn't allow it. Isn't that a shame?

Well, I sense the sarcasm oozing from
your choice of words  

No sarcasm, honestly. Don't you seriously think it's a shame that Chelsea got stopped by the ref from playing the Final?

I'm sorry but this is getting ridiculous. Chelsea lost because they couldn't protect a 1-0 lead at home to a 10-men Barcelona side. If you concede a goal that late at Stamford Bridge on a stage that big with a man advantage, that's just a lack of mental strength. Trust me, I've been watching a team with no mental strength for the last 34 weeks and I recognize the breakdown symptoms. Whining and moaning and complaining about the refs, and invoking a UEFA wide conspiracy to promote Manchester United, including opposing managers and the secretary himself is just a tiny bit misguided, when the real issue was a defensive breakdown in the 93rd at home to a team down a man. If Chelsea did their job yesterday, end of worrying about the refs. They didn't, so now it's complaining time.

That's like saying that Fletcher shouldn't have risked a play that put himself in a situation to be called for a penalty and seeing a red card. He did, so now it's complaining time.

I'm not even a Chelsea fan. The idea that such a terrible officiating should get a pass because the team didn't defend well is ridiculous and purely nonsensical. In that case, why have referees? And then the Chelsea players are the ones getting bashed? People ask for suspensions for them instead of asking for such a terrible referee, who spoiled a game and a competition, to  be fired? That's bizarre. Who cares about mental strength? Now it's easy to put the blame on the lack of mental strength. If the ref had called a single one of those penalties and Chelsea had won the game for 2-0 or 2-1, would you be here saying the problem was lack of mental strength? I'm sorry but I very much doubt it.

[ACF]

So, we can bash football refs but
not NBA refs? I'm not getting the
point, my friend. Agree to disagree.

[cordobes]

So, we can bash football refs but
not NBA refs?

Of course we can bash NBA refs when they deserve it. Nothing wrong with that. Referees at this level are professionals or semi-pros: when they don't execute their job properly, the fans (the consumers who are paying them) have the right to criticize them.

Personally, I'm not one to bash referees. For example, there was a penalty the ref didn't call in the ManUtd vs. Porto match that probably cost us the qualification and I didn't care. Bad officiating happens all the time. Refs make mistakes. Move on. However, in certain cases one must talk. Especially if players who had plenty of reasons to be angered are the ones being bashed.

To sum it up: saying that it's a shame that a player will miss the Final for an alleged officiating mistake but refusing to say the same thing about an entire team that's will miss the Final due to several and repeated officiating mistakes is just incoherent.

[Edgar]

Chelsea lost because they couldn't protect a 1-0 lead at home to a 10-men Barcelona side.

Amen Hoyo.
This pretty much sums all the bla bla bla here
just like lakers couldnt protect a 25 pt lead last year
and felt to the champs

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

That's like saying that Fletcher shouldn't have risked a play that put himself in a situation to be called for a penalty and seeing a red card. He did, so now it's complaining time.

I'm not even a Chelsea fan. The idea that such a terrible officiating should get a pass because the team didn't defend well is ridiculous and purely nonsensical. In that case, why have referees? And then the Chelsea players are the ones getting bashed? People ask for suspensions for them instead of asking for such a terrible referee, who spoiled a game and a competition, to  be fired? That's bizarre. Who cares about mental strength? Now it's easy to put the blame on the lack of mental strength. If the ref had called a single one of those penalties and Chelsea had won the game for 2-0 or 2-1, would you be here saying the problem was lack of mental strength? I'm sorry but I very much doubt it.

I'm no United fan, and I'm actually okay with the Fletcher red and suspension... It sucks, but it's part of the game. I did think Chelsea's players deserved to be bashed. While they had points, the whole problem could have been avoided if they played out the rest of the game properly up a man. They should look in the mirror for blame. I am not saying the ref should get a pass, I promise you. He sucked. But he wasn't the reason they lost.

No kidding no one would be saying the problem was a lack of mental strength if the ref called a penalty, because there wasn't a problem if they won 2-0 or 2-1. But they didn't.

Part of what makes the great teams great in ANY sport is they way they overcome adversity, be it poor officiating, injuries, or just coming back from deficits. In this case, the adversity was the officiating which was clearly poor. However, to blame the loss on it considering they surrendered a goal to a team down a man at home to lose the aggregate in the last minutes of the game is ridiculous. Iniesta scored not on a penalty or free kick or even corner. He had a shot he shouldn't have had considering the numbers, and put it away.

Don't get me wrong. You are correct, the official was NOT GOOD. I'm not suggesting he get a pass. He deserves censure, surely, but he didn't allow Iniesta to shoot. He gave Chelsea a man advantage at home, not exactly a hopeless situation for the blues.

[Markeras]

I'll never understand how people complain about the NBA officiating. This game tonight wasn't a football match; just a pure charade. Chelsea deserved to win, and the refs didn't allow Barcelona to be eliminated, just like they'd never allow ManUtd to be eliminated. And people complain about the Chelsea players complaining? They were robbed, raped and murdered all night long.

Well, remember who was at the end of
that red card? It wasn't an Arsenal player
and the decision was shaky, to say the least.

I think there are different ways to
complain. The Chelsea players were
simply just classless.

Which red card?

The sending off of Fletcher.

Very different issues. I mean, Manchester United was already qualified, it had no impact in the game whatsoever and it was an arguable call (in my view, it was the right call).

Chelsea, on the other hand, was robbed all game along - and the officiating had a decisive impact on the outcome of the game and on which team qualified for the final.

Fletcher is not playing in the Final.
I think that's sad. Whether one likes
United or not, it's still a shame.

Well, he commited a penalty and was ejected. The entire Chelsea squad won't be playing in the Final, in spite of deserving it, because Platini and his clique didn't allow it. Isn't that a shame?

Well, I sense the sarcasm oozing from
your choice of words  

No sarcasm, honestly. Don't you seriously think it's a shame that Chelsea got stopped by the ref from playing the Final?

I'm sorry but this is getting ridiculous. Chelsea lost because they couldn't protect a 1-0 lead at home to a 10-men Barcelona side. If you concede a goal that late at Stamford Bridge on a stage that big with a man advantage, that's just a lack of mental strength. Trust me, I've been watching a team with no mental strength for the last 34 weeks and I recognize the breakdown symptoms. Whining and moaning and complaining about the refs, and invoking a UEFA wide conspiracy to promote Manchester United, including opposing managers and the secretary himself is just a tiny bit misguided, when the real issue was a defensive breakdown in the 93rd at home to a team down a man. If Chelsea did their job yesterday, end of worrying about the refs. They didn't, so now it's complaining time.

That's like saying that Fletcher shouldn't have risked a play that put himself in a situation to be called for a penalty and seeing a red card. He did, so now it's complaining time.

I'm not even a Chelsea fan. The idea that such a terrible officiating should get a pass because the team didn't defend well is ridiculous and purely nonsensical. In that case, why have referees? And then the Chelsea players are the ones getting bashed? People ask for suspensions for them instead of asking for such a terrible referee, who spoiled a game and a competition, to  be fired? That's bizarre. Who cares about mental strength? Now it's easy to put the blame on the lack of mental strength. If the ref had called a single one of those penalties and Chelsea had won the game for 2-0 or 2-1, would you be here saying the problem was lack of mental strength? I'm sorry but I very much doubt it.

if, if, if... and what if Chelsea had missed those penalties like they also missed them against Liverpool and ManU in previous seasons?

Football is actually quite an easy game: you score your chances, you advance. The rest is pretty much speculation. Otherwise if the referee from last week had conceeded a penalty on the charge on Iniesta inside the penalty box and if Barça had scored the penalty then what...