No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)

[bucknersrevenge]

  so why cant we have a committee of guys to fill out a roster and each of them play a role in the success of this team?...or did we not do that last year?

No, we didn't do that last year.

Davis, Powe, Cassell, House, TAllen were buried for most of the post-season. When the matchups dictated so, they got some burn. House and Powe played well in certain matchups. But don't kid yourself. For 95% of the post-season, we had a 7 man rotation playing most of the minutes.

PP
KG
Ray
Rondo
Perk
Posey
PJ

Let's say the two-headed monster of House/Cassell at the back-up point was the 8th man.

  Last year Posey was so important because we had so many weak spots on the bench. What happened isn't the only scenario that can lead to a championship. A lot of the people who are pushing for Posey at any cost are fixated on the backup sf spot as the be all and end all of a team's bench. Last year we won the title with a great backup sf and garbage (or, if you prefer, a couple of pupu platters) for our backup center/pf and pg. What if we had a pupu platter at backup sf and a good backup center? What about a good backup pg? What about a decent backup sf (worse than Posey), but a better big than PJ and a better pg than House or Cassell? Won't those scenarios work?

It wouldn't work as well as Posey, because Posey plays three positions. He is a unique player.

you dont need posey to play 3 positions. posey doesnt even play 3 positions well. he doesnt guard 2s or 4s all that well to be honest and when he played at the 4 we settled for jumpshots on offense way too often anyway. gimme a break with the "posey is a unique player" kg is a unique player. paul pierce is a unique player. rajon rondo is a unique player. it couldnt possibly work any other way cuz posey is just the bees knees. teams have won titles without james posey. im sure it can be done again.

[bucknersrevenge]

actually i liked joe johnson. had never heard of brown before we got him. then again what does that have to do with anything? i bet you liked alaa abdelnaby. see we can both do this.

I actually liked Joe Forte. 

actually i did too [dang] shame he turned out to be such a scrub. i liked watching him in college in those games vs duke.

[Truth Hurts]

Do you want Devean George or Quinton Ross in the game in the 4th quarter of a game 5 against Detroit? I know I certainly don't.


What's wrong with Devean George in the 4th quarter? I suppose having one more championship ring than Posey doesn't give him the requisite "toughness" and "intangibles" to play on the Celtics.

Actually, George averaged 2, 3.9 and 15 minutes a game in the Lakers three title runs (post-season).

Posey played 22 minutes a game for us in the post-season.

[BballTim]

  so why cant we have a committee of guys to fill out a roster and each of them play a role in the success of this team?...or did we not do that last year?

No, we didn't do that last year.

Davis, Powe, Cassell, House, TAllen were buried for most of the post-season. When the matchups dictated so, they got some burn. House and Powe played well in certain matchups. But don't kid yourself. For 95% of the post-season, we had a 7 man rotation playing most of the minutes.

PP
KG
Ray
Rondo
Perk
Posey
PJ

Let's say the two-headed monster of House/Cassell at the back-up point was the 8th man.

  Last year Posey was so important because we had so many weak spots on the bench. What happened isn't the only scenario that can lead to a championship. A lot of the people who are pushing for Posey at any cost are fixated on the backup sf spot as the be all and end all of a team's bench. Last year we won the title with a great backup sf and garbage (or, if you prefer, a couple of pupu platters) for our backup center/pf and pg. What if we had a pupu platter at backup sf and a good backup center? What about a good backup pg? What about a decent backup sf (worse than Posey), but a better big than PJ and a better pg than House or Cassell? Won't those scenarios work?

It wouldn't work as well as Posey, because Posey plays three positions. He is a unique player.

  A better big would mean, for starters, that we'd get better backup play at center than we do now, as well as better beckup pf minutes than we did from Posey. Throw in a better pg than House/Cassell and we're better at 3 positions than we are now. Why doesn't that work as well?

[Truth Hurts]

  A better big would mean, for starters, that we'd get better backup play at center than we do now, as well as better beckup pf minutes than we did from Posey. Throw in a better pg than House/Cassell and we're better at 3 positions than we are now. Why doesn't that work as well?

Because those guys would be replacing PJ, House and Cassell. Not Posey.

PJ played big minutes in the playoffs. He needs to be replaced, regardless. 

[BballTim]

  so why cant we have a committee of guys to fill out a roster and each of them play a role in the success of this team?...or did we not do that last year?

No, we didn't do that last year.

Davis, Powe, Cassell, House, TAllen were buried for most of the post-season. When the matchups dictated so, they got some burn. House and Powe played well in certain matchups. But don't kid yourself. For 95% of the post-season, we had a 7 man rotation playing most of the minutes.

PP
KG
Ray
Rondo
Perk
Posey
PJ

Let's say the two-headed monster of House/Cassell at the back-up point was the 8th man.

  Last year Posey was so important because we had so many weak spots on the bench. What happened isn't the only scenario that can lead to a championship. A lot of the people who are pushing for Posey at any cost are fixated on the backup sf spot as the be all and end all of a team's bench. Last year we won the title with a great backup sf and garbage (or, if you prefer, a couple of pupu platters) for our backup center/pf and pg. What if we had a pupu platter at backup sf and a good backup center? What about a good backup pg? What about a decent backup sf (worse than Posey), but a better big than PJ and a better pg than House or Cassell? Won't those scenarios work?

Maybe. But who's a better backup pg than House or Cassell or a better big than PJ? There are lots of guys, I understand; but who can we sign in the FA market splitting the MLE for those 3 guys?

  I don't know enough about what salaries all of the FAs are looking for to answer that. But IMO the play we got at pg and c was at times decent but generally poor, so I don't see upgrading those spots as an insurmountable task.

[BballTim]

  A better big would mean, for starters, that we'd get better backup play at center than we do now, as well as better beckup pf minutes than we did from Posey. Throw in a better pg than House/Cassell and we're better at 3 positions than we are now. Why doesn't that work as well?

Because those guys would be replacing PJ, House and Cassell. Not Posey.

PJ played big minutes in the playoffs. He needs to be replaced, regardless. 

  That's not the point. You seem to think that the level of play we get at center, pf and pg are unimportant, and the play we get at backup sf and sg is life or death. Leaving Posey out of the discussion for a moment, if we can win with good backup play at sf and sg and bad backup play at pg and c, why can't we win with good backup play at pg and c and bad backup play at sf and sg?

[bucknersrevenge]

Do you want Devean George or Quinton Ross in the game in the 4th quarter of a game 5 against Detroit? I know I certainly don't.


What's wrong with Devean George in the 4th quarter? I suppose having one more championship ring than Posey doesn't give him the requisite "toughness" and "intangibles" to play on the Celtics.

Actually, George averaged 2, 3.9 and 15 minutes a game in the Lakers three title runs (post-season).

Posey played 22 minutes a game for us in the post-season.

and he wouldnt have had to play 22 minutes if we had been better up front. doc didnt play posey at the 4 because he WANTED to. he played him at the 4 because our other big men options werent consistent because they had no experience. posey for long minutes at the 4 is not a good thing. we only need a wing defender to play 15 good min off the bench in the playoffs.

[cordobes]

  so why cant we have a committee of guys to fill out a roster and each of them play a role in the success of this team?...or did we not do that last year?

No, we didn't do that last year.

Davis, Powe, Cassell, House, TAllen were buried for most of the post-season. When the matchups dictated so, they got some burn. House and Powe played well in certain matchups. But don't kid yourself. For 95% of the post-season, we had a 7 man rotation playing most of the minutes.

PP
KG
Ray
Rondo
Perk
Posey
PJ

Let's say the two-headed monster of House/Cassell at the back-up point was the 8th man.

  Last year Posey was so important because we had so many weak spots on the bench. What happened isn't the only scenario that can lead to a championship. A lot of the people who are pushing for Posey at any cost are fixated on the backup sf spot as the be all and end all of a team's bench. Last year we won the title with a great backup sf and garbage (or, if you prefer, a couple of pupu platters) for our backup center/pf and pg. What if we had a pupu platter at backup sf and a good backup center? What about a good backup pg? What about a decent backup sf (worse than Posey), but a better big than PJ and a better pg than House or Cassell? Won't those scenarios work?

Maybe. But who's a better backup pg than House or Cassell or a better big than PJ? There are lots of guys, I understand; but who can we sign in the FA market splitting the MLE for those 3 guys?

  I don't know enough about what salaries all of the FAs are looking for to answer that. But IMO the play we got at pg and c was at times decent but generally poor, so I don't see upgrading those spots as an insurmountable task.

Okay, don't care about the salaries then. Just give me names. Anthony Johnson as an upgrade over Cassell, maybe? Elson as an upgrade over PJ Brown?

[timepiece33]

That's not the point. You seem to think that the level of play we get at center, pf and pg are unimportant, and the play we get at backup sf and sg is life or death. Leaving Posey out of the discussion for a moment, if we can win with good backup play at sf and sg and bad backup play at pg and c, why can't we win with good backup play at pg and c and bad backup play at sf and sg?

You seem to think that the level of play we get from our 6th man is less important than the play that we'd get from guys lower in the rotation.

Who is this good backup SF we are going to sign if we don't pursue Posey?

[BCelts]

Do we really need the MLE to sign a backup center and Eddie House? I really don't think we do.

Some of you are proposing that we replace Posey with the pu-pu platter of role players.....but it doesn't work like that. Good teams stick primarily to an 8 man rotation, with some occasional spot time for weaker players.

In theory, we could sign three guys that could play 8 minutes each, and each give us some of the things that BGJ does. Then, in the playoffs....those guys would get exposed for what they are.

This is my position as well.  The sum of a few player's talent in the NBA can never equal those talents in a single player.  The restriction comes in because you are only allowed to play five guys at once.  Three examples/anecdotes to support this point:  First, if we sign Matt Barnes (a 3/4 defender), a three point shooter, and a Ross to be a wing defender for the same money as Posey, that is a huge mistake.  When we bring in Barnes, for example, to play the defensive role, we lose the three point shooting on the other end of the same court.  In other words, were it Posey, instead, filling that role, we would still have the three point shooter AND the defender.  You might say, "well, bring in the three point shooter also."  OK, but that player displaces somebody else with skills who was on the Court.  

Second discussion point: take Cleveland for example.  I strongly believe that one of the reasons we beat them (besides pp) is that many of their players not named LaBron are role players.  Take their front line of Ilgauskis, Wallace, Sideshow Bob, and Joe Smith.  Ilgauskis and Joe Smith help offensively but hurt defensively.  Sideshow Bob and Wallace the opposite.  From my point of view, I watched the Celtics pick apart these guys respective weaknesses because the Celtics on the Court were, in general, better rounded players with superior skill sets in many areas, while not being deficient in those skills where they were weaker.  This is the way NBA playoff basketball is moving in my opinion - towards well-rounded players in general who may or may not have specific skills where they excel.  Just like Rondo's offensive weakness was a constant target for exploitation, so too would Matt Barnes.  Posey, not so much.

Third discussion point: The extreme example.  If you could combine (for example) Korver's shooting, Iggy's slashing, and Cassell's short man, post-up game.  That would be one hell of an offensive player.  Probably top 10 in the NBA.  However, if you play these same players as a starting unit, you have a perennial-cellar dweller.

[Truth Hurts]

Do you want Devean George or Quinton Ross in the game in the 4th quarter of a game 5 against Detroit? I know I certainly don't.


What's wrong with Devean George in the 4th quarter? I suppose having one more championship ring than Posey doesn't give him the requisite "toughness" and "intangibles" to play on the Celtics.

Actually, George averaged 2, 3.9 and 15 minutes a game in the Lakers three title runs (post-season).

Posey played 22 minutes a game for us in the post-season.

and he wouldnt have had to play 22 minutes if we had been better up front. doc didnt play posey at the 4 because he WANTED to. he played him at the 4 because our other big men options werent consistent because they had no experience. posey for long minutes at the 4 is not a good thing. we only need a wing defender to play 15 good min off the bench in the playoffs.

I don't agree with that at all. Posey played most of his minutes at a wing spot. He played the four at times for three reasons:

1. Matching up with an opponent going small.  
2. Spacing the floor with shooters
3. Perk getting hurt

Again....his versatility allows Doc to use him as needed.

[cordobes]

  so why cant we have a committee of guys to fill out a roster and each of them play a role in the success of this team?...or did we not do that last year?

No, we didn't do that last year.

Davis, Powe, Cassell, House, TAllen were buried for most of the post-season. When the matchups dictated so, they got some burn. House and Powe played well in certain matchups. But don't kid yourself. For 95% of the post-season, we had a 7 man rotation playing most of the minutes.

PP
KG
Ray
Rondo
Perk
Posey
PJ

Let's say the two-headed monster of House/Cassell at the back-up point was the 8th man.

  Last year Posey was so important because we had so many weak spots on the bench. What happened isn't the only scenario that can lead to a championship. A lot of the people who are pushing for Posey at any cost are fixated on the backup sf spot as the be all and end all of a team's bench. Last year we won the title with a great backup sf and garbage (or, if you prefer, a couple of pupu platters) for our backup center/pf and pg. What if we had a pupu platter at backup sf and a good backup center? What about a good backup pg? What about a decent backup sf (worse than Posey), but a better big than PJ and a better pg than House or Cassell? Won't those scenarios work?

It wouldn't work as well as Posey, because Posey plays three positions. He is a unique player.

you dont need posey to play 3 positions. posey doesnt even play 3 positions well. he doesnt guard 2s or 4s all that well to be honest

Of course not. In the last 3 years he just guarded the league MVPs (a 4 and a 2) in clinching games in the NBA Finals. I'm sure the #30 pick of the draft and Brian Scalabrine are able to do a similar job.

I think the problem here is "that well compared to who?". I mean you have  free-agents and the MLE to spend, it's not like we can replace Posey by another player we like more.

[BCelts]

whichever guys doc is the most comofortable playing the most bench minutes come playoff time wins. pecking order gets sorted out naturally. its really not that hard.

I think you're really minimizing the type of player it will take to crack the C's top 7 and play major minutes in a potential championship run. See my previous post.

and i disagree. it takes guys that know their roles and play within the team. but either way i think were gonna find out but i dont think dannys gonna flinch. if im wrong and we get posey back so be it. i certainly like the guy. but i just dont prescribe to the "james posey is irreplaceable"  sentiment. i just think that puts us in a terrible position as in "pants around your ankles". and were not even talking about a franchise guy or a near max player.

Posey is not irreplaceable by any means.  There are other players in the leasgue that can do what he does.  Sadly, none of them are also free agents.  Realistically, Posey is by far the best free agent left available.  It would be far perferable to use our entire MLE on his skill set rather than try to piecemeal replace his skill set with the other available free agents.  The latter situation involves spending the same amount of money, taking more roster spots and, as Cordobes pointed out, creating significant problems when the weaknesses of those replacement players are exposed.

[BCelts]

  Last year Posey was so important because we had so many weak spots on the bench. What happened isn't the only scenario that can lead to a championship. A lot of the people who are pushing for Posey at any cost are fixated on the backup sf spot as the be all and end all of a team's bench. Last year we won the title with a great backup sf and garbage (or, if you prefer, a couple of pupu platters) for our backup center/pf and pg. What if we had a pupu platter at backup sf and a good backup center? What about a good backup pg? What about a decent backup sf (worse than Posey), but a better big than PJ and a better pg than House or Cassell? Won't those scenarios work?

I agree with your that that situation could well work.  A stong 6th man at PG or, perferable, center might work quite well.  Better than Posey in fact given our roster (the abundence of swingmen) and the possibility of TA returning.  However, the real problem is that there are no "Posey quality" free agent Centers or point guard available.  Kinda destroys that plan.