Who is the Backup 3? does anyone else NOT see a glaring weakness??

[Chris]

I just worry about Tony Allen and Rondo on the court at the same time.  Sure, both are excellent penetrators, but as teams figured out with Rondo, if you just back off him a few steps, you take his penetration away and make him shoot a low percentage jumper.  I don't think it'll be too long before teams starting giving Tony this treatment too.  Put the two of them on the court together and you make it really easy for the other team to pack the lane and prevent the other Celtics on the court from making anything happen in the middle as well. 

Good point...although I don't expect it to happen too often.  And when it does, they will likely turn up the pressure and try to control the tempo of the game by being pests, and creating an up tempo game, so the defense doesn't have time to set up.

But it should happen, and often.  The reason we didn't see Tony Allen and Rondo on the court that much last year was because Allen didn't get many minutes.  But that should change this year.  Rondo will at least be playing 35 mpg this year and with Allen backing up both the 2/3, should at least see 25 mpg.  Their paths will cross frequently.

And while I agree defensively Rondo and Allen can be pests and consequently push the pace off turnovers, that also leads to another problem of Tony Allen's: turnovers. 

I'm not saying he can't put it together; players have certainly made bigger strides than what I'm calling for.  However, I am concerned. 

For one thing, I don't see Allen playing 25 minutes.  More 18-20.  Posey played 25 minutes per game last year, but a large portion of that was at PF.  Some of the minutes at the 2-3 will be eaten up by House/Pruitt, and possibly even Giddens or Walker.

Overall, I expect Allen to play maybe 5-10 minutes per game with Rondo, if even that much.  That is not enough time (especially during the regular season) for teams to really gameplan for them too much...especially if they push the tempo.

[Sweet17]

^ TA is going to play 20+ minutes a game. Ray Allen and PP both will need about 20 minutes of rest between them. Who else will get those minutes? Giddens - rookie. Scalabrine - sucks. Walker - overseas or not dressed. Danny hinted at this when he said TA is more effective during long stints. I expect him to play all the minutes Pierce is out (assuming he goes out first) and then all the minutes that RA is out. I think DA will try to keep Pierce or RA out there at all times rather then go with some horrid "second unit."

Pete

[Chris]

^ TA is going to play 20+ minutes a game. Ray Allen and PP both will need about 20 minutes of rest between them. Who else will get those minutes? Giddens - rookie. Scalabrine - sucks. Walker - overseas or not dressed. Danny hinted at this when he said TA is more effective during long stints. I expect him to play all the minutes Pierce is out (assuming he goes out first) and then all the minutes that RA is out. I think DA will try to keep Pierce or RA out there at all times rather then go with some horrid "second unit."

Pete

Like I said, I expect House (or Pruitt) to get some minutes at the SG (I think they really want to see what Pruitt has...and they are not paying House so much money to sit on the bench).  I also, absolutely think that Giddens or Walker will be playing minutes as well, especially early in the season.  And if neither of them pan out, I expect Danny to bring in someone else to take some minutes at the 3.

[Green Mountain]

I just worry about Tony Allen and Rondo on the court at the same time.  Sure, both are excellent penetrators, but as teams figured out with Rondo, if you just back off him a few steps, you take his penetration away and make him shoot a low percentage jumper.  I don't think it'll be too long before teams starting giving Tony this treatment too.  Put the two of them on the court together and you make it really easy for the other team to pack the lane and prevent the other Celtics on the court from making anything happen in the middle as well. 

Yet the problem with Rondo wasn't that they made him a jump shooter, it was that he wasn't ready to put the shot up, constantly hesitated to take the shot. This was more of a problem with poor decision making by Rondo and more of a confidence problem, than a lack of skill one. Those open shots he had during the playoffs he was draining with great consistency through all the season... Rondo simply showed his youth and inexperience in the playoffs; that's all it was. Also, Tony, more than Rondo, more often than not attacks the basket even when left open.

And this would be why he turns the ball over more than he should. He dribbles (term used loosely) with his head down half the time. I keep wondering how long we keep having to swallow the line about TA playing pg. I'd rather see Scal as the pg. At least he has basketball IQ.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I just worry about Tony Allen and Rondo on the court at the same time.  Sure, both are excellent penetrators, but as teams figured out with Rondo, if you just back off him a few steps, you take his penetration away and make him shoot a low percentage jumper.  I don't think it'll be too long before teams starting giving Tony this treatment too.  Put the two of them on the court together and you make it really easy for the other team to pack the lane and prevent the other Celtics on the court from making anything happen in the middle as well. 

Yet the problem with Rondo wasn't that they made him a jump shooter, it was that he wasn't ready to put the shot up, constantly hesitated to take the shot. This was more of a problem with poor decision making by Rondo and more of a confidence problem, than a lack of skill one. Those open shots he had during the playoffs he was draining with great consistency through all the season... Rondo simply showed his youth and inexperience in the playoffs; that's all it was. Also, Tony, more than Rondo, more often than not attacks the basket even when left open.

And this would be why he turns the ball over more than he should. He dribbles (term used loosely) with his head down half the time. I keep wondering how long we keep having to swallow the line about TA playing pg. I'd rather see Scal as the pg. At least he has basketball IQ.

Which is why usually I don't mind his turnovers... I like when he puts his head down and just goes straight to the rim. It's when he's doing nothing and dribbles off his foot that his turnovers make me cringe a bit, when he's going hard to the basket I really could care less to tell you the truth.  Notice that I never mentioned Tony as a PG, and it'll be very doubtful that he'll play much PG if any at all this year. I think Pruitt will get the other PG minutes just so that Danny can evaluate him better if for no other reason.

[guava_wrench]

^ TA is going to play 20+ minutes a game. Ray Allen and PP both will need about 20 minutes of rest between them. Who else will get those minutes? Giddens - rookie. Scalabrine - sucks. Walker - overseas or not dressed. Danny hinted at this when he said TA is more effective during long stints. I expect him to play all the minutes Pierce is out (assuming he goes out first) and then all the minutes that RA is out. I think DA will try to keep Pierce or RA out there at all times rather then go with some horrid "second unit."

Pete

Like I said, I expect House (or Pruitt) to get some minutes at the SG (I think they really want to see what Pruitt has...and they are not paying House so much money to sit on the bench).  I also, absolutely think that Giddens or Walker will be playing minutes as well, especially early in the season.  And if neither of them pan out, I expect Danny to bring in someone else to take some minutes at the 3.

We're gonna need a lot of overtimes to get them and the starters all playing time!

[celticmaestro]

Sorry to bring (another) old thread back, but my only real concern with this team is that Paul Pierce is playing 39.4 minutes per game so far this season. That's up from last year and the only thing I can attribute this to is the fact we don't have a back-up small forward. Obviously, the Posey situation has been well documented so I wont get into that, but 11 games in now and it's evident that we need an adequate back-up even if it's just to take a little of the load off of Pierce and give him a rest. If this continues, come playoff time he's sure to be burned out, and the worst part of all is that solutions don't seem forthcoming.

[Bankshot]

Sorry to bring (another) old thread back, but my only real concern with this team is that Paul Pierce is playing 39.4 minutes per game so far this season. That's up from last year and the only thing I can attribute this to is the fact we don't have a back-up small forward. Obviously, the Posey situation has been well documented so I wont get into that, but 11 games in now and it's evident that we need an adequate back-up even if it's just to take a little of the load off of Pierce and give him a rest. If this continues, come playoff time he's sure to be burned out, and the worst part of all is that solutions don't seem forthcoming.

Agreed.  The difference is definitely not having Posey.  We are struggling to beat teams we should be crushing because our bench isn't getting it done.  Eddie has come around finally, but Powe and Tony have been struggling the last few games and it seems that the only person on the bench with an outside shot to spread the floor is House.  I don't want to make this a Posey thread, since he's gone and we can't get him back, but unless Tony and Powe step up, I think we're in trouble.

Should the C's run some plays for Tony when he's in the game?  It seems that lately he barely touches the ball when he is in the game and we need his scoring.

[nickagneta]

Judging from last night the answer might be....Scal!! He was getting those minutes instead of Tony and considering Tony's play over the last 4 straight games I can't say I blame Doc for giving him a shot, even if it is a message to Tony that you either have to bring intelligence, effort and production every night or you will not be playing.

Bonzi Wells wouldn't be a horrible fit right now.

[celticmaestro]

Bonzi Wells wouldn't be a horrible fit right now.

He's only interested in money:

6. Bonzi Wells
Word around the league over the summer was that the 10-year veteran wouldn't consider signing for the veteran's minimum, and his phone never rang. And unless something changes this weekend, Wells is expected to sign early next week with a professional team in either Spain or China.

Link.

[guava_wrench]

Sorry to bring (another) old thread back, but my only real concern with this team is that Paul Pierce is playing 39.4 minutes per game so far this season. That's up from last year and the only thing I can attribute this to is the fact we don't have a back-up small forward. Obviously, the Posey situation has been well documented so I wont get into that, but 11 games in now and it's evident that we need an adequate back-up even if it's just to take a little of the load off of Pierce and give him a rest. If this continues, come playoff time he's sure to be burned out, and the worst part of all is that solutions don't seem forthcoming.

Agreed.  The difference is definitely not having Posey.  We are struggling to beat teams we should be crushing because our bench isn't getting it done.  Eddie has come around finally, but Powe and Tony have been struggling the last few games and it seems that the only person on the bench with an outside shot to spread the floor is House.  I don't want to make this a Posey thread, since he's gone and we can't get him back, but unless Tony and Powe step up, I think we're in trouble.

Should the C's run some plays for Tony when he's in the game?  It seems that lately he barely touches the ball when he is in the game and we need his scoring.

The problem with Tony is he can't finish. He continues to create great opportunities to score, but blows the layup. He tends to just throw the ball at the hoop, hoping it finds the net.

I worry about him complete losing confidence in his shooting ability. I feel like both he and Rondo are doubting their finishing abilities.

[feckless]

Tony Allen, Bill Walker and Giddens are too small to be legitimate 3's they are 2's--visibly shorter than Ray Allen--we have no true back-up 3--thus Scalabrine backing up PP to give us extra size when Paul sits--

this is a weakness and without a trade the answer is

While Tony replaces some of what Posey did-- he is still 5 or 6 (at least 4 or 5) inches shorter.

Where's Albert Kedrick Brown when you need him (he could play D)?

[Section301]

The reason that Pierece is playing 39.4 minutes a night is because these guys are either falling behind early or failing to close out games when they have the opportunity, forcing Pierce to have to stay on the floor and perform late-game heroics night after night.  Solve the problem of their lack of intensity in the opening quarter and lack of focus when leading by ten, and the question of Pierce's minutes becomes a moot point.  While I agree a backup 3 would be nice, I don't think the lack of one is the C's central problem right now.

[Cman]

Where's Albert Kedrick Brown when you need him (he could play D)?

Answer: The Anaheim Arsenal (at least that is where he was last year).

[cordobes]

Bonzi Wells wouldn't be a horrible fit right now.

What does Bonzi Wells bring to the table that Tony Allen can't offer? A little more offensive versatility and better passing, although his long-range jumper is nothing to write home about. But that skill, while useful, is upset by Tony's superior defense. Bonzi has a bigger body (largely because he's overweighted), but I can't think of any NBA player I'd rather have him guarding than Tony. Maybe some guys who like to post up.

Most importantly, they both suffer from similar problems: inconsistency and thinking that they're better than they actually are. They both belong to the category of players Bobby Knight would rip apart. Last season Byron Scott was forced to stop playing Wells once things got serious in the play-offs because he never knew what could happen with him on the floor. That's precisely what I fear about having Tony as the first swingman from the bench.

Bonzi replacing Tony? It would make sense, but I think Tony is the superior player at this point of their careers and this is not factoring Bonzi off-court and locker room problems. Both of them together? Redundant, I think.