Who is the Backup 3? does anyone else NOT see a glaring weakness??

[Brendan]

One statement:  I believe (as of today) the bench has taken a significant step backwards. And signing Devean George (if it happens...I hope not) will do little if anything to change that. 

I think a lot of people feel this way - but remember that C's bench was assailed last offseason. I'm excited to see two guys Powe amd Tony Allen get a chance to play major minutes next year. Also having House and Allen signed for more money creates more flexibility in the trade market - so don't sleep on this roster yet.

[action781]

This is interesting.  The Globe has Bartelstein saying the C's are interested in Devean George:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2008/07/celtics_agree_t.html

Does Bartelstein represent every player in the league?

I was wondering that myself. Especially when he was trying to negotiate the money from the same MLE for both House and Posey.

http://hoopshype.com/agents/mark_bartelstein.htm

Bartelstein does represent an agent-leading 39 NBA players.  But he does not lead the agents in most salaries for his clients.  Arn Tellum represents 5 max contract players, with at least 4 of them undeserving.  I wouldn't want to do deals with him, he has a LOT of overpaid players.
http://hoopshype.com/agents.htm

[Rondoholic]

yeah, the thing i don't understand is i've been hearing that matt barnes is going to sign with phoenix for 1 year at 1.2 mil...after signing house and allen, we still have more than this available to offer him. i know, he isn't posey, but lets face it, there isn't another posey out there. barnes is younger, and actually appears to have a slightly more versatile game (consistent mid range jumper as well as slashing abilities, a 3 pt range, and good defense). then again, maybe we have talked to him, and he simply doesn't want to have to relocate to the east coast...who knows.

If Barnes was all that, he'd get a better contract than the vet minimum. He's going to make $1.2 million because the CBA makes impossible to pay him less.

Probably the most puzzling thing I found this off-season is the myth surrounding the quality of Matt Barnes. It's even funny. I like him, I appreciate the thoughness and the hustle, but slashing abilities? 3 pt range? defense? Scal is probably better than him at all those things.

No disrespect but you should probably watch Matt Barnes play before you make an assessment on him.  I don't know about defense because GS played no defense as a team but all he basically does is shoot threes.  And in addition, it's almost guaranteed that he has a better slashing, midrange game than Posey because Posey never shot anything besides wide-open layups and threes.  I wish we landed Barnes although the truth is he probably had no interest coming back east.  However, as much as I appreciated Posey this past year, I think it was the right move by Danny not to pay him.  His threes were huge but his defense has declined and will continue to decline in the next few years - there's no secret why Pierce was the man guarding Lebron and Kobe in the playoffs.

[tapper]

TA can guard the smaller 3s and with about 3 mil left on the MLE, Danny will sign a scrapper to use their 6 fouls and handle the bigger 3s. BTW don't rule out Walker or JR.

[drza44]

Honestly, unless LeBron comes back next season with a post-game TA is probably a better option for guarding him than Posey was.  LeBron almost always makes his moves off the face-up dribble drive.  He has always had more trouble with guys quick enough to cut him off than he has against slower guys that he can just go around.  And TA is strong enough to not just get bull-charged by LeBron, which is the danger with guarding him with guys that are too small. 

Now I wouldn't bet money on TA guarding LeBron full-time, but he should be fine against him (or as fine as any other back-up wing, including Posey) as the wing off the bench.

[Jon]

Honestly, unless LeBron comes back next season with a post-game TA is probably a better option for guarding him than Posey was.  LeBron almost always makes his moves off the face-up dribble drive.  He has always had more trouble with guys quick enough to cut him off than he has against slower guys that he can just go around.  And TA is strong enough to not just get bull-charged by LeBron, which is the danger with guarding him with guys that are too small. 

Now I wouldn't bet money on TA guarding LeBron full-time, but he should be fine against him (or as fine as any other back-up wing, including Posey) as the wing off the bench.

You know, that isn't a bad point.  Posey was a much better team defender than 1 on 1 defender last year (though of all the tough 1 on 1 matches he had last year, I think he did the best on LeBron, I thought he was weaker against Johnson, Hamilton, and Kobe who are all quicker).  Allen might do OK there.  He could conceivably even better Posey. 

My bigger question might be how Allen fits into the offense.  Allen has a good 1 on 1 game himself: he drives to the hoop fairly well.  But how often is Doc actually going to call his number when 2 or more of the Big Three are on the court with him.  Part of what makes House and made Posey so effective was that they could be threats on the court without running plays for them because of their outstanding shooting range.  With Allen, on the other hand, he's really only a danger when he has the ball in his hands.  Thus, he's far easier to cheat off of to help on Pierce, Ray, or KG.  That problem is compounded even more when Rondo's on the court too, as the defense now has 2 or even 3 (if you count whatever big is in the game) who they can all cheat off to help on the superstars. 

That's also why Giddens might prove to be a better fit.  I don't know much about him, but apparently he has better range than Allen, which might make him a better compliment to playing with the superstars. 

[KeepBigAl]

Worse case, I know a guy who will back up the 3 for the Vet Minimum.......Eric Williams

He is old, but can still hustle, play D and exhibit some Celtics Pride. We can make him promise to hug every starter before the tip, and he'll prob agree to it - he'd prob be willing to kiss them if we let him on the team.

[Jon]

In all honesty, E-Will or McCarty from 5 years ago would be great additions to this team.  Both played tough defense and could hit the outside shot.  That said, both have been done for years now. 

[colincb]

So we've substituted our 13th man, rookies, and TA to take over for our 6th man/backup 3?

Something smells about that idea. Dead fishy. Buried below a pile of horse dung. Covered by a cow pie. With whale excrement drizzled on top.

I could go on, but maybe DA's not finished.

[ForexPirate]

I think that it is conceivable that we can repeat with what Danny has done so far.  I think Danny rolls the dice now and brings in Darius Miles.  He is 6-9 and will take a minimum offer.  My guess is that Danny signs him for two years as well. It has many benefits - first - miles is a talent that may be ready to return and second - if he plays just 10 games, it would force his old salary of 8m back onto portlands books so that they aren't so far under the cap.  

[kozlodoev]

In all honesty, E-Will or McCarty from 5 years ago would be great additions to this team.  Both played tough defense and could hit the outside shot.  That said, both have been done for years now. 

You think Waltah played good defense, but are concerned about Tony Allen? Mind-boggling.

[bucknersrevenge]

Well, as much as I've complained about Tony Allen over the years and over the past few hours, I will say that the argument that he (or Giddens for that matter) can't guard LeBron is a fairly weak one.  As well as Pierce and Posey played against him last year, LeBron is still LeBron, and when he's hot, no one's going to stop him.  So to suggest that Tony Allen's height is going to do him in against him is probably not all that accurate because no one's really going to stop him. 

It's thinking like that that lead teams to draft large stiff after large stiff in the '90s to try to "stop Shaq."  All that lead to was an inordinate amount of large stiffs in the NBA because anyone who was big enough to bang with Shaq sure as heck wasn't quick enough to keep up with him, which made the point moot.  Worse yet, most of those big stiffs were so offensively challenged that it actually made things worse, as it gave Shaq the freedom to help off his man on the defensive end.  The worst aspect of all of that is you only have to face Shaq so many times a year, so teams were left with most of their games not even needing their big stiff, who did nothing but hurt them against other teams. 

LeBron's kind of like the Shaq of small forwards, given his size and strength.  While we can approach him like we have to stop him, we're probably better off just playing our game and trying to have the best possible players out there.  If Tony Allen can harass him to the best of his ability defensively and make LeBron work on the defensive end, he might do OK.

Still, I'd be interested in a guy like Darius Miles.  Not only does he have phenomenal length and size, he'd also is probably the only unrestricted free agent that has the clear cut talent to be our sixth man.  He'd be a risk, but even if he's only mediocre he'd probably be a better option than most of what's left out there. 

TP for post of the thread right here...

[Jon]

In all honesty, E-Will or McCarty from 5 years ago would be great additions to this team.  Both played tough defense and could hit the outside shot.  That said, both have been done for years now. 

You think Waltah played good defense, but are concerned about Tony Allen? Mind-boggling.

Walter was 6 inches taller with roughly the same quickness and could hit a three pointer.  That's about all he could do, but with three superstars, that's about all he needs to do. 

[greg683x]

Im not saying that Danny isnt going to sign anymore players before the offseason is over, but I dont think hes going to sign anyone thats going to really satisfy some of the stuff you guys are looking for.

Most people dont realize that Giddens does have a 6'11" wingspan, he definetly does have the ability to guard NBA SF's IMO.  However, he may not be ready to do it yet, just simply because of the experience factor. This is an 82 game season though everybody.  There is a lot young players can learn during the year, especially a player that spent 5 years in college.  Lots of adjustments can be made during the year, such as last year.  I brought this same topic, the guarding lebron topic, up on another board and got some good responses.

We play a team defense, and 70% of the battle with Lebron is keeping him in front of you, so height shouldnt be as big of an issue here as people are making it out to be.  Quick feet, and good hands come in to play and I think TA is good in those areas.  I think the only time height really comes into being an issue is to try and stop a player from getting his shot off.  Well, honestly, we want Lebron to take jumpers, especially forced ones because he cant get to the basket.  Tony might not be able to block his shot but hes tall enough to get a hand in his face and I think thats good enough right now.

Last year at times I think we started to try and solve problems before they even became problems, and we ended up making unnecessary moves (Cassell).  So I this might be something we should wait and see on.  This is a defense by committe team, and like everyone on the other board said, no one guy can stop Lebron, it has to be a team effort, and if Tom Thibedoux(sp?) leaves, then maybe we should start to worry more about Lebron.  Tracy Mcgrady said this was the best defense hes ever seen last year, and as much as some of us would like to think, that defense did not start and end with James Posey.  James Posey helped our team defense become great, just as much as our team defense made James Posey into an ELITE defender this offseason.

Sorry for the long post.

[JumpingJudkins]

Unrestricted free agents with size at small forward - Devean George, Ira Newble and Walter Herrmann.

I'd love to take a shot at Herrmann. He plays hard, he can hit the three, he hits the boards hard and he can play the 3 or the 4. I don't know if he can play a lick of defense, but I'd like to give him the chance.