O'Bryant Working With Cliff Ray

[Roy Hobbs]

Let me say first, and once again, that I know next to nothing about O'Bryant. What I don't understand is the label of "lazy" and "unmotivated" that is being applied to him. Where exactly do these labels come from? Where are you people getting these ideas?

Did Nellie label him that way?

Nelson and Mullin said his work ethic wasn't there, and Ainge -- and even O'Bryant himself -- used similar (although less harsh) critiques of his effort the first two years.  O'Bryant called himself "immature", I believe, meaning he wasn't prepared for the league.

Mullin -- and obviously Ainge -- had nice things to say about his talent.  I'm willing to accept the composite picture presented by all of the above:  O'Bryant has some natural skills, but hasn't progressed farther in part due to his own commitment.

[BballTim]

Let me say first, and once again, that I know next to nothing about O'Bryant. What I don't understand is the label of "lazy" and "unmotivated" that is being applied to him. Where exactly do these labels come from? Where are you people getting these ideas?

Let's give the kid a chance before insultingly calling him the second coming of Mark Blount. He hasn't done anything to deserve it.

Well, he himself admits that he lacked work ethic in his NBA career so far. Mullin said that "he needs to work harder". Ainge said that Garnett's work ethic can be a good example for him. I believe that people are getting those ideas from this: his own, Mullin's and Ainge's remarks.

Yeah, I'd say I came in a little immature and didn't understand what the NBA was really about," he said. "I guess the light turned on, or whatever you want to call it, and now I see it takes a lot of work to be successful in the league."

He says that NOW he understands that it takes a lot of work to be successful. I certainly hope he does. But I can see why are people suspicious of someone who, till now, only talked the talk.

  Not comparing the 2 players, but Al Jefferson made similar comments after his 2nd season.

[Surferdad]

I've got nothing against POB, but there's several simple facts to keep in mind:

1) It took Perkins FIVE YEARS to be the serviceable center he is today.  (I like Perk, but that's still all he is.)  So don't expect C.Ray to perform miracles overnight.

2)  #1 above is made worse by the fact that POB will not get much playing time, at least not right away.  (This was also part of Perkins' problem early on.)  He certainly is not ahead of Leon Powe in the big man rotation and probably not Glen Davis either.  He might be used in very select situations like against taller centers (Z, Yao, etc.) but otherwise will ride the pine.

3) POB should have shown some potential by now.  I applaud him for waking up to hard work, but I really don't see the necessary talent.

It's very possible that POB shows steady improvement as a Celtic and then becomes trade fodder down the road, just like Delonte West, Ryan Gomes, etc.

[CoachBo]

There ought to be plenty of motivation in a simple fact: If he doesn't make this work, he's on the Gerald Green road to oblivion.

[billysan]

There ought to be plenty of motivation in a simple fact: If he doesn't make this work, he's on the Gerald Green road to oblivion.

Exactly my thoughts Coach, all this immaturity from the past and 'not knowing how hard it would be' is out on the table. No more excuses kid, this is your career we are talking about. You have been given a second chance by Danny Ainge and the current NBA champions. Time to step up and be a man. See what happened to Kendrick Perkins? See what happened to Gerald Green? Which one do you want to be?

I do feel like Danny must see something in this kid he likes or I dont see him giving him a two year deal. That is a committment for someone who is by reputation "lazy". I also dont think Clifford Ray will tolerate lazy.

The lack of playing time will iron itself out quickly, as soon as Xmas IMO.

[BillfromBoston]

I've got nothing against POB, but there's several simple facts to keep in mind:

1) It took Perkins FIVE YEARS to be the serviceable center he is today.  (I like Perk, but that's still all he is.)  So don't expect C.Ray to perform miracles overnight.

2)  #1 above is made worse by the fact that POB will not get much playing time, at least not right away.  (This was also part of Perkins' problem early on.)  He certainly is not ahead of Leon Powe in the big man rotation and probably not Glen Davis either.  He might be used in very select situations like against taller centers (Z, Yao, etc.) but otherwise will ride the pine.

3) POB should have shown some potential by now.  I applaud him for waking up to hard work, but I really don't see the necessary talent.

It's very possible that POB shows steady improvement as a Celtic and then becomes trade fodder down the road, just like Delonte West, Ryan Gomes, etc.

I'm not the captain of the POB fan club here, but lets be fair...POB hasn't played enough NBA minutes "show some potential by now." If you aren't on the court you can't make a judgement one way or the other.

What POB did show in the NBADL was very encouraging, particularly rebounding and blocks...so he's definately showed talent when and where he's gotten PT...

I don't think that Nellie-ball is unsuited for him though, he is just as mobile as Biedrins, so the idea that he didn't play because he didn't fit is untrue...more likely it is because Biedrins was getting the time as the primary center and Nellie wanted to use a different type  of center off the bench...POB also wasn't as fundementally sound as Biedrins, so he got beat out for the one role requiring a player of that skill set...

[zerophase]

I've got nothing against POB, but there's several simple facts to keep in mind:

1) It took Perkins FIVE YEARS to be the serviceable center he is today.  (I like Perk, but that's still all he is.)  So don't expect C.Ray to perform miracles overnight.

2)  #1 above is made worse by the fact that POB will not get much playing time, at least not right away.  (This was also part of Perkins' problem early on.)  He certainly is not ahead of Leon Powe in the big man rotation and probably not Glen Davis either.  He might be used in very select situations like against taller centers (Z, Yao, etc.) but otherwise will ride the pine.

3) POB should have shown some potential by now.  I applaud him for waking up to hard work, but I really don't see the necessary talent.

It's very possible that POB shows steady improvement as a Celtic and then becomes trade fodder down the road, just like Delonte West, Ryan Gomes, etc.

I'm not the captain of the POB fan club here, but lets be fair...POB hasn't played enough NBA minutes "show some potential by now." If you aren't on the court you can't make a judgement one way or the other.

What POB did show in the NBADL was very encouraging, particularly rebounding and blocks...so he's definately showed talent when and where he's gotten PT...

I don't think that Nellie-ball is unsuited for him though, he is just as mobile as Biedrins, so the idea that he didn't play because he didn't fit is untrue...more likely it is because Biedrins was getting the time as the primary center and Nellie wanted to use a different type  of center off the bench...POB also wasn't as fundementally sound as Biedrins, so he got beat out for the one role requiring a player of that skill set...

correct me if i'm wrong but we didn't have clifford ray for all the 5 years perkins has been in town.

[liam]

I see this kid as a poor man's Ty Chandler. I think that would be great for this team.

[crownsy]

I've got nothing against POB, but there's several simple facts to keep in mind:

1) It took Perkins FIVE YEARS to be the serviceable center he is today.  (I like Perk, but that's still all he is.)  So don't expect C.Ray to perform miracles overnight.

2)  #1 above is made worse by the fact that POB will not get much playing time, at least not right away.  (This was also part of Perkins' problem early on.)  He certainly is not ahead of Leon Powe in the big man rotation and probably not Glen Davis either.  He might be used in very select situations like against taller centers (Z, Yao, etc.) but otherwise will ride the pine.

3) POB should have shown some potential by now.  I applaud him for waking up to hard work, but I really don't see the necessary talent.

It's very possible that POB shows steady improvement as a Celtic and then becomes trade fodder down the road, just like Delonte West, Ryan Gomes, etc.

neither leon or BBD is going to get many minutes at the 5, which is where POB's minutes come from.

he's not going to get a ton, but i bet 8-10 a night is right in line.

[Finkelskyhook]

Zerophase said:
correct me if i'm wrong but we didn't have clifford ray for all the 5 years perkins has been in town.

True.  No celtic young player developed under Rivers until Ray came on board.  Jefferson and Perk showed a night and day difference under Ray's tutelege.  Hopefully he can work his miracles with O'Bryant.  Jefferson had talnet which can't be taught.  He needed it refined and a work ethic.  Perk had the work ethic with less talent.  His progress after Ray came on board is very impressive.

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

If Clifford Ray can get a decent backup center's game out of POB in spite of all the negative predictions on this site, I think we should oficially dub him the "Miracle Worker".

If anyone can get POB to realize even 10% more of his potential it is Clifford Ray IMO.

I kinda wish we had given Kwame Brown a shot just to see what C-Ray could do with him.

No way! Kwame Brown has been cursed by Michael Jordan! Everyone knows that.

[Chris]

Zerophase said:
correct me if i'm wrong but we didn't have clifford ray for all the 5 years perkins has been in town.

True.  No celtic young player developed under Rivers until Ray came on board.  Jefferson and Perk showed a night and day difference under Ray's tutelege.  Hopefully he can work his miracles with O'Bryant.  Jefferson had talnet which can't be taught.  He needed it refined and a work ethic.  Perk had the work ethic with less talent.  His progress after Ray came on board is very impressive.

Perkins had come a LONG way well before Ray was here, as did Jefferson (although not nearly as much as Perk).  They just both took the next step when Ray was here...which also coincided when many players of their age start to take that next step.  I think Ray has done a great job...but lets not go crazy.

[Vermont Green]

I am sure that C-Ray is a very good mentor for young big men but I just don't see him being the key to whether or not POB starts to show some meaningful development.  Al and Perk have improved because they wanted it plain and simple.  I am sure that C-Ray contributed but either of these guys would have been able to figure it out whether they had C-Ray or big man coach.  I would think having a good big man coach is a good idea for any team and C-Ray is clearly a good big man coach.  I don't get the incinuation that some how these guys didn't develop under Doc.  Doc is a point guard.  In football, they have specialized coaches for every position.  This is just a little of that for basketball.  Doc should be worried about teaming a young big man how to rebound.

POB needs to first find it inside himself and to really want it.  If that happens, C-Ray will help too.  I don't know if POB is going to figure it out or not but I don't see any reason to give up on him just becasue someone else thinks he is lazy.  I am really looking forward to seeing him in preseason to see what he's got and will wait before I proclaim him a failure.

[Chris]

I've got nothing against POB, but there's several simple facts to keep in mind:

1) It took Perkins FIVE YEARS to be the serviceable center he is today.  (I like Perk, but that's still all he is.)  So don't expect C.Ray to perform miracles overnight.

2)  #1 above is made worse by the fact that POB will not get much playing time, at least not right away.  (This was also part of Perkins' problem early on.)  He certainly is not ahead of Leon Powe in the big man rotation and probably not Glen Davis either.  He might be used in very select situations like against taller centers (Z, Yao, etc.) but otherwise will ride the pine.

3) POB should have shown some potential by now.  I applaud him for waking up to hard work, but I really don't see the necessary talent.

It's very possible that POB shows steady improvement as a Celtic and then becomes trade fodder down the road, just like Delonte West, Ryan Gomes, etc.

neither leon or BBD is going to get many minutes at the 5, which is where POB's minutes come from.

he's not going to get a ton, but i bet 8-10 a night is right in line.

He is going to have to beat out BBD and Powe for those minutes.  Against most teams in the league, the C's can get by with a big man rotation of Perk, KG, BBD and Powe.  I think they would love it if O'Bryant earns those minutes, but unless he masters the defensive and offensive schemes, he will only be seeing meaningful minutes against the few teams when they really need another 7 footer (and there arent many).

[Neurotic Guy]

I have no doubt that POB will improve.  Any 22 year old that works hard will improve.  Centers, like PGs, tend to take a little longer to mature, and many young, lean, tall guys will significantly improve strength and coordination in their early twenties.  Two issues emerge:
1) Will he improve enough to help this team?
2) Don't we need an experienced back-up at the 5 to provide reliable, solid, error-free minutes? 

On this team, the role of back-up 5 should go to an experienced vet who can be relied upon.  Setting up POB in this role is likely a set-up for failure (at least this year) as he will make many mistakes.

Perhaps Leon will provide some C minutes, but I think that's a lot to ask of a guy who has to give up 5 inches to almost anyone he plays.   

C's need (and I think will get) a veteran back-up.