Should we have sold the giddens pick?

[amenhotep04]

Giddens can play, and he'll play this year.  To sell the pick would have been foolish.  Good draft picks are the guys that fill up the stats line and carry their teams in college.  If he keeps his head straight, he'll be a great pick and contribute.  I'm not convinced he'll do that, but talent wise he should have gone much higher in the draft.

The Walker acquisition is a guy with potential and way more raw than Giddens.

Regardless, if the team continues its winning ways, at least one of those guys is going to be worth much more in possible trades (if needed) down the road, than they are now.

[jdub1660]

Let the kid play. We can't completely judge him yet, and he has no real trade value. put him to use and see how he fits in coming in behind pierce and/or a free agent signing soon

[bucknersrevenge]

Is giddens really gonna be any better than your average min vet swingman, this year or any time in the next 4 years? Also giddens will probably cost from my estimation an extra 2 million dollars salary wise over that time frame not taking into account luxury tax considerations. I’m pretty sure if danny thought we were getting bill walker in the 2nd with cash he would have sold the pick. I wonder if he can still sell the pick, although he won’t get as much for it, if he had sold it before we had used it.

  If they wanted Walker more than they wanted Giddens they would have drafted Walker with the 30th pick.

they did want walker more than giddens... but enter the business side of the nba. due to walker's health issues, they didn't want to guarantee him a contract.

  You know for a fact that they wanted Walker more than Giddens? Did Ainge or Rivers say that? Because there were 16 picks between Giddens and Walker and Walker could have easily been picked in that time. He obviously wasn't that high a priority for them.

in the post draft interview doc said the warroom was almost split right down the middle between giddens and "one other guy". but they didnt want to say who cuz they might still get him. obviously that guy was walker. i think what won jr out was his polish particularly at the defensive end over walker. not even so much the injuries. in every interview doc and danny have conducted about jr they have consistently said 2 things:

1) hes more mature now than he used to be.
2) hes a playmaker at both ends but especially the defensive end and he has plus athleticism and offensive skills as well.

while walker probably moreso has superstar written on him hes less polished at this point. though ill be honest i would not bet against BOTH players contributing at some point this year.

[goCeltics]

Is giddens really gonna be any better than your average min vet swingman, this year or any time in the next 4 years? Also giddens will probably cost from my estimation an extra 2 million dollars salary wise over that time frame not taking into account luxury tax considerations. I’m pretty sure if danny thought we were getting bill walker in the 2nd with cash he would have sold the pick. I wonder if he can still sell the pick, although he won’t get as much for it, if he had sold it before we had used it.

  If they wanted Walker more than they wanted Giddens they would have drafted Walker with the 30th pick.

I never stated that they wanted walker more than giddens, I stated that they would prefer to have walker and pay him as a 2nd rounder, about 1 mil for 2 years than have giddens and pay him as the 30th pick which is about 5 mill for the next 4 years.

What I was thinking is that they had the 2 of them pretty evenly matched, with giddens just slightly ahead. This is from what I heard from the post draft interviews by ainge and doc.

[cordobes]

I'm not sure on how to interpret the question.

Taking it literally, it's too soon to answer, isn't it? If the kid busts, we should have sold it; if not, we did well keeping it.

Generally, it's not smart to sell draft picks unless for strict financial reasons. Phoenix takes a lot of heat, but they probably need to do it in order to keep a high pay-roll and still make money.

Personally, I wouldn't have sold it, because there were still players that I like enough to give a guaranteed contract available (Chalmers, for example; although I don't know a good bunch of the draftees, including Giddens). I believe the FO followed the same rationale. If they had felt that among the players still available none had a good chance of contributing, they would have sold it.

If Giddens doesn't become more than the average min vet swingman during his entire career, the pick was wasted. If he performs like an average min vet swingman next season, it was probably a good decision to keep the pick and draft him. At this moment, we don't know. From what I've read, it's not wild to expect that Giddens becomes a reliable and solid rotation guy, a >LLE <MLE type of player. If that happens, it was a good draft.

For the record, IMO it's unrealistic to expect that any of our picks becomes a superstar. My Giddens' prediction is based on where he was drafted, but Walker would need to improve drastically. 

[bucknersrevenge]

I'm not sure on how to interpret the question.

Taking it literally, it's too soon to answer, isn't it? If the kid busts, we should have sold it; if not, we did well keeping it.

Generally, it's not smart to sell draft picks unless for strict financial reasons. Phoenix takes a lot of heat, but they probably need to do it in order to keep a high pay-roll and still make money.

Personally, I wouldn't have sold it, because there were still players that I like enough to give a guaranteed contract available (Chalmers, for example; although I don't know a good bunch of the draftees, including Giddens). I believe the FO followed the same rationale. If they had felt that among the players still available none had a good chance of contributing, they would have sold it.

If Giddens doesn't become more than the average min vet swingman during his entire career, the pick was wasted. If he performs like an average min vet swingman next season, it was probably a good decision to keep the pick and draft him. At this moment, we don't know. From what I've read, it's not wild to expect that Giddens becomes a reliable and solid rotation guy, a >LLE <MLE type of player. If that happens, it was a good draft.

For the record, IMO it's unrealistic to expect that any of our picks becomes a superstar. My Giddens' prediction is based on where he was drafted, but Walker would need to improve drastically. 

i dont know if this comment was directed towards me but since i did use the term i will clarify my position. saying "hes got superstar written over him" is probably poor phrasing considering our last would-be superstar gerald green. better to say walker is maybe the one with the higher upside potential but i agree walker would have to show a lot to get to a point where we're talking about him in those terms.

[hwangjini_1]

interesting thread so far. it seems to be moving towards a "will the kids be busts or booms or inbetween"? the trouble with such a thread, as was pointed out above, is that we wont know for years, so let's be patient.

i have a slightly difference question about whether or not the draft position of giddens and walker tells much about their eventual careers in the nba.

giddens was #30 of the first round since he has a personal history that rivals artest and other nut cases.

walker was picked way into the 2nd round because his knees might fall off at any time.

fine, but my question is this.... if giddens had come out of college with a reputation of being a solid citizen, and if walker had never had physical problems.....

where would they have been selected in this draft?

[Who]

They definitely should not have sold the pick. There were several really good choices to add to the roster.

[billysan]

I'm not sure on how to interpret the question.

Taking it literally, it's too soon to answer, isn't it? If the kid busts, we should have sold it; if not, we did well keeping it.

Generally, it's not smart to sell draft picks unless for strict financial reasons. Phoenix takes a lot of heat, but they probably need to do it in order to keep a high pay-roll and still make money.

Personally, I wouldn't have sold it, because there were still players that I like enough to give a guaranteed contract available (Chalmers, for example; although I don't know a good bunch of the draftees, including Giddens). I believe the FO followed the same rationale. If they had felt that among the players still available none had a good chance of contributing, they would have sold it.

If Giddens doesn't become more than the average min vet swingman during his entire career, the pick was wasted. If he performs like an average min vet swingman next season, it was probably a good decision to keep the pick and draft him. At this moment, we don't know. From what I've read, it's not wild to expect that Giddens becomes a reliable and solid rotation guy, a >LLE <MLE type of player. If that happens, it was a good draft.

For the record, IMO it's unrealistic to expect that any of our picks becomes a superstar. My Giddens' prediction is based on where he was drafted, but Walker would need to improve drastically. 

i dont know if this comment was directed towards me but since i did use the term i will clarify my position. saying "hes got superstar written over him" is probably poor phrasing considering our last would-be superstar gerald green. better to say walker is maybe the one with the higher upside potential but i agree walker would have to show a lot to get to a point where we're talking about him in those terms.

Actually, if you just listened to the media hype, Bill Walker has had the superstar 'potential' tag for a while. I watching a couple of televised games this year with him playing at K State, I liked what I saw a lot. I got the impression there was some reason, most likely injury history, that he was so low on the draft boards. I think we got a raw, but very talented young man in Bill Walker. With the rep for hard work he certainly has the tools to become a 'steal' in the draft. I wouldnt be surprised to see him on the court after the All Star break if not sooner. I dont see a Gabe Pruitt learning curve for this guy, but that's just me.

JR is another matter. I have seen very little of him on the court, mostly highlights and youtube. I worry about his maturity based soley on reputation, but I dont think Danny takes him if that is a really big issue. Young guys make mistakes, if he is competitive and passionate about this game that would explain a lot. The talent certainly seems to be there anyway.

I, like others have said may have taken Chalmers or CDR at the 30th pick if I wanted a guard. I fully expected Danny to go big with a Nathan Jawai or Devon Hardin type player.

[bucknersrevenge]

I'm not sure on how to interpret the question.

Taking it literally, it's too soon to answer, isn't it? If the kid busts, we should have sold it; if not, we did well keeping it.

Generally, it's not smart to sell draft picks unless for strict financial reasons. Phoenix takes a lot of heat, but they probably need to do it in order to keep a high pay-roll and still make money.

Personally, I wouldn't have sold it, because there were still players that I like enough to give a guaranteed contract available (Chalmers, for example; although I don't know a good bunch of the draftees, including Giddens). I believe the FO followed the same rationale. If they had felt that among the players still available none had a good chance of contributing, they would have sold it.

If Giddens doesn't become more than the average min vet swingman during his entire career, the pick was wasted. If he performs like an average min vet swingman next season, it was probably a good decision to keep the pick and draft him. At this moment, we don't know. From what I've read, it's not wild to expect that Giddens becomes a reliable and solid rotation guy, a >LLE <MLE type of player. If that happens, it was a good draft.

For the record, IMO it's unrealistic to expect that any of our picks becomes a superstar. My Giddens' prediction is based on where he was drafted, but Walker would need to improve drastically. 

i dont know if this comment was directed towards me but since i did use the term i will clarify my position. saying "hes got superstar written over him" is probably poor phrasing considering our last would-be superstar gerald green. better to say walker is maybe the one with the higher upside potential but i agree walker would have to show a lot to get to a point where we're talking about him in those terms.

Actually, if you just listened to the media hype, Bill Walker has had the superstar 'potential' tag for a while. I watching a couple of televised games this year with him playing at K State, I liked what I saw a lot. I got the impression there was some reason, most likely injury history, that he was so low on the draft boards. I think we got a raw, but very talented young man in Bill Walker. With the rep for hard work he certainly has the tools to become a 'steal' in the draft. I wouldnt be surprised to see him on the court after the All Star break if not sooner. I dont see a Gabe Pruitt learning curve for this guy, but that's just me.

JR is another matter. I have seen very little of him on the court, mostly highlights and youtube. I worry about his maturity based soley on reputation, but I dont think Danny takes him if that is a really big issue. Young guys make mistakes, if he is competitive and passionate about this game that would explain a lot. The talent certainly seems to be there anyway.

I, like others have said may have taken Chalmers or CDR at the 30th pick if I wanted a guard. I fully expected Danny to go big with a Nathan Jawai or Devon Hardin type player.

right i dont think im disagreeing with you here billy. just stating that while i realize hes had that tag for a minute, there are obviously no assurances on him at this point thats all. i liked chalmers but not that much. still think nobodys talking about him that much if he doesnt hit that shot regardless of what skill he may or may not have. he seriously boosted his rep after that shot.

[billysan]

right i dont think im disagreeing with you here billy. just stating that while i realize hes had that tag for a minute, there are obviously no assurances on him at this point thats all. i liked chalmers but not that much. still think nobodys talking about him that much if he doesnt hit that shot regardless of what skill he may or may not have. he seriously boosted his rep after that shot.

Very true about Chalmers. As to Walker, we can hope and be patient, that's about it. I have good feelings about him for whatever that's worth. At that position in the draft I guess there will always be a lot of second guessing because odds are, the player doesnt make an impact at all.

I think we have two excellent chances to do just that.

[slamdunk]

The bright side for Phoenix selling their picks is that they are an attractive destination for free agents. Even if they don't have young players coming up they could always sign somebody. The Celtics don't have that luxury.

Who would buy the pick?

The last pick of the first round is one of the least valuable picks in the draft because it means a guaranteed contract for a borderline player.

Teams would rather have the first few picks of the second round than the last pick of the first.

Seattle and Chicago were willing to buy the pick. The Celtics didn't do it because they prefered to get a future first instead.

[kozlodoev]

while walker probably moreso has superstar written on him hes less polished at this point. though ill be honest i would not bet against BOTH players contributing at some point this year.

If we can get as much from Giddens and Walker as we got from Davis and Powe last year, I'd be happy. I also think it is a realistic scenario, especially after Posey's departure.

[I am... a brain doctor]

I think J.R. might be worth more as a trade-chip than cash. Since he is still unsigned, I think the C's can put him in a package with some other players without having to wait. Hopefully a trade involving J.R., Davis (or Powe), and Gabe can be made to get a Posey replacement. My wish is for Julian Wright, but I think the Hornets are high on him (even with Posey in town) and could probably do better than to give him up for what we have. Still fun to dream...

[cordobes]

I'm not sure on how to interpret the question.

Taking it literally, it's too soon to answer, isn't it? If the kid busts, we should have sold it; if not, we did well keeping it.

Generally, it's not smart to sell draft picks unless for strict financial reasons. Phoenix takes a lot of heat, but they probably need to do it in order to keep a high pay-roll and still make money.

Personally, I wouldn't have sold it, because there were still players that I like enough to give a guaranteed contract available (Chalmers, for example; although I don't know a good bunch of the draftees, including Giddens). I believe the FO followed the same rationale. If they had felt that among the players still available none had a good chance of contributing, they would have sold it.

If Giddens doesn't become more than the average min vet swingman during his entire career, the pick was wasted. If he performs like an average min vet swingman next season, it was probably a good decision to keep the pick and draft him. At this moment, we don't know. From what I've read, it's not wild to expect that Giddens becomes a reliable and solid rotation guy, a >LLE <MLE type of player. If that happens, it was a good draft.

For the record, IMO it's unrealistic to expect that any of our picks becomes a superstar. My Giddens' prediction is based on where he was drafted, but Walker would need to improve drastically. 

i dont know if this comment was directed towards me but since i did use the term i will clarify my position. saying "hes got superstar written over him" is probably poor phrasing considering our last would-be superstar gerald green. better to say walker is maybe the one with the higher upside potential but i agree walker would have to show a lot to get to a point where we're talking about him in those terms.

Actually, if you just listened to the media hype, Bill Walker has had the superstar 'potential' tag for a while. I watching a couple of televised games this year with him playing at K State, I liked what I saw a lot. I got the impression there was some reason, most likely injury history, that he was so low on the draft boards. I think we got a raw, but very talented young man in Bill Walker. With the rep for hard work he certainly has the tools to become a 'steal' in the draft. I wouldnt be surprised to see him on the court after the All Star break if not sooner. I dont see a Gabe Pruitt learning curve for this guy, but that's just me.

JR is another matter. I have seen very little of him on the court, mostly highlights and youtube. I worry about his maturity based soley on reputation, but I dont think Danny takes him if that is a really big issue. Young guys make mistakes, if he is competitive and passionate about this game that would explain a lot. The talent certainly seems to be there anyway.

I, like others have said may have taken Chalmers or CDR at the 30th pick if I wanted a guard. I fully expected Danny to go big with a Nathan Jawai or Devon Hardin type player.

right i dont think im disagreeing with you here billy. just stating that while i realize hes had that tag for a minute, there are obviously no assurances on him at this point thats all. i liked chalmers but not that much. still think nobodys talking about him that much if he doesnt hit that shot regardless of what skill he may or may not have. he seriously boosted his rep after that shot.

bucks, it wasn't directed towards anyone in particular, just stating my opinion. He has upside, of course, but I don't see a clear superstar upside. Why do you think he has that? IMO, he's athletic - strength and leaping ability, mostly -, but he's not an athletic freak for NBA standards - not even in his draft class; Alexander, for example is way more athletic (and taller) than Walker. He doesn't have a great first step, doesn't have a reliable jump-shot, he's not a great defender, he's not a great passer... Most of his scoring come from power drives and post plays that he won't be able to use so much in the NBA. The only thing I see that can make him special is the (alleged) hunger and desire to be great. But that's a long shot.

I don't think Chalmers is going to be a superstar and the finals shot has nothing to do with why I like him - I don't expect him to make many big shots in his NBA career. I think Chalmers' ceiling is Gerald Henderson, for example. Same kind of PG. He's not going to be great, but he'll be useful to many teams. I would take that kind of player with a 30th pick every draft. More than half of the players picked in that range don't play many NBA games.

CDR would need the right system to be a good NBA player. He lacks quickness and explosiveness, as well as experience playing with screens. Not sure if he can create his own shot, his hands aren't the strongest either. He's in a good situation though.