WEEI: Unnamed team willing to offer Posey 4th year

[CoachBo]

Look, I can see the other side of the argument. And if Danny eventually does land Posey and his playing hardball helps the team....great.

But if they lose out on Posey over what is relative peanuts in today's NBA....during a rare time in a team's history that they have an actual chance to contend for a title for 3-4 years...to me, that is a horrible miscalculation.

Fiscal responsibility is fine when discussing whether teams should give guys like Andrew Bogut $72.5 million. Quibbling over a few million over an important piece of a championship team just doesn't make sense to me.

Good points. It makes no sense to me, either. If Posey walks in the next day or two, combined with the inexplicable signing of a lazy, unmotivated center, the off-season is off to a terrible start.

[Cman]

Danny Ainge must think DYNASTY. We are going to contend until Ray Allen Retires and Pierces contract runs out. I expect KG to play until he cant take it anymore so I'm not worried about him. We are in a good financial situation for the future. Poseys big contract would keep us with a LOT less cap room and he could be really hard to move if he ever really fell off. Posey needs to realize he could help this team hang banners for years to come. When the big contracts come to and end I expect the Big 3 to sign on for cheaper deals allowing us to sign a BIG FA at just the right time to keep our team competitive.

How? We won't have cap room next off-season. We won't have cap room in 2010. We may have cap room in 2011 (although I highly doubt it), if we renounce to Pierce and Posey (if he signs the 3 year contract). And that means more $6M in space. But if he signs a 4 year one, it's an expiring that will be easily trade that exact same off-season. I'm having trouble seeing how a 3 year contract gives us so much more salary flexibility than a 4 year one.

Where do you get the $6 million dollar figure?

If the C's resign Rondo to a moderate deal, resign one or two of the other young guys, but don't sign anyone else to massive deals, they are looking at significant cap room in 2011.

IF.  That is a big IF.  Also, not just Rondo but Perkins.  And what about Ray and PP?  True they won't get anything close to their current deals, but if the Cs want them back, they will get something....

[timepiece33]

I have no problem with the concept of financial prudence.  Just let me know who we are going to fill the bench with, because I don't see great options right now that are better than a bench led by Posey. 

There has to be a BALANCE of financial prudence and the knowledge that the window on the Big 3 not that long

[Sweet17]

^^^ I don't understand how Posey went from 3.5Million roleplayer to some amazing player we cannot replace.
Off the top of my head..

Guys better then Posey - Josh Childress, Luol Deng, Bonzi Wells, Iggy,

Equivalent to slightly inferior - Matt Barnes, Quinton Ross, Mo Evans, Ricky Davis, Delfino, CJ Miles.

Remember Posey put up 7ppg and 4rebounds. Yes I know good defense but some of these other swingman can play D too..and the ones that can't are usually better scorers.

Pete

[cordobes]

Danny Ainge must think DYNASTY. We are going to contend until Ray Allen Retires and Pierces contract runs out. I expect KG to play until he cant take it anymore so I'm not worried about him. We are in a good financial situation for the future. Poseys big contract would keep us with a LOT less cap room and he could be really hard to move if he ever really fell off. Posey needs to realize he could help this team hang banners for years to come. When the big contracts come to and end I expect the Big 3 to sign on for cheaper deals allowing us to sign a BIG FA at just the right time to keep our team competitive.

How? We won't have cap room next off-season. We won't have cap room in 2010. We may have cap room in 2011 (although I highly doubt it), if we renounce to Pierce and Posey (if he signs the 3 year contract). And that means more $6M in space. But if he signs a 4 year one, it's an expiring that will be easily trade that exact same off-season. I'm having trouble seeing how a 3 year contract gives us so much more salary flexibility than a 4 year one.

Where do you get the $6 million dollar figure?

If the C's resign Rondo to a moderate deal, resign one or two of the other young guys, but don't sign anyone else to massive deals, they are looking at significant cap room in 2011.

IF.  That is a big IF.  Also, not just Rondo but Perkins.  And what about Ray and PP?  True they won't get anything close to their current deals, but if the Cs want them back, they will get something....

Yeps, it's possible but not very likely (though Perkins will still be under his current cheap contract). But that would probably mean that we wouldn't be contenders by that time; generally teams who get significant cap space aren't very good, contenders operate over the cap. I wouldn't be surprised, because I believe our best chance of winning is in the next 2 years. That's why I think that we should go for the best FA available now.

The $6 million is (aprox.) Posey's salary if he signs for the MLE minus half a million to sign Walker.

[Jon]

Let me say this very specifically: losing Posey over a fourth year is insane.  It makes no sense whatsoever.  Very rarely do teams have an opportunity to win a title.  Moreover, titles often come down to the little things.  Posey covers that.  To risk not winning another title or two over the next two years to free up cap space 4 years from now is absolutely insane. 

1) The rebuilding effort might be a total bust.  Most are.  For every 10 teams that try to rebuild 9.75 of them don't win a title. 

2) Everyone talks about 2011 like it must be our big free agent year.  First of all, it's very likely Pierce is extended, eliminating that possibility.  Second of all, relying on a free agent to come is very risky business.  Plenty of teams have done that and got burned.  Finally, why can't 2012 be the big year?  Garnett comes off the books as well as Posey if he gets 4 years.  Financial flexibility is not a must for 2011. 

Boston fans have been spoiled by the Sox and Pats, but the Celtics cannot be compared.  Both the Sox and Pats had a fairly young nucleus when the won titles and could afford to be patient.  The Celtics can't.  They have a very narrow time frame to win.  And outside of Rondo, they have very little concrete hope for the future. 

[timepiece33]

Guys better then Posey - Josh Childress, Luol Deng, Bonzi Wells, Iggy,

Equivalent to slightly inferior - Matt Barnes, Quinton Ross, Mo Evans, Ricky Davis, Delfino, CJ Miles.

To start with ... Josh Childress, Luol Deng, and Andre Iguadola are restricted free agents and the chance that their team doesn't match at the MLE is about the same as Roseanne Barr appearing in a Victoria Secrets catalog.  Why even bring them up?  It is kind of like the Corey Maggette fallacy. 

Now, let's go over your list

NO
Bonzi Wells - Have you watched a basketball game in the past two years?  Wells has regressed badly and has a reputation of being in bad shape/a cancer.  He does atleast try on defense, but gets exposed badly by anyone with a decent first step.

Matt Barnes - Tweener PF/SF whose slow feet makes him a poor defensive player.  Plus, he has a history of bad turnover problems.  He was useful in Don Nelson's system, but is a poor fit for this one.

Quentin Ross - Nice defender, great athlete.  Now if we can overcome the lack of any offensive game.  The guy is basically as close to useless on the offensive side of the ball.

MAYBE

Ricky Davis - OK ... now we got a player in the same category of talent.  IMO, probably a more complete offensive talent.   That said, he is a cancer that has been on several teams and his defensive effort is seriously questionable

Mo Evans - No ball handling skills with a decent outside shot.  Unfortunately, a very limited inside game and not a finisher at all.  Of the names you mentioned, he might be the best of a weak group.

Carlos Delfino - OK I like his defense, but his lack of an outside shot hurts. 

C.J. Miles - Liked his improvement in year 3 and looks like a nice young player who wants to return to Utah.

[cordobes]

Bonzi Wells - Have you watched a basketball game in the past two years?  Wells has regressed badly and has a reputation of being in bad shape/a cancer.

Someone will say "KG will light him up and make him behave".

Matt Barnes - Tweener PF/SF whose slow feet makes him a poor defensive player.

Someone will say "he'd do better in Thib's system".

[Fan from VT]

There is a small chance that if Atlanta re-signs Smith and we offer Childress the full MLE for 5 years, Atlanta won't match because they'd have just resigned Smith and they'd have a lot of money committed to Bibby, Johnson, and Smith (with Johnson and Smith playing the same position as him) and also keeping in mind they're building around Horford, and there management is notoriously inept and cheap. They'd only have 7 days to match; if they squabble for longer than that he'd be ours. If we could pry Childress away for 5 years at the MLE, that would be a major pickup.

[goCeltics]

Marc Spears says teams are trying to clear salary to reduce luxury tax they'll owe before offering posey $$$.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/07/12/celtics_get_their_big/

Also note that apparently in an other report the Knicks were interested in Wally world, putting two and two together, if the cavs can dump some $$$ on the Knicks they may be more willing to offer posey more

[Roy Hobbs]

Marc Spears says teams are trying to clear salary to reduce luxury tax they'll owe before offering posey $$$.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/07/12/celtics_get_their_big/

Also note that apparently in an other report the Knicks were interested in Wally world, putting two and two together, if the cavs can dump some $$$ on the Knicks they may be more willing to offer posey more

Presumably, though, wouldn't the Cavs have to bring back nearly equal salary in any deal?

I love the idea of the Cavs wasting one of their few trade chips, though.  While people overestimate the value of expiring contracts, in this case those contracts are really the only hope the Cavs have of improving in the foreseeable future.  If they would like to cash those in to make a run at Posey, more power to them.

[SShoreFan 2.0]

From Today's Herald:

Meanwhile, the Posey watch continues.

The Celtics appear to be fairly set in their stance, reportedly not willing to go more than three years at the mid-level for the key reserve.

“I know that James likes Boston and we like James,” said Ainge, “but I don’t know where we stand with what other teams are offering him.”

And just to answer an oft-asked e-mail question from fans, the NBA - unlike the NFL - does not allow its players to restructure contracts and free up money for others. Thus, Kevin Garnett cannot give back some of his millions to make more cash available for Posey.

[nickagneta]

There is a small chance that if Atlanta re-signs Smith and we offer Childress the full MLE for 5 years, Atlanta won't match because they'd have just resigned Smith and they'd have a lot of money committed to Bibby, Johnson, and Smith (with Johnson and Smith playing the same position as him) and also keeping in mind they're building around Horford, and there management is notoriously inept and cheap. They'd only have 7 days to match; if they squabble for longer than that he'd be ours. If we could pry Childress away for 5 years at the MLE, that would be a major pickup.

I've said this in another thread a while back and agree completely. The problem is this move might need to be put on the back burner until someone offers Smith that big contract. Once they do I think you will be seeing teams left and right offering Childress a 5 yr full MLE and see which the Hawks decide to keep, Smith, Childress or both.

[earl]

Boston fans have been spoiled by the Sox and Pats, but the Celtics cannot be compared.  Both the Sox and Pats had a fairly young nucleus when the won titles and could afford to be patient.  The Celtics can't.  They have a very narrow time frame to win.  And outside of Rondo, they have very little concrete hope for the future.

Not really, you're comparing the situation the Celtics are in now with the one the Patriots and Red Sox are in now. People said the same things about the Patriots after Superbowl 36. I recall Lawyer Milloy leaving being a devastating blow to the Patriots chances of future success. We had the same kind of debates when Pedro wasn't resigned.

You can't go too far to compare the respective sports, as they are very different, but one thing Boston fans have learned is that good management pays dividends. After watching the Red Sox and Patriots organizations over the past years, fans are more in tune with how management operates, and are less likely to fret over the loss of certain players for any team (franchise players aside).

[P2]

From Today's Herald:

Meanwhile, the Posey watch continues.

The Celtics appear to be fairly set in their stance, reportedly not willing to go more than three years at the mid-level for the key reserve.

“I know that James likes Boston and we like James,” said Ainge, “but I don’t know where we stand with what other teams are offering him.”

And just to answer an oft-asked e-mail question from fans, the NBA - unlike the NFL - does not allow its players to restructure contracts and free up money for others. Thus, Kevin Garnett cannot give back some of his millions to make more cash available for Posey.

He wanted to sign a contract quickly, but since no team is going to offer him a 4th year, he will just wait and this might drag out until late August again. The team which gives him the 4th year is going to get him. It's a matter of who is going to cave in first. Very disloyal and arrogant behavior of Posey, if you ask me. But we can't wait for that and should go after other players as long as they're available.