Pierce is not better than Kobe! Period!

[Section301]

agree on pierce, kindly disagree on russell.

Say what?? Russell's 11 rings aren't enough to qualify him as a winner? 

[cdif911]

on offense and dunking shows kobe is better but pierce is still in the elite level.

On defense and other things like being a half decent teammate pierce is better

overall crown to pierce

actually I think Kobe is a much better defensive player than PP - Pierce is definitely an underrated defensive guy, but not to the point where he's at the level of, or better than Kobe Bryant.  As far as being a teammate goes, I think you're right - PP fits better in a team where he doesn't have to be "the man" night in and night out - it kills Kobe to not be the man... now this works to PP's advantage on a team where he has Antoine Walker (in his prime) or Ray Allen and KG surrounding him - not so much when there's no one around to help lead... Kobe on the other hand needs to be the best player on his team, and he is - he's 1 of the 2 best in the league (LBJ is right there IMO) - would he fit in here?  I honestly don't think so... does that make him worse than PP, I don't think so - PP had a much much much better supporting cast in the finals, which is why we won - someone still has to be MVP and he was

[Bankshot]

^ I disagree that Kobe is a much better defender than Paul.  While Kobe maybe locking people down in the Olympics, I don't see him doing it in the NBA.  He's an overrated defender in the NBA, imo.

[Fan from VT]

Hey fan4life,   I remember your name from the Lakers Top Buzz forums during the finals. They are true believers on their forums just as we are here. Overall they are very good fans. Kobe is skilled 4shur but it still is a team game.

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-15347.html#184612

Check out a little fun I had on LakersTopBuzz. You have to scroll up to get to the first post on their boards.

Haha I laughed so hard when i read this post.

"That was an obvious jab at Laker fans. Just look at his icon. Not funny."

I looked at your icon and died laughing. TP!

I would have thought it impossible, but it may be a fact that Lakers Bloggers are even worse at picking up sarcasm than Celtics Bloggers. Impressive.

[biggs]

In the video game world or fantasy sports (both fake) I would maybe draft Kobe first.  Just based on how cheaply and unrealistically he dominates in video games and how as a horrible team player he puts up huge individual stats in fantasy, but if this is real life you gotta go with Paul.  Why? Cause he is the truth

In all seriousness though yeah kobe is more athletic, but that doesn't make him a better player.  You could argue that all the little things (that scal supposedly does too) are more valuable than raw stats as a team player and Paul is one of the only players in the league that puts up huge numbers and does all the little things.

If kobe could just grow up he would be phenomenal.  I just don't ever see that happening.  And for the record I think Lamar Odom is way better than Antione ever was if you want to talk teammates.  Plus the league was fixed back then so who knows if any of kobe's rings are legit anyway.

This argument of Paul being the "best player in the world" is based mostly on his mental ability as a competitor, not his god given "beatlejuice on steroids" physique.  Paul even mentioned that when questioned saying it's a confidence thing.  So if you ask me is Paul a tougher person mentally?  Yes absolutely.  Is kobe even tough at all mentally? No.  

So to sum it all up in the real world I would take Paul in my draft all day.  In the virtual world kobe's the man.  Hey at least kobe can go home and dominate on his 360 right?

Oh yeah is there a way we can have separate ex lakers for the trolls as their names.  I mean it's funny to think this guy is only giddens and has one TP, but it would be cool if he could be like Kurt Rambis for example.  

[Birdbrain]

I think Kobe is a better player than Paul.  He's certainly more talented.

I think Paul outperformed Kobe in the playoffs, but Kobe has more of a track record of doing more with less.

I would much rather have Paul on my team, though.  He's a better person, and a better teammate.

right, this was what i was saying in my post, i understand and 100% agree with pierce being the better teamate and person, and wouldn't want kobe on my team for any reason, but the ones im refering to with blinders are those that argue pierce is better than kobe on a SKILL WISE level(which some do, and is ludacris, Kobe is more talanted, it doesn't make him better)

Skill wise, Paul is a better:
- defender
- passer
- rebounder
- team leader

And he is much more offensively efficient than Kobe, rarley taking upwards of 25 shots in a game.

Kobe is an athletic freak with a killer jumpshot and a flair for the dramatic.  Its a sign of the times, to conclude the better player to be the one who makes the spectacular plays on SportsCenter -- as oppose the player with the all-around game who evevated his team over Kobe's.

Both players in their prime met in the Finals and Paul was unstopable, while Kobe was pedestrian.

For the Harlem Globetrotters - you take Kobe Bryant --- For an NBA team - you take the better all around basketball player, Paul Pierce. 

Exactly, both skills wise and human being wise he's above Mr. Bryant.  This isn't some homer concept.  He's a better all around player.  Just because some of you can't rationalize that with all the publicity Kobe gets doesn't make it any less true.  The better player plays in Boston.  And please save the he made playoffs as some milestone because every team Kobe was on was better than every team Paul played on prior to this year.  The guy never made it out of the 1st round without Shaq before this season.  He's OVERRATED.

sigh, i give up.  some people are TOO blind even for my green glasses.

Again, paul is the better team basketball player, by far, and I would rather re-enact the disappearing pencil trick from the dark night (as the thug) then have him within 10 miles of a celtics uniform, but i still find this petty need by some people to tear every other non-celtic player down hilarious. I mean, if i put up a dwight howard is better than kendrick perkins" thread, i'm quite sure i could get one or two people to jump on board 


your right, i don't know how kobe made the NBA, clearly a stern level conspiracy.

Ugh yeah Perkins > Howard = Pierce > Kobe.  Not to keen in the logic department.

Let me be as clear I can be.  No matter how many times you state you think Kobe is better it won't change reality in my mind.  The better player is Pierce.  I'm pretty safe in my own basketball knowledge to disagree with anyone that thinks otherwise.  So you can hold the blinders or whatever other term you deem necessary to convince yourself that you're correct.

[cdif911]

I think Kobe is a better player than Paul.  He's certainly more talented.

I think Paul outperformed Kobe in the playoffs, but Kobe has more of a track record of doing more with less.

I would much rather have Paul on my team, though.  He's a better person, and a better teammate.

right, this was what i was saying in my post, i understand and 100% agree with pierce being the better teamate and person, and wouldn't want kobe on my team for any reason, but the ones im refering to with blinders are those that argue pierce is better than kobe on a SKILL WISE level(which some do, and is ludacris, Kobe is more talanted, it doesn't make him better)

Skill wise, Paul is a better:
- defender
- passer
- rebounder
- team leader

And he is much more offensively efficient than Kobe, rarley taking upwards of 25 shots in a game.

Kobe is an athletic freak with a killer jumpshot and a flair for the dramatic.  Its a sign of the times, to conclude the better player to be the one who makes the spectacular plays on SportsCenter -- as oppose the player with the all-around game who evevated his team over Kobe's.

Both players in their prime met in the Finals and Paul was unstopable, while Kobe was pedestrian.

For the Harlem Globetrotters - you take Kobe Bryant --- For an NBA team - you take the better all around basketball player, Paul Pierce. 

Exactly, both skills wise and human being wise he's above Mr. Bryant.  This isn't some homer concept.  He's a better all around player.  Just because some of you can't rationalize that with all the publicity Kobe gets doesn't make it any less true.  The better player plays in Boston.  And please save the he made playoffs as some milestone because every team Kobe was on was better than every team Paul played on prior to this year.  The guy never made it out of the 1st round without Shaq before this season.  He's OVERRATED.

sigh, i give up.  some people are TOO blind even for my green glasses.

Again, paul is the better team basketball player, by far, and I would rather re-enact the disappearing pencil trick from the dark night (as the thug) then have him within 10 miles of a celtics uniform, but i still find this petty need by some people to tear every other non-celtic player down hilarious. I mean, if i put up a dwight howard is better than kendrick perkins" thread, i'm quite sure i could get one or two people to jump on board 


your right, i don't know how kobe made the NBA, clearly a stern level conspiracy.

Ugh yeah Perkins > Howard = Pierce > Kobe.  Not to keen in the logic department.

Let me be as clear I can be.  No matter how many times you state you think Kobe is better it won't change reality in my mind.  The better player is Pierce.  I'm pretty safe in my own basketball knowledge to disagree with anyone that thinks otherwise.  So you can hold the blinders or whatever other term you deem necessary to convince yourself that you're correct.

If I were to start a franchise around 1 player, it would be neither.  PP needs other guys around him as leaders - Kobe can't handle having other guys around him.... both are flawed...but skill-wise Kobe has Pierce in basically every category - intangibles I give to PP

[CelticPride]

Blah blah blah blah. No rings without Shaq. Blah blah blah blah. Colorado anyone? Blah blah blah blah. Biggest choke in NBA finals history.

Seriously, people have been taking Pierce's comments out of context.
Who are his favorite players? His teammates. (What did you want him to say?)
Who do you think it the best? Me. This is all about confidence. What do you want him to say? I think Kobe is better than me? I think Lebron is better than me? Seriously, get real. I mean, his bling is much brighter than theirs.

Much. ado. about. nothing.

[Birdbrain]

I think Kobe is a better player than Paul.  He's certainly more talented.

I think Paul outperformed Kobe in the playoffs, but Kobe has more of a track record of doing more with less.

I would much rather have Paul on my team, though.  He's a better person, and a better teammate.

right, this was what i was saying in my post, i understand and 100% agree with pierce being the better teamate and person, and wouldn't want kobe on my team for any reason, but the ones im refering to with blinders are those that argue pierce is better than kobe on a SKILL WISE level(which some do, and is ludacris, Kobe is more talanted, it doesn't make him better)

Skill wise, Paul is a better:
- defender
- passer
- rebounder
- team leader

And he is much more offensively efficient than Kobe, rarley taking upwards of 25 shots in a game.

Kobe is an athletic freak with a killer jumpshot and a flair for the dramatic.  Its a sign of the times, to conclude the better player to be the one who makes the spectacular plays on SportsCenter -- as oppose the player with the all-around game who evevated his team over Kobe's.

Both players in their prime met in the Finals and Paul was unstopable, while Kobe was pedestrian.

For the Harlem Globetrotters - you take Kobe Bryant --- For an NBA team - you take the better all around basketball player, Paul Pierce. 

Exactly, both skills wise and human being wise he's above Mr. Bryant.  This isn't some homer concept.  He's a better all around player.  Just because some of you can't rationalize that with all the publicity Kobe gets doesn't make it any less true.  The better player plays in Boston.  And please save the he made playoffs as some milestone because every team Kobe was on was better than every team Paul played on prior to this year.  The guy never made it out of the 1st round without Shaq before this season.  He's OVERRATED.

sigh, i give up.  some people are TOO blind even for my green glasses.

Again, paul is the better team basketball player, by far, and I would rather re-enact the disappearing pencil trick from the dark night (as the thug) then have him within 10 miles of a celtics uniform, but i still find this petty need by some people to tear every other non-celtic player down hilarious. I mean, if i put up a dwight howard is better than kendrick perkins" thread, i'm quite sure i could get one or two people to jump on board 


your right, i don't know how kobe made the NBA, clearly a stern level conspiracy.

Ugh yeah Perkins > Howard = Pierce > Kobe.  Not to keen in the logic department.

Let me be as clear I can be.  No matter how many times you state you think Kobe is better it won't change reality in my mind.  The better player is Pierce.  I'm pretty safe in my own basketball knowledge to disagree with anyone that thinks otherwise.  So you can hold the blinders or whatever other term you deem necessary to convince yourself that you're correct.

If I were to start a franchise around 1 player, it would be neither.  PP needs other guys around him as leaders - Kobe can't handle having other guys around him.... both are flawed...but skill-wise Kobe has Pierce in basically every category - intangibles I give to PP

Yeah except for passing,rebounding and defense.  They shoot about the same but, Kobe can make some sick dunks dude.

[cdif911]

Yeah except for passing,rebounding and defense.  They shoot about the same but, Kobe can make some sick dunks dude.

If you think Kobe is just about dunks, I don't think you've watched the NBA in the last 10 years.  I absolutely hate, despise Kobe Bryant the individual, but I know he is a better individual basketball player than PP - but PP plays on a team, a team which was better than Kobe's... much like PP plays on a team that was better than Lebrons... would I take Lebron over PP everyday of the week? heck yes.

Note: Kobe has been all-defensive 1st team 6 times
PP: 0

Pierce hasn't even made it past all NBA 3rd team in his career... Kobe's been there 6 times.... Bryant is clearly the better player - not saying I like him better, I don't, but facts are facts
- as for rebounding and passing - guess who averaged more assists and rebounds per game last year...I'll give you one hint, his number isn't 34 - the funny thing is the one spot where you say they were even, PP actually has the advantage, his shooting numbers are better percentage wise, but I think part of that is Kobe ends up taking a bunch of bad shots because he is the offense of LA, vs. Pierce who fits into a better system

but yeah, Kobe is a better individual basketball player than Paul Pierce, to think otherwise is misguided and based on subjective analysis

[Birdbrain]

Just so were clear you believe if someone averages more assists or more rebounds their better at those skills?  Cause thats a pretty simplistic view of team basketball (which is what they play in the NBA).  Which of course doesn't take into account teammates of the players and wide variety of other things.  So we are starting off on completely different levels.  You read box scores I watch games.

One thing is for sure he can't guard Paul and Paul can guard him so whether he got some useless awards for guarding the rest of the league makes no difference to me.  Of course that's ignoring the fact that he's clearly overrated as a defender and didn't deserve any of those awards.  But again you agree with that assessment so of course you don't see it.

[BballTim]

Yeah except for passing,rebounding and defense.  They shoot about the same but, Kobe can make some sick dunks dude.

If you think Kobe is just about dunks, I don't think you've watched the NBA in the last 10 years.  I absolutely hate, despise Kobe Bryant the individual, but I know he is a better individual basketball player than PP - but PP plays on a team, a team which was better than Kobe's... much like PP plays on a team that was better than Lebrons... would I take Lebron over PP everyday of the week? heck yes.

Note: Kobe has been all-defensive 1st team 6 times
PP: 0

Pierce hasn't even made it past all NBA 3rd team in his career... Kobe's been there 6 times.... Bryant is clearly the better player - not saying I like him better, I don't, but facts are facts

  Clearly this is why Kobe destroyed Paul in the finals, right? Because there's no way those league-wide accolades would ever go to players on successful teams instead of players on struggling teams.

[cdif911]

Just so were clear you believe if someone averages more assists or more rebounds their better at those skills?  Cause thats a pretty simplistic view of team basketball (which is what they play in the NBA).  Which of course doesn't take into account teammates of the players and wide variety of other things.  So we are starting off on completely different levels.  You read box scores I watch games.

One thing is for sure he can't guard Paul and Paul can guard him so whether he got some useless awards for guarding the rest of the league makes no difference to me.  Of course that's ignoring the fact that he's clearly overrated as a defender and didn't deserve any of those awards.  But again you agree with that assessment so of course you don't see it.

SO the 100s of sportswriters and broadcasters who watch the game and vote for the awards got it wrong... and somehow you got it right...makes lots of sense - I give you stats to show you a players capacity within a system - I've watched enough Kobe and enough Paul to know who is the better INDIVIDUAL player.  You're 100% right, its a team game, and Paul is a better team player (even if he does average less assists) but Kobe is a better all around player - to simply say all he is is amazing dunks is pretty simplistic (to use your words)

the rest of the world realizes what kind of player Kobe is (and I don't even know why I'm defending him, I hate the dude) but for someone to come out and say Paul Pierce is his superior (besides Pierce himself, heck I want PP to think he's the best in the world) is a joke

[cdif911]

I'm going to leave this thread with one last point, as I can tell my arguing with a few others on here will get nowhere...

I'm sure there are plenty of Giants fans who think that Eli Manning is a better QB than Tom Brady because he won a Superbowl against Brady.  As a football fan (and not as a Patriots fan perse) I think most of us would agree that this isn't true.  But people will still make the argument and defend their guy because thats what he is, their guy...just like Paul Pierce.  I'd love to see if any non-celtics fans agree with Pierce's statement, because I think to an objective observer, he comes off as being way off base

[thedawg]

No, Pierce is not better than Kobe. Celtics won the title this year because of team spirit and Pierce was just one of the pieces on the roster to make that happen.  Throughou PP´s career he´s showed that he couldn´t take the team on his shoulders when needed like Kobe has done and correctly, he just isnt as good.  However, I like PP´s way of thinking.  He thinks the world of himself and therefore he goes the distance.