O'Bryant Working With Cliff Ray

[cdif911]

Wow, two 7'5"+ shot blocking, one dimensionsal guys and two lead footed cant run the floor beastisis to clog up the paint. Nice find(s) I am more than impressed, sir. TP4U, but who are these mysterious others?

Still, I will stay with the 'positive attitude, wait and see crowd' on POB.
 

others, Herb Williams with the Knicks played over 10 per game, there's plenty of tweener f/c types who were much more defensively oriented than offensively - A.C. Green (30 mpg in 97-98) , Scot Williams, Tyrone Hill, J.R. Reid (all 10-20 mpg under Nellie0) - I don't know the personnel of his Bucks teams enough to comment on his usage of players there

I think the stereotype about Nellie is wrong about him not using centers - yes he has used some crazy players at c at time - Tom Tolbert comes to mind, but he's not against a traditional or even a defensive center, as seen through his use of Patrick Ewing, Manute Bol, Bradley, Williams, Lister, etc.

[cdif911]

I should say I believe in second chances and a wait and see approach, but I haven't seen anything from him statistically or from the rare highlight clips to make me think he's the second coming of Robert Parish (or even Scot Pollard) - I'll be pleasantly surprised if he can play 10 mpg for us efficiently - but I want an insurance big man in case he can't

[Roy Hobbs]

Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but isn't Andris Biedrins a "defensive oriented center"?  Yes, he scores points, but literally 85% or so of his baskets come off of either assists or put back attempts.  He certainly couldn't be described as an offensive center.

[CoachBo]

Blaming Nelson for O'Blount's washout in GS is a copout that ignores his spotty performance in a mid-major conference.

If he was raw, that would be one thing. He isn't raw. He's lazy and unmotivated, and those are VERY difficult to undo as a coach. It drives me nuts as a coach to see someone who flatly doesn't care that they're being dominated by a mediocre opponent, and I saw that from O'Blount in college. If Ray makes anything useful out of him, he's a miracle worker.

[cdif911]

Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but isn't Andris Biedrins a "defensive oriented center"?  Yes, he scores points, but literally 85% or so of his baskets come off of either assists or put back attempts.  He certainly couldn't be described as an offensive center.

you are 100% right Roy, sometimes what we're looking for is right under our noses isn't it

[crownsy]

Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but isn't Andris Biedrins a "defensive oriented center"?  Yes, he scores points, but literally 85% or so of his baskets come off of either assists or put back attempts.  He certainly couldn't be described as an offensive center.

you are 100% right Roy, sometimes what we're looking for is right under our noses isn't it

Good finds, i admit, i didn't think there was one, but i forgot his 7'5 genetic freaks. TP4U

I'll stand by what i said though, i think nellie is a horrid coach for defensive centers, and I'm going to remain optomistic that in our system, he'll provide valuable back up minutes at the 5.

[billysan]

I think just maybe we are looking at this wrong. Maybe the center position is just not that important to Nellie ball. I have to say that most of the Centers listed above were not exactly 'key' or 'build around' type guys (with the exception of Ewing of course). I think Nellie is a 'run the floor' and 'attacking' type coach that uses the Center position in that fashion. A half court oriented or less 'fleet of foot' center would not flourish in Nellie Ball unless he had extremely good fundamentals and was an impact defensive player.

POB came out of school early and clearly has very weak basic basketball fundamentals. (Kendrick Perkins, Al Jefferson, Dwight Howard all fit this mold early on their career) This is where I think the tutelage, tough love and TLC from Clifford Ray may pay dividends. POB is so far, showing the same willingness to work as some of the previous pupils. Again, I am taking the positive approach.

[nickagneta]

Let me say first, and once again, that I know next to nothing about O'Bryant. What I don't understand is the label of "lazy" and "unmotivated" that is being applied to him. Where exactly do these labels come from? Where are you people getting these ideas?

Did Nellie label him that way?

I know there was a front office here in Boston that labeled Ben Wallace too small to be a center. I know that the Portland front office didn't originally think too highly of Jermaine O'Neal. Rick Pitino labeled Rick Fox unnecessary and easily replaced. This league is littered with players that a coach determined wasn't any good and was eventually proven wrong.

If people are unhappy with the O'Bryant acquisition your problem is with Ainge and his talent evaluation and his signing of O'Bryant. O'Bryant has done nothing to deserve the scorn being thrown his way. He could very easily work his butt off and develop into something here just as easily as he could fail. But to this point he hasn't failed yet.

Let's give the kid a chance before insultingly calling him the second coming of Mark Blount. He hasn't done anything to deserve it. If you have a problem maybe it's with Danny Deranged and not Mark O'Blount.

Of course, this could all prove out to be a lot of hate over very little. He might turn out okay and Danny might not look so deranged.

[cordobes]

Let me say first, and once again, that I know next to nothing about O'Bryant. What I don't understand is the label of "lazy" and "unmotivated" that is being applied to him. Where exactly do these labels come from? Where are you people getting these ideas?

Let's give the kid a chance before insultingly calling him the second coming of Mark Blount. He hasn't done anything to deserve it.

Well, he himself admits that he lacked work ethic in his NBA career so far. Mullin said that "he needs to work harder". Ainge said that Garnett's work ethic can be a good example for him. I believe that people are getting those ideas from this: his own, Mullin's and Ainge's remarks.

Yeah, I'd say I came in a little immature and didn't understand what the NBA was really about," he said. "I guess the light turned on, or whatever you want to call it, and now I see it takes a lot of work to be successful in the league."

He says that NOW he understands that it takes a lot of work to be successful. I certainly hope he does. But I can see why are people suspicious of someone who, till now, only talked the talk.

[billysan]

Let me say first, and once again, that I know next to nothing about O'Bryant. What I don't understand is the label of "lazy" and "unmotivated" that is being applied to him. Where exactly do these labels come from? Where are you people getting these ideas?

Let's give the kid a chance before insultingly calling him the second coming of Mark Blount. He hasn't done anything to deserve it.

Well, he himself admits that he lacked work ethic in his NBA career so far. Mullin said that "he needs to work harder". Ainge said that Garnett's work ethic can be a good example for him. I believe that people are getting those ideas from this: his own, Mullin's and Ainge's remarks.

Yeah, I'd say I came in a little immature and didn't understand what the NBA was really about," he said. "I guess the light turned on, or whatever you want to call it, and now I see it takes a lot of work to be successful in the league."

He says that NOW he understands that it takes a lot of work to be successful. I certainly hope he does. But I can see why are people suspicious of someone who, till now, only talked the talk.

Well, now he has been given the 'Golden Opportunity' with the reigning NBA champions, the best NBA bigman coach available (IMO), the security of a two year contract, a team who 'needs' a backup center, KG as an inspirational leader/motivator. If he just applies the hard work that is the only apparent 'missing ingredient' then he should develop into a serviceable backup NBA center.

I wish this kid the best, we could use a success story to get excited about.

[Newguy]

I'm actually really excited about P.O.  I think he'll get stronger by just playing against Perk, KG and Powe all the time.  If he can play 10 min/game this season and do a solid defensive job, this will be a good signing.

[lon3lytoaster]

wow Patty Cakes is here in the summer working out... And Rondo hasn't even worked on his jumpshot once. Nice. 

[BballTim]

Blaming Nelson for O'Blount's washout in GS is a copout that ignores his spotty performance in a mid-major conference.

If he was raw, that would be one thing. He isn't raw. He's lazy and unmotivated, and those are VERY difficult to undo as a coach. It drives me nuts as a coach to see someone who flatly doesn't care that they're being dominated by a mediocre opponent, and I saw that from O'Blount in college. If Ray makes anything useful out of him, he's a miracle worker.

  I haven't seen any of O'Bryant's college games, but I checked a bunch of his box scores and more often than not his stats were as good as or better than his opponents. I know stats never tell the whole story but if he's dominated by his opponents it would seem likely that you'd see it in the stats. Are you saying that he was dominated by opposing centers that didn't get more points and rebounds than him, or did I just happen across the wrong games in my perusal?

[nickagneta]

Let me say first, and once again, that I know next to nothing about O'Bryant. What I don't understand is the label of "lazy" and "unmotivated" that is being applied to him. Where exactly do these labels come from? Where are you people getting these ideas?

Let's give the kid a chance before insultingly calling him the second coming of Mark Blount. He hasn't done anything to deserve it.

Well, he himself admits that he lacked work ethic in his NBA career so far. Mullin said that "he needs to work harder". Ainge said that Garnett's work ethic can be a good example for him. I believe that people are getting those ideas from this: his own, Mullin's and Ainge's remarks.

Yeah, I'd say I came in a little immature and didn't understand what the NBA was really about," he said. "I guess the light turned on, or whatever you want to call it, and now I see it takes a lot of work to be successful in the league."

He says that NOW he understands that it takes a lot of work to be successful. I certainly hope he does. But I can see why are people suspicious of someone who, till now, only talked the talk.

That is one way I guess some people might get that idea but we aren't talking about a grizzled veteran here. We are talking about a 22 year old kid. He thought a certain effort would suffice and found out he was wrong.

At the ripe old age of 20, 21, and 22, I call that growing up, not being lazy. Realizing at age 21 and age 22 that you need to work harder and apply oneself more, I call maturing, not being formerly unmotivated.

I don't know how good an environment he had for development under Nellie. What I have read suggests that Nellie sent him to the NBDL and basically was of the opinion that the kid either had to dominate down there or was a failure.

What I haven't read was whether Nellie made sure he was getting the proper big league coaching, training, and instruction that is needed to give to any project. And he was a project. Golden State knew that when they drafted him. They knew he wasn't a polished, finished product. What I haven't read is anything detailing that he got the type of attention a project needs to get.

The lengths to which the Celtics went to train, teach, and mature Gerald Green are well documented. I haven't read any such effort having been attempted by Nelson. From what I have read, I get the feeling that Nelson didn't want any part of O'Bryant maybe from even before he was drafted.

I might be  reading way too much between the lines on the very little I have read on the subject, but I also might not be that wrong either. O'Bryant could have been doomed to fail under Nellie straight from the get go because Nellie didn't want him.

[cordobes]

Let me say first, and once again, that I know next to nothing about O'Bryant. What I don't understand is the label of "lazy" and "unmotivated" that is being applied to him. Where exactly do these labels come from? Where are you people getting these ideas?

Let's give the kid a chance before insultingly calling him the second coming of Mark Blount. He hasn't done anything to deserve it.

Well, he himself admits that he lacked work ethic in his NBA career so far. Mullin said that "he needs to work harder". Ainge said that Garnett's work ethic can be a good example for him. I believe that people are getting those ideas from this: his own, Mullin's and Ainge's remarks.

Yeah, I'd say I came in a little immature and didn't understand what the NBA was really about," he said. "I guess the light turned on, or whatever you want to call it, and now I see it takes a lot of work to be successful in the league."

He says that NOW he understands that it takes a lot of work to be successful. I certainly hope he does. But I can see why are people suspicious of someone who, till now, only talked the talk.

That is one way I guess some people might get that idea but we aren't talking about a grizzled veteran here. We are talking about a 22 year old kid. He thought a certain effort would suffice and found out he was wrong.

At the ripe old age of 20, 21, and 22, I call that growing up, not being lazy. Realizing at age 21 and age 22 that you need to work harder and apply oneself more, I call maturing, not being formerly unmotivated.

I don't know how good an environment he had for development under Nellie. What I have read suggests that Nellie sent him to the NBDL and basically was of the opinion that the kid either had to dominate down there or was a failure.

What I haven't read was whether Nellie made sure he was getting the proper big league coaching, training, and instruction that is needed to give to any project. And he was a project. Golden State knew that when they drafted him. They knew he wasn't a polished, finished product. What I haven't read is anything detailing that he got the type of attention a project needs to get.

The lengths to which the Celtics went to train, teach, and mature Gerald Green are well documented. I haven't read any such effort having been attempted by Nelson. From what I have read, I get the feeling that Nelson didn't want any part of O'Bryant maybe from even before he was drafted.

I might be  reading way too much between the lines on the very little I have read on the subject, but I also might not be that wrong either. O'Bryant could have been doomed to fail under Nellie straight from the get go because Nellie didn't want him.

Well, that's a possibility, I think. But to be honest I find it hard to believe that Don Nelson (and his coaching team) didn't attempt as hard as he could to develop O'Bryant, had a personal vendetta against him, was effortless coaching him or didn't give him enough attention due to not liking his basketball style or some other reason. POB was an asset for the Warriors franchise and that hypothetical attitude from Nelson would be highly unprofessional. I don't think someone so accomplished in his job like Don Nelson is something less than a consummate professional. Can happen in politics, not in pro basketball. And he never acted that way in the past: he developed C-Webb, for example, despite of not liking his style and all their clashes. And he's done a great work with Biedrins. The fact that they kept him for the 2nd year, not trading him - even for a 2nd round pick, for example - shows me that they were seriously trying to develop the kid. POB clearly doesn't fit Nelson's playing style, so I understand he may have had troubles finding playing time, for example (though that doesn't explain it all: Nellie played Foyle the season before and he signed DJ Mbenga, who are similar players to O'Bryant). And I completely agree that the "right environment" is important for a player to succeed - v.g. Billups. But I can't see that as an excuse to work less harder than he should.

I prefer to believe that it's a immaturity problem, as you say. But exclusively of his fault. The kid has been lazy and now he had an epiphany and understood he must work harder that he was used to. To some extent, it's happened to all of us at some point of our life, hasn't it?

I completely agree with billysan, btw: he's now in the best situation possible to be successful. A winning environment, great coaching, three superstars with great work ethic and leading skills. If he fails in this "Golden Opportunity", it will be because he indeed lacks the will to work or he lacks any kind of talent. Although I do agree with CoachBo when he says that laziness is very hard to cure, I think that an absolute lack of talent is absolutely lethal. So, I prefer to think that O'Bryant's lack of development so far has been caused by lack of work ethic.