At times, hard to stay positive over the off season moves

[BballTim]

I guess I fall in the middle here. I understand where Greenback is coming from, but I do gravitate toward Nick in that I think your pessimism is overstated.
There's NO question about my dissatisfaction with this summer, and with my steadfast belief that James Posey wasn't the place to pinch the NBA equivalent of pennies. And there's no question that I do believe this bench has been stripped all but bare. We will not win 66 games with this crew, and I don't think 55 is an unrealistic number at all.

  Last year PJ barely played and we won 66 games, 45 of them by double digits. Do you really think losing Posey will make us 11 games worse? That's having us play significantly worse without Posey than we did when KG was out with the stomach problem last winter. I think you give Posey way too much credit for our success.

We are not talking about missing Posey for a few games.  He will be gone all year, including the playoffs.

  Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't realize that when he signed with another team he'd be gone all year including the playoffs. I guess you guys are right. We have no chance.

[crownsy]

I guess I fall in the middle here. I understand where Greenback is coming from, but I do gravitate toward Nick in that I think your pessimism is overstated.
There's NO question about my dissatisfaction with this summer, and with my steadfast belief that James Posey wasn't the place to pinch the NBA equivalent of pennies. And there's no question that I do believe this bench has been stripped all but bare. We will not win 66 games with this crew, and I don't think 55 is an unrealistic number at all.

  Last year PJ barely played and we won 66 games, 45 of them by double digits. Do you really think losing Posey will make us 11 games worse? That's having us play significantly worse without Posey than we did when KG was out with the stomach problem last winter. I think you give Posey way too much credit for our success.

We are not talking about missing Posey for a few games.  He will be gone all year, including the playoffs.

  Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't realize that when he signed with another team he'd be gone all year including the playoffs. I guess you guys are right. We have no chance.

count me among those who think people are vastly over valuing the impact of losing posey.

it will hurt yes, but nothign says one of the rooks cant step in for him.

before his good play this season, most people though he was a waste, an out of shape fat cat who didn't care anymore.

what a diffrence a year makes, now he's the diffrence between us being able to scrape by or being great in some peoples minds.

[BillfromBoston]

We will miss Posey for sure.  Who will take charges like Big Game James?  The C's should have found the money.

PJ was invaluable during our playoff run.  Who will lock down the bigs like he did? 

Sam I Am has forgot more about basketball than  Giddens and Pruitt will ever know.  Rondo is wildly inconsistent and inexperienced.

Perk and O'Bryant are probably below average.

We have the Big 3 and little else.  They are a little older and currently don't have the veteran reserves they did last year.  55 wins and out in the second round of the playoffs is about where we are for next year.

Okay, so I'm not crazy about Ainge's off season moves and even though Danny had an extraordinary year last year, I don't think he's quite the forward thinking person Billfrom Boston makes him out to be. But that doesn't mean I'm down on the season or some of the talent that you are Greenback.

Rondo is not wildly inconsistent. His defensive pressure is extremely consistent to the point of possibly being All-Defensive First Team sometime soon. As for inexperienced after playing 110 games last year and leading the team to a championship as a 22 year old PG, he's probably more experienced than some young PGs that have been in the league longer than him but haven't experienced playoff basketball. If Rondo's comments were true about needing to get back to work on his game shortly after a trip to see his buddy Perk in Florida in July, I expect a near All-Star type quality out of him. His game grew leaps and bounds last year and I think the expectation of another leap forward isn't asking a lot.

Perk is nowhere near a below average center. He is probably top 3-4 defensive centers in the league and although he's option #5 on the floor, he probably will be scoring a bit more this year. His hook is ugly but started becoming very consistent at the end of the year and through the playoffs. When the C's get him involved early on in games Perk was consistently a 10 PPG player. And he's still only 23 and his game is still growing.

How anyone couldn't expect bigger things out of Perk and Rondo this year considering they are playing with 3 players that will make them better and they will have another year of chemistry with said players, is beyond me. I can't wait to see this starting five together again. They are the best in the league and should only get better with familiarity.

As for vets off the bench, Eddie is still there with his lightening fast release and grit and range and for all the warts in his game Tony Allen still does bring a veteran defensive presence against bigger PGs and 2 guards. Not to mention that PJ Brown has already hinted at an All Star return once again and that Powe is in his third year and brings a very consistent game.

I'm surprised at your overall pessimism considering Posey is really the only player they lost and that losing Sam Cassell is addition by subtraction given the way that he played last year for the Celtics.

I think a return to the Finals is extremely likely and as long as the team is healthy, I think they will be very hard to beat.

I guess I fall in the middle here. I understand where Greenback is coming from, but I do gravitate toward Nick in that I think your pessimism is overstated.
There's NO question about my dissatisfaction with this summer, and with my steadfast belief that James Posey wasn't the place to pinch the NBA equivalent of pennies. And there's no question that I do believe this bench has been stripped all but bare. We will not win 66 games with this crew, and I don't think 55 is an unrealistic number at all.

But ... I also don't disregard the potential - the word, IMHO, is necessity - for future moves to bolster the bench and I applaud Ainge for keeping the red line open to PJ Brown Central. And I also saw playoff flashes that lead me to believe that, as a former critic, Perkins can evolve into a better than average player. I am certain, frankly, that experience will level off the ups and downs in Rondo's game.

My fear is this: Grousbeck is satisfied with one title, and took the dollar bills out of Ainge's wallet. There's really little other believable explanation for the sheer tightwad-ness that went into the Posey negotiations. He should have been resigned to complete the two or three-year title window, and then his contract passed on as an expiring to a team looking for cap room - if necessary. It's pollyanna-ish to believe that this bench is the equal of last years, much as it was equally silly to believe Ainge could ever build a winner with the crew we disposed of last summer.

It's been a very negative summer, in my opinion, and a definitive step back toward the pack in the Eastern Conference. We don't have a backup 5, we don't have sufficient bench outside shooting and our stars are at risk of minutes that endanger their late season health. I am not comforted by the multitude of declarative, yet factually unbacked, statements on this board about the pending greatness of Tony Allen - a player we declined to make a qualifying offer to and a player we would have happily allowed to walk save the Posey mistake - and the one I'm really chuckling over - that all of our summer additions are lottery picks.

None of this, however, closes the door on a repeat. Whether we make the Finals, and whether we repeat, depends entirely, I think, on Ainge's willingness to address these weaknesses sooner, rather than later. Danny's not a wizard, as Nick points out, and he certainly didn't draw up a plan calling for two teams to discard their stars for pennies on the dollar. He's a human being, a GM with a decidedly mixed resume who adroitly combined opportunity and luck in one top-quality summer, one that should not have been undone in any way, shape or form.

...with all due respect CoachBo, you are showing the exact thinking your handle represents-a coaches mind, not a GM's or any front office exec...

I don't know what you think happens in the running of a professional basketball team, but it is a multi-million dollar BUSINESS. Decisions are made with budgets, financial projections, potential acquisitions, contingencies, and estimates on production...this is not an opinion, it is FACT...you are basing your disbelief in this factual process on the unlikelihood of getting Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, but you aren't understanding it correctly.

The rumors swirling around this team over the past 2+ years were for almost EVERY big name All Star that was speculated to be on the move, including KG and Ray. Ray and KG were a "best case" scenario based on the preparation and planning Ainge and his staff undertook-thats how the business works, you game out scenarios based on the market dynamics and the assets you have available and you build a roadmap toward accomplishing your goals. There are numerous directions that can still lead to the main objective, but its the planning that allows this to take place.

...and that leads right into your assertion that Grousbeck "pulled the plug" on Ainge in terms of spending. Considering they made an MLE bid to Corey Maggette, that is simply not true...the fact that they offered minimum deals to everyone else shows that they valued those players less than the younger players they brought in, not that ownership took the pocket-book away....choose to believe that Wyc is a tight wad all you want, I would hope he had proven that point to the contrary already. The fact that you have no evidence for this other than you associating the team not spending more money on players YOU perceive to have a certain value, is not convincing.

We're clearly not going to agree, you are a coach in truth, if I remember correctly. So you are sure you have a handle on the situation. I am sure I have a handle on the situation as well. But, instead of arguing OUR viewpoints back and forth, why don't you we try something new?

Why do YOU think it is imperative that the team add these "necissary" vets "sooner rather than later" as you stated above? What is the urgency here? Who are these vets we are adding? What is the cost, in your estimation in not doing so?

Is it the minutes of GPA you are fixated on? Then give me a breakdown of the minutes as you see them now. We are talking about covering James Posey's lost minutes here. That's 12 minutes for Powe/Davis at the 4 and 12 minutes for TA/Miles/Giddens/Walker at the 3 isn't it?

What about my previous point about using Eddie House in a 3 man rotation with Pierce and Allen...if House/Pierce/Allen manned the 2/3 that's only 32 minutes a piece...not comfortable with House at 32 minutes? Use Tony Allen for 10 minutes at the 2...how are these guys playing too many minutes even without factoring in the rookies and unprovens?

[crownsy]

We will miss Posey for sure.  Who will take charges like Big Game James?  The C's should have found the money.

PJ was invaluable during our playoff run.  Who will lock down the bigs like he did? 

Sam I Am has forgot more about basketball than  Giddens and Pruitt will ever know.  Rondo is wildly inconsistent and inexperienced.

Perk and O'Bryant are probably below average.

We have the Big 3 and little else.  They are a little older and currently don't have the veteran reserves they did last year.  55 wins and out in the second round of the playoffs is about where we are for next year.

Okay, so I'm not crazy about Ainge's off season moves and even though Danny had an extraordinary year last year, I don't think he's quite the forward thinking person Billfrom Boston makes him out to be. But that doesn't mean I'm down on the season or some of the talent that you are Greenback.

Rondo is not wildly inconsistent. His defensive pressure is extremely consistent to the point of possibly being All-Defensive First Team sometime soon. As for inexperienced after playing 110 games last year and leading the team to a championship as a 22 year old PG, he's probably more experienced than some young PGs that have been in the league longer than him but haven't experienced playoff basketball. If Rondo's comments were true about needing to get back to work on his game shortly after a trip to see his buddy Perk in Florida in July, I expect a near All-Star type quality out of him. His game grew leaps and bounds last year and I think the expectation of another leap forward isn't asking a lot.

Perk is nowhere near a below average center. He is probably top 3-4 defensive centers in the league and although he's option #5 on the floor, he probably will be scoring a bit more this year. His hook is ugly but started becoming very consistent at the end of the year and through the playoffs. When the C's get him involved early on in games Perk was consistently a 10 PPG player. And he's still only 23 and his game is still growing.

How anyone couldn't expect bigger things out of Perk and Rondo this year considering they are playing with 3 players that will make them better and they will have another year of chemistry with said players, is beyond me. I can't wait to see this starting five together again. They are the best in the league and should only get better with familiarity.

As for vets off the bench, Eddie is still there with his lightening fast release and grit and range and for all the warts in his game Tony Allen still does bring a veteran defensive presence against bigger PGs and 2 guards. Not to mention that PJ Brown has already hinted at an All Star return once again and that Powe is in his third year and brings a very consistent game.

I'm surprised at your overall pessimism considering Posey is really the only player they lost and that losing Sam Cassell is addition by subtraction given the way that he played last year for the Celtics.

I think a return to the Finals is extremely likely and as long as the team is healthy, I think they will be very hard to beat.

I guess I fall in the middle here. I understand where Greenback is coming from, but I do gravitate toward Nick in that I think your pessimism is overstated.
There's NO question about my dissatisfaction with this summer, and with my steadfast belief that James Posey wasn't the place to pinch the NBA equivalent of pennies. And there's no question that I do believe this bench has been stripped all but bare. We will not win 66 games with this crew, and I don't think 55 is an unrealistic number at all.

But ... I also don't disregard the potential - the word, IMHO, is necessity - for future moves to bolster the bench and I applaud Ainge for keeping the red line open to PJ Brown Central. And I also saw playoff flashes that lead me to believe that, as a former critic, Perkins can evolve into a better than average player. I am certain, frankly, that experience will level off the ups and downs in Rondo's game.

My fear is this: Grousbeck is satisfied with one title, and took the dollar bills out of Ainge's wallet. There's really little other believable explanation for the sheer tightwad-ness that went into the Posey negotiations. He should have been resigned to complete the two or three-year title window, and then his contract passed on as an expiring to a team looking for cap room - if necessary. It's pollyanna-ish to believe that this bench is the equal of last years, much as it was equally silly to believe Ainge could ever build a winner with the crew we disposed of last summer.

It's been a very negative summer, in my opinion, and a definitive step back toward the pack in the Eastern Conference. We don't have a backup 5, we don't have sufficient bench outside shooting and our stars are at risk of minutes that endanger their late season health. I am not comforted by the multitude of declarative, yet factually unbacked, statements on this board about the pending greatness of Tony Allen - a player we declined to make a qualifying offer to and a player we would have happily allowed to walk save the Posey mistake - and the one I'm really chuckling over - that all of our summer additions are lottery picks.

None of this, however, closes the door on a repeat. Whether we make the Finals, and whether we repeat, depends entirely, I think, on Ainge's willingness to address these weaknesses sooner, rather than later. Danny's not a wizard, as Nick points out, and he certainly didn't draw up a plan calling for two teams to discard their stars for pennies on the dollar. He's a human being, a GM with a decidedly mixed resume who adroitly combined opportunity and luck in one top-quality summer, one that should not have been undone in any way, shape or form.

...with all due respect CoachBo, you are showing the exact thinking your handle represents-a coaches mind, not a GM's or any front office exec...

I don't know what you think happens in the running of a professional basketball team, but it is a multi-million dollar BUSINESS. Decisions are made with budgets, financial projections, potential acquisitions, contingencies, and estimates on production...this is not an opinion, it is FACT...you are basing your disbelief in this factual process on the unlikelihood of getting Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, but you aren't understanding it correctly.

The rumors swirling around this team over the past 2+ years were for almost EVERY big name All Star that was speculated to be on the move, including KG and Ray. Ray and KG were a "best case" scenario based on the preparation and planning Ainge and his staff undertook-thats how the business works, you game out scenarios based on the market dynamics and the assets you have available and you build a roadmap toward accomplishing your goals. There are numerous directions that can still lead to the main objective, but its the planning that allows this to take place.

...and that leads right into your assertion that Grousbeck "pulled the plug" on Ainge in terms of spending. Considering they made an MLE bid to Corey Maggette, that is simply not true...the fact that they offered minimum deals to everyone else shows that they valued those players less than the younger players they brought in, not that ownership took the pocket-book away....choose to believe that Wyc is a tight wad all you want, I would hope he had proven that point to the contrary already. The fact that you have no evidence for this other than you associating the team not spending more money on players YOU perceive to have a certain value, is not convincing.

We're clearly not going to agree, you are a coach in truth, if I remember correctly. So you are sure you have a handle on the situation. I am sure I have a handle on the situation as well. But, instead of arguing OUR viewpoints back and forth, why don't you we try something new?

Why do YOU think it is imperative that the team add these "necissary" vets "sooner rather than later" as you stated above? What is the urgency here? Who are these vets we are adding? What is the cost, in your estimation in not doing so?

Is it the minutes of GPA you are fixated on? Then give me a breakdown of the minutes as you see them now. We are talking about covering James Posey's lost minutes here. That's 12 minutes for Powe/Davis at the 4 and 12 minutes for TA/Miles/Giddens/Walker at the 3 isn't it?

What about my previous point about using Eddie House in a 3 man rotation with Pierce and Allen...if House/Pierce/Allen manned the 2/3 that's only 32 minutes a piece...not comfortable with House at 32 minutes? Use Tony Allen for 10 minutes at the 2...how are these guys playing too many minutes even without factoring in the rookies and unprovens?

great post, TP4U.

[BballTim]

I guess I fall in the middle here. I understand where Greenback is coming from, but I do gravitate toward Nick in that I think your pessimism is overstated.
There's NO question about my dissatisfaction with this summer, and with my steadfast belief that James Posey wasn't the place to pinch the NBA equivalent of pennies. And there's no question that I do believe this bench has been stripped all but bare. We will not win 66 games with this crew, and I don't think 55 is an unrealistic number at all.

  Last year PJ barely played and we won 66 games, 45 of them by double digits. Do you really think losing Posey will make us 11 games worse? That's having us play significantly worse without Posey than we did when KG was out with the stomach problem last winter. I think you give Posey way too much credit for our success.

The concern is not really in the regular season.  The team has enough talent to be a top 2 team in the East in the regular season.



It is the playoffs that those holes are magnified.  And in the playoffs, all it takes is one blown game to change a 7 game series victory to a 7 game defeat. 





But Ainge has time to address this.  And I have to believe he will.  It might just mean one our favorite young bench players is moved.

  I'm not claiming that our roster is perfect, but I don't think it's time to panic yet. How big a hole did Posey leave? Surely we're not going to try and plug in Giddens or Walker or Miles to Posey's 25 minutes a game. Powe/Davis will absorb some of those minutes, Tony Allen will too and we might see some Allen/Allen on the wings lineups. House might play a little sg also. We might just be looking to fill 5-8 minutes a game. If that's the case, I'mnot sure that the dropoff from Posey to someone else will be severe enough to tilt the field against us. I clearly have doubts that the play of PP's backup will cause a team that had one of the more dominant regular seasons in nba history to lose 10+ more games on its own.

[gpap]

So let me get this straight. Fans defending Danny Ainge's offseason moves say that he's trying to get the Celtics to be more athletic.

Hmmmmm....well first off, if last year's Celtics roster needed any improvements or tweaking, then how come they won 66 games and the NBA finals?

Secondly, I hear all this talk about wanting to get more athletic.
Problem is, Kendrick Perkins doesn't strike me as an athletic player (not to single out Perk but to make a point.)

Also, being a more athletic team doesn't necessarily translate to more wins.  The Celtics from 2006-07 had some athletic players like Gerald Green, but they also lost 58 games.

I hope I am wrong in my pessism of the 08/09 roster like I was about being unhappy that the Sox traded that cancer Manny for Jason Bay.

But right now, I am not convinced that I am.

[BillfromBoston]

...but we can't replace Posey's "intangibles" now can we?

[nickagneta]

...but we can't replace Posey's "intangibles" now can we?

LOL. Sorry, I have to laugh every time I see the word intangibles in parenthesis.

I'll take a boatload of talent over a boatload of "intangibles" any day of the week.

[Greenback]

...but we can't replace Posey's "intangibles" now can we?

LOL. Sorry, I have to laugh every time I see the word intangibles in parenthesis.

I'll take a boatload of talent over a boatload of "intangibles" any day of the week.

Ubuntu is a philosophy that promotes the greater good rather than individual success.
Posey had the team mentality and was a very good, not to mention clutch, role player.  He was probably our 4th most valuable player last year.

Every team needs talent AND intangibles.  We already have the Big 3.  We need good role players and they are hard to find.

Team chemistry can be altered to the point where the team implodes if all you have is talent and attitudes.

[BballTim]

So let me get this straight. Fans defending Danny Ainge's offseason moves say that he's trying to get the Celtics to be more athletic.

Hmmmmm....well first off, if last year's Celtics roster needed any improvements or tweaking, then how come they won 66 games and the NBA finals?

Secondly, I hear all this talk about wanting to get more athletic.
Problem is, Kendrick Perkins doesn't strike me as an athletic player (not to single out Perk but to make a point.)

Also, being a more athletic team doesn't necessarily translate to more wins.  The Celtics from 2006-07 had some athletic players like Gerald Green, but they also lost 58 games.

I hope I am wrong in my pessism of the 08/09 roster like I was about being unhappy that the Sox traded that cancer Manny for Jason Bay.

But right now, I am not convinced that I am.

  Using Green as an example to show that getting more athletic doesn't necessarily help is like saying we shouldn't look for a taller backup C than BBD because Jerome James is tall and the Knicks suck.

  Speaking mainly for myself, Ainge's offseason moves weren't about just getting younger and more athletic. He didn't dump Posey to sign Walker and Miles because they might be able to jump higher than Posey. Ainge would obviously prefer to have Posey on our roster, just not at any price. I would prefer to have Posey on our roster. I agree that having Posey on our roster would increase our chances of winning the title. That's not really in dispute. But I don't think that Posey was so important last year that it's unlikely that we can win without him. And I don't think that, even with Posey gone, anyone's made a compelling argument that our 2008-2009 team is weaker than our 2007-2008 title team.

[BballTim]

...but we can't replace Posey's "intangibles" now can we?

LOL. Sorry, I have to laugh every time I see the word intangibles in parenthesis.

I'll take a boatload of talent over a boatload of "intangibles" any day of the week.

Ubuntu is a philosophy that promotes the greater good rather than individual success.
Posey had the team mentality and was a very good, not to mention clutch, role player.  He was probably our 4th most valuable player last year.

Every team needs talent AND intangibles.  We already have the Big 3.  We need good role players and they are hard to find.

Team chemistry can be altered to the point where the team implodes if all you have is talent and attitudes.

  I think Rondo and Perk were more valuable than Posey last year, and with the experience they gained they'd be clearly more valuable than Posey this year. And who are all these talented players with attitudes? You're magnifying the impact of players who probably won't average more than 5 minutes a game if they're even on the final roster.

[crownsy]

...but we can't replace Posey's "intangibles" now can we?

LOL. Sorry, I have to laugh every time I see the word intangibles in parenthesis.

I'll take a boatload of talent over a boatload of "intangibles" any day of the week.

Ubuntu is a philosophy that promotes the greater good rather than individual success.
Posey had the team mentality and was a very good, not to mention clutch, role player.  He was probably our 4th most valuable player last year.

Every team needs talent AND intangibles.  We already have the Big 3.  We need good role players and they are hard to find.

Team chemistry can be altered to the point where the team implodes if all you have is talent and attitudes.

are you kidding me?

rondo and perk were more valuable. with rondo, it wasent even close.

[BillfromBoston]

...but we can't replace Posey's "intangibles" now can we?

LOL. Sorry, I have to laugh every time I see the word intangibles in parenthesis.

I'll take a boatload of talent over a boatload of "intangibles" any day of the week.

...you need both actually, or else you become the Knicks ...but the point was suppose to be sarcastic...

Changing gears, I keep seeing this "magical" and "crystal ball" stuff come up everywhere...its really not that difficult to grasp:

1. Players have contracts that last certain amount of years.
2. Players make set amounts of money on those contracts
3. Their is a set amount of years and raises allowed in a contract
4. Historically age and production factor heavily into projected salary
5. Looking at team rosters will tell you when certain player's contracts will expire
6. Looking at certain team situations will give you hypotheses on how a team may build in the future
7. Having daily discussions with other teams helps to establish the value of your players as well as theirs
8. Keeping notes on these conversations, creating spreadsheets on each years potential free agents, and continuing to update as you go allows for you to create "target lists" of players.
9. Managing your team's salary cap and making sure the players you have on your roster provide value based on their production/earnings ratio gives you flexibility
10. Having a successful team gives you clout in the marketplace because become a desirable location to play and the perceived value of your players increases because of that success.

This isn't rocket science, its business management for the business of basketball. Fans of teams look at every move in isolation and are constantly surprised by what comes next, well run teams with competent leadership are not...bad teams are run by guys like Isiah Thomas or Michael Jordan who, like fans, make isolated moves based on talent and not on asset management and long-term project planning...these teams most often fail because of it.

This is business, this is how it works...I recommend to everyone who wishes to spend the time--SAVE INTERVIEWS and ARTICLES, record audio as well...Ainge, Wyc, Doc, Pierce...all of these people have given insight into this process over the course of the past 5 years. They talk about this stuff, but short-sighted fans caught in the here and now gloss over these points and whine about team management and ownership trying to "sell a bill of goods" and stuff like that. All the while, the thought process and basic outline of how they plan to go about doing it is laid out for public consumption.

You can go back into the Globe and Herald Archives and pull transcripts from Ainge and you'll see a very concise outline stating his initial intention to build through the draft and trade, his thoughts about big name players who come onto the market year-to-year, his intention to develop and consolidate in order to "be a player" on the market, and his desire to build up the reputation of the franchise to make it more attractive to players...

We are witnessing a PROCESS of team building that started 5 years ago and is continuing on to this day...the process isn't so finite as to be able to factor in any certainty of acquiring any specific player, such as Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, but it does account for their potential availability. Its Ainge's job to figure out what the value of those players is and position himself to meet that value if and when they come available. This happens with ALL prospective players Ainge values, as he is constantly gauging the market and seeing what MAY come to pass.

...what else do you think Ainge and the front office do year-round? You don't honestly think they get a roster and then sit on their butt waiting to see what happens...team building is a 12 month a year process of evaluation--another thing Ainge has stated in the public forum...our current success and our future success will ride on this process of evaluation, anticipation, and CALCULATED risk...

[ManUp]

Right now we only have two players we know exactly what we're going to get from off the bench (House & Powe). After those House and Posey there are a lot of questions. There are too many thing that would have to go our way. Giddens, Miles, and O'Bryant have to come with the right attitude.  Allen, Walker, and Miles have to stay healthy. They all have to learn how to contribute in limited roles.

They all have to be able to play there role and do it well. For example as of right now I don't like that POB is our only player of the bench taller than 6'9. When Perk gets in early foul trouble against a player like D.Howard, or Yao are we honestly going to try and stick KG on them? or do you feel comfortable with O'Bryant there trying to buy Perk time? Or when Rondo needs a breather and House is out there with someone like Lindsey Hunter guarding him. I know I won't feel to comfortable seeing House under that type of pressure.

I guess i'm still more worried about back-up pg and c then I realized.

[crownsy]

evaluation, anticipation, and CALCULATED risk...

yep, and mabey, just mabey, they calculated that james posey isn't as irreplaceable as you think he is. they DID offer him the full MLE for 3 years you know, prehaps they calculated that when he's 35 in year 3, he won't be useful, and a fourth year would be non-productive.

I'm sure alot more thinking went into it then "wyc says we have to be cheap this year." as some seem to think.

You may be right, you may be wrong, but, here's a question for you.

show me evidence you have that posey won't devolve back into what he did for the next two years after the heat championship? you know, when he drank himself up 25-35 pounds and generally looked bad off the bench?

people forget thats why he was avalable that late in the FA process and we could sign him for short money. teams wern't exactly beating down james "im the greatest bench player EVAR!!!" posey's door 12 months ago.

(note: i don't think he will regress again, but  to be fair your crystal ball isn't foolproof either, and your farther away from the process by several orders of magnatude than angie is for making that calculated risk you talking about )