At times, hard to stay positive over the off season moves

[crownsy]

I know how partial some of you are.  I have been a Celtics fan since 1964.
 
Each player is ranked for how well they play their position relative to the rest of the league. 

It is a pre-season ranking just like there will soon be all kinds of them in basketball magazines and on the web.  It may be fun to start a thread and you can put your grading system in place.

Do not compare last year with this year.

Have fun.

So you are expecting Rondo and Perkins to take steps back this year?

We may have seen Perk’s Peak.  Perk is a warrior but the shoulder is a question mark.  If he is healthy, he will probably have the season he did last year: average.

Rondo started to go backwards last year – in the playoffs.  After getting clocked a couple of times, he became afraid to shoot bunnies.   He became tentative like Tony Allen.  He drove to the basket and then would pass it back out to the 3 point line.  Dangerous passes with the clock running out.  And I hold my breath every time Rondo shoots his jump shot.   Did you listen to Van Gundy while he announced the finals?

If would be great it they both improve.   However, I will believe it WHEN I see it.

And what about their defense? 

Perk and Rondo are better defensive players than offensive players.  The overall ranking takes it all into account.

Posey and PJ were our best defensive players last year, along with KG.

By the way, check out this link.  I predicted 55 wins here and in another post way before ESPN did:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=EastOffseasonPredictions

Well, the coaches, analysts and other teams performance will tell you that Perkins was the 2nd best low post defender this team had. 



So, you are saying that Rondo as an offensive player is either a low D or high F? 

It's a proprietary rating system! 

Serious, it's a weighted score with a little more emphasis on offense because the point guard is supposed to run the offense.

so you think a 2nd year PG who plays great defense and on the offensive end gets 6 assists a game to go along with 10 points is a liablity to his team at that spot?

i think i see why your ratings have trouble reflecting any kind of reality....teams would kill for rajon rondo, and i gurentee no NBA executive outside chris wallace thinks hes a worse PG than eddie house.

I mean, i don't mean to pile onto you man, but your entire grades are just laughable.

other undefensable grades: TA, who played the worse basketball of his career, gets a C? for what, fouling 3 point shooters in limited minutes?

what would he have to do to get an actual grade he deserves? kill a man at half court during a timeout?

[BudweiserCeltic]

I think this thread needs a thread split.

[bucknersrevenge]

Celtics Pre-Season Grades  =  55 Wins, 1st in Atlantic, Conference finals

Center:  C-
Perkins  C
O’Bryant D+

Power Forward:  B+
Garnett A
Powe C
Davis C-
Scal  D

Small Forward: B+
Pierce A-
Walker D
Miles  D-

Shooting Guard: B-
R. Allen B
T. Allen C
Pruitt D+

Point Guard: C-
Rondo C-
House C
Giddens D

Coaching:  C+
Doc  C-
Thibodeau  B+
C. Ray  A-

Congratulations. You have just ruined all credibility here in one post. There are so many things wrong with these grades I'm not even sure where to begin. It would probably be a good idea if you didn't post for a while, maybe change your screenname too.

Disagree with him, fine. 



But do not insult another poster.

I didn't call him a name. I just think that post was a giant steaming pile. The kind of thing someone might post if they weren't really watching games but just looking at stats on ESPN. I mean seriously wdleehi, How does an A-minues and 2 D's equal a B-plus average?? I mean before you can even debate the grades thats just BAD mathematics.

I disagree with him.  And I am questioning his points. 


But no where did I need to attack his credibility or whether or not he should continue to post here. 

Pierce and KG covered up a multitude of sins. 

Right, right...and that's how teams win championships of course. Two guys cover for 13 other players defects. Got it.   

Fine wdleehi, I get your point. Credibility tangent aside though, that previous post is just really bad math skills. And that's not an attack mind you, that's just a simple observation.

[bucknersrevenge]

I know how partial some of you are.  I have been a Celtics fan since 1964.
 
Each player is ranked for how well they play their position relative to the rest of the league. 

It is a pre-season ranking just like there will soon be all kinds of them in basketball magazines and on the web.  It may be fun to start a thread and you can put your grading system in place.

Do not compare last year with this year.

Have fun.

So you are expecting Rondo and Perkins to take steps back this year?

We may have seen Perk’s Peak.  Perk is a warrior but the shoulder is a question mark.  If he is healthy, he will probably have the season he did last year: average.

Rondo started to go backwards last year – in the playoffs.  After getting clocked a couple of times, he became afraid to shoot bunnies.   He became tentative like Tony Allen.  He drove to the basket and then would pass it back out to the 3 point line.  Dangerous passes with the clock running out.  And I hold my breath every time Rondo shoots his jump shot.   Did you listen to Van Gundy while he announced the finals?

If would be great it they both improve.   However, I will believe it WHEN I see it.

And what about their defense? 

Perk and Rondo are better defensive players than offensive players.  The overall ranking takes it all into account.

Posey and PJ were our best defensive players last year, along with KG.

By the way, check out this link.  I predicted 55 wins here and in another post way before ESPN did:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=EastOffseasonPredictions

Well, the coaches, analysts and other teams performance will tell you that Perkins was the 2nd best low post defender this team had. 



So, you are saying that Rondo as an offensive player is either a low D or high F? 

It's a proprietary rating system! 

Serious, it's a weighted score with a little more emphasis on offense because the point guard is supposed to run the offense.

Boston's offense scored over 100 points a game was 4th in the league in team overall shooting pct and 5th in 3pt pct, 1st in the league in point differential and they won a title. Oh and Rondo shot  49% from the floor and averaged 5 assists per game for an offense that is still designed to run many of its sets through KG and Paul, not because they have to but because KG and PAUL possess the skills to do so. You're right. I can easily see how terrible Rondo was. Thanks for clearing that up.

[crownsy]

I know how partial some of you are.  I have been a Celtics fan since 1964.
 
Each player is ranked for how well they play their position relative to the rest of the league. 

It is a pre-season ranking just like there will soon be all kinds of them in basketball magazines and on the web.  It may be fun to start a thread and you can put your grading system in place.

Do not compare last year with this year.

Have fun.

So you are expecting Rondo and Perkins to take steps back this year?

We may have seen Perk’s Peak.  Perk is a warrior but the shoulder is a question mark.  If he is healthy, he will probably have the season he did last year: average.

Rondo started to go backwards last year – in the playoffs.  After getting clocked a couple of times, he became afraid to shoot bunnies.   He became tentative like Tony Allen.  He drove to the basket and then would pass it back out to the 3 point line.  Dangerous passes with the clock running out.  And I hold my breath every time Rondo shoots his jump shot.   Did you listen to Van Gundy while he announced the finals?

If would be great it they both improve.   However, I will believe it WHEN I see it.

And what about their defense? 

Perk and Rondo are better defensive players than offensive players.  The overall ranking takes it all into account.

Posey and PJ were our best defensive players last year, along with KG.

By the way, check out this link.  I predicted 55 wins here and in another post way before ESPN did:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=EastOffseasonPredictions

Well, the coaches, analysts and other teams performance will tell you that Perkins was the 2nd best low post defender this team had. 



So, you are saying that Rondo as an offensive player is either a low D or high F? 

It's a proprietary rating system! 

Serious, it's a weighted score with a little more emphasis on offense because the point guard is supposed to run the offense.

Boston's offense scored over 100 points a game was 4th in the league in team overall shooting pct and 5th in 3pt pct, 1st in the league in differential and they won a title. So I can easily see how terrible Rondo was. Thanks for clearing that up.

don't bring your confusing facts into this buckner, these grades are subjective 

and, apperntly, don't include assists as part of the offense, since rajon is a passing PG.

but i guess those don't "run the offense"

i mean, i understand your concern's greenback, but just say your concerned abotu things. rankings things without regard to each other makes for confusuing grades liek you have here.

i mean, for one thing, if these are "for the upcoming season" i'd probley go with N/A for rookies since you don't know what you'll get, rather than assume there all terrable.

[bucknersrevenge]

I know how partial some of you are.  I have been a Celtics fan since 1964.
 
Each player is ranked for how well they play their position relative to the rest of the league. 

It is a pre-season ranking just like there will soon be all kinds of them in basketball magazines and on the web.  It may be fun to start a thread and you can put your grading system in place.

Do not compare last year with this year.

Have fun.

So you are expecting Rondo and Perkins to take steps back this year?

We may have seen Perk’s Peak.  Perk is a warrior but the shoulder is a question mark.  If he is healthy, he will probably have the season he did last year: average.

Rondo started to go backwards last year – in the playoffs.  After getting clocked a couple of times, he became afraid to shoot bunnies.   He became tentative like Tony Allen.  He drove to the basket and then would pass it back out to the 3 point line.  Dangerous passes with the clock running out.  And I hold my breath every time Rondo shoots his jump shot.   Did you listen to Van Gundy while he announced the finals?

If would be great it they both improve.   However, I will believe it WHEN I see it.

And what about their defense? 

Perk and Rondo are better defensive players than offensive players.  The overall ranking takes it all into account.

Posey and PJ were our best defensive players last year, along with KG.

By the way, check out this link.  I predicted 55 wins here and in another post way before ESPN did:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=EastOffseasonPredictions

Well, the coaches, analysts and other teams performance will tell you that Perkins was the 2nd best low post defender this team had. 



So, you are saying that Rondo as an offensive player is either a low D or high F? 

It's a proprietary rating system! 

Serious, it's a weighted score with a little more emphasis on offense because the point guard is supposed to run the offense.

Boston's offense scored over 100 points a game was 4th in the league in team overall shooting pct and 5th in 3pt pct, 1st in the league in differential and they won a title. So I can easily see how terrible Rondo was. Thanks for clearing that up.

don't bring your confusing facts into this buckner, these grades are subjective

and, apperntly, don't include assists as part of the offense, since rajon is a passing PG.

but i guess those don't "run the offense"

i mean, i understand your concern's greenback, but just say your concerned abotu things. rankings things without regard to each other makes for confusuing grades liek you have here.

i mean, for one thing, if these are "for the upcoming season" i'd probley go with N/A for rookies since you don't know what you'll get, rather than assume there all terrable.

They certainly are. It's what they are subject TO that has me lost.

[Greenback]

You guys are funny.

How excited do you get over something really important?

The off season is really slow and I am glad to get your blood flowing.

[bucknersrevenge]

You guys are funny.

How excited do you get over something really important?

The off season is really slow and I am glad to get your blood flowing.

If by excited you mean "laughing hysterically", yes we're excited. I have enjoyed this little interlude as well.

[Greenback]

Pierce will probably play the lion's share of minutes at small forward.  His score should have more importance in the overall small forward score.  Miles and Walker would play a few minutes and bring the overall score down. 

N/A would be OK for rookies, this is true.

Because the offense runs through Pierce and KG, the stats on Rondo could be misleading.  Again, Pierce and KG cover a multitude of sins, including their shooting (and Ray's), which from time to time turns broken plays into assists.

Try to be kind. No sacred cows and no sacrificial lambs. 

[nickagneta]

Again, please explain the coaching grade of A- for Clifford Ray. You say that these grades don't reflect last year but this coming year. All of the big men that Clifford Ray coaches have mediocre to bad grades.

Perk C-
O'Bryant D+
Powe C
Davis C-
Scalabrini D

Let's face it, KG was an A for a decade before he even got here. But Clifford Ray has worked with Perk, Scal and Powe for 2 years going on 3, with Davis for 1 year going on 2 and now an entire summer with POB.

How does he deserve an A- if none of his pupils are any good?

 

[bucknersrevenge]

I'll just say this and lave it here before this thread gets locked. Pre-season grades, it would seem to me would carry more weight after the pre-season was completed so we'd at least have a better idea of how all the pieces will fit especially the younger players of which we have many.

I just dont think you can judge each of these players in a vacuum. You have to look at each player in terms of how their role fits into the team. I mean this team was all about "ubuntu". Every player on this team last year understood how their role fit.

Rondo's overall stats may not look like much but he ran one of the mosre efficient offenses in the league last year. He shot 49% from the floor, a HUGE improvement from where his jumpshot was the previous seasons. How many 2nd year pgs lead their team to a championship? I mean how many critics did Rondo have last year. He's a solid defender. And the truth is this kid is just scratching the surface of how good he can be. Most pg's really start blossoming after their 3rd year. Think, REALLY think about how good this kid's gonna be in 2 years.

Perk is a guy who is constantly underrated on this team. How can can Cliff Ray get an A grade knowing he worked with this guy the most who gets such a bad grade? Perk's job is not to score all the points. His job is to be an enforcer, a protector, a defenders, and a rebounder. He can make the "high-low" pass at the top of the key. He started showing more touch late in the year on his hook shots and on his short jumpers. With a team like this, really all you want is for your center to convert dumpoffs which he does. His rotations improved next to KG. He still picks up some ticky-tack stuff on occasion but it happened a lot less frequently than it did a year ago. Last year during the regular season Doc went to that ridiculous small ball lineup with Posey at the 4 in the 2nd half far more than he should have and he knew it by the end of the season. I attribute that at least partly to why Perks numbers weren't higher. With Posey gone I'd like to see Perk make it up to around 30 minutes a game from 24.5. Perk only fouled out of 3 games last year which IMO, for the role he plays with this team isn't enough. I'd rather Perk foul out or get to 30 minutes, whichever comes first.

[Greenback]

Again, please explain the coaching grade of A- for Clifford Ray. You say that these grades don't reflect last year but this coming year. All of the big men that Clifford Ray coaches have mediocre to bad grades.

Perk C-
O'Bryant D+
Powe C
Davis C-
Scalabrini D

Let's face it, KG was an A for a decade before he even got here. But Clifford Ray has worked with Perk, Scal and Powe for 2 years going on 3, with Davis for 1 year going on 2 and now an entire summer with POB.

How does he deserve an A- if none of his pupils are any good?

 

His best pupil, Big Al, has been traded.  Perk and Powe have improved.  Baby, not sure.  O'Bryant, let's hope.

[bucknersrevenge]

Again, please explain the coaching grade of A- for Clifford Ray. You say that these grades don't reflect last year but this coming year. All of the big men that Clifford Ray coaches have mediocre to bad grades.

Perk C-
O'Bryant D+
Powe C
Davis C-
Scalabrini D

Let's face it, KG was an A for a decade before he even got here. But Clifford Ray has worked with Perk, Scal and Powe for 2 years going on 3, with Davis for 1 year going on 2 and now an entire summer with POB.

How does he deserve an A- if none of his pupils are any good?

 

Thank you Nick. I noticed that same thing and wondered about it.

[bucknersrevenge]

Again, please explain the coaching grade of A- for Clifford Ray. You say that these grades don't reflect last year but this coming year. All of the big men that Clifford Ray coaches have mediocre to bad grades.

Perk C-
O'Bryant D+
Powe C
Davis C-
Scalabrini D

Let's face it, KG was an A for a decade before he even got here. But Clifford Ray has worked with Perk, Scal and Powe for 2 years going on 3, with Davis for 1 year going on 2 and now an entire summer with POB.

How does he deserve an A- if none of his pupils are any good?

 

His best pupil, Big Al, has been traded.  Perk and Powe have improved.  Baby, not sure.  O'Bryant, let's hope.

Big Al wasn't on last year's team so that should have no effect on what Cliff Ray did for us LAST year or pre-season this year.

[Greenback]

Again, please explain the coaching grade of A- for Clifford Ray. You say that these grades don't reflect last year but this coming year. All of the big men that Clifford Ray coaches have mediocre to bad grades.

Perk C-
O'Bryant D+
Powe C
Davis C-
Scalabrini D

Let's face it, KG was an A for a decade before he even got here. But Clifford Ray has worked with Perk, Scal and Powe for 2 years going on 3, with Davis for 1 year going on 2 and now an entire summer with POB.

How does he deserve an A- if none of his pupils are any good?

 

His best pupil, Big Al, has been traded.  Perk and Powe have improved.  Baby, not sure.  O'Bryant, let's hope.

Big Al wasn't on last year's team so that should have no effect on what Cliff Ray did for us LAST year or pre-season this year.

Picky, picky. 

Cliff also helped develop Dwight Howard and others.  The point is, a coach's experience and mental faculties do not deteriorate as fast as a player's athlete skills and so should be counted on as more reliable for the upcoming year.

For the record, I do not wish to discuss this any further until there is constructive subject matter.