Author Topic: No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)  (Read 53680 times)

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Re: No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)
« Reply #90 on: July 09, 2008, 04:48:54 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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  so why cant we have a committee of guys to fill out a roster and each of them play a role in the success of this team?...or did we not do that last year?

No, we didn't do that last year.

Davis, Powe, Cassell, House, TAllen were buried for most of the post-season. When the matchups dictated so, they got some burn. House and Powe played well in certain matchups. But don't kid yourself. For 95% of the post-season, we had a 7 man rotation playing most of the minutes.

PP
KG
Ray
Rondo
Perk
Posey
PJ

Let's say the two-headed monster of House/Cassell at the back-up point was the 8th man.

for most of the regular season yes we did play almost everybody at different times. as for the season, next year we sign our group of guys and just like we did this year, play them by the end of the season whichever guys doc is the most comofortable playing the most bench minutes come playoff time wins. pecking order gets sorted out naturally. its really not that hard.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity...

Re: No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)
« Reply #91 on: July 09, 2008, 04:53:58 PM »

Offline Truth Hurts

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whichever guys doc is the most comofortable playing the most bench minutes come playoff time wins. pecking order gets sorted out naturally. its really not that hard.

I think you're really minimizing the type of player it will take to crack the C's top 7 and play major minutes in a potential championship run. See my previous post.
"Odom drains another 16-footer. It's 24-7, Lakers. They look so possessed on both ends that they've earned at least five sitting ovations from the Lakers' crowd." - Simmons

Re: No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)
« Reply #92 on: July 09, 2008, 04:54:57 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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in the regular season it can and then when the playoffs come you pick the main guys to help you and spot minutes for the rest. i agree with that and theres no reason we cant still do that. NONE. i think all this is is fear. fear of having to try something new. we tried something new last year too. people thought our bench would be bad last year too and thats after posey came on. as long as guys know their roles theres no reason it can't work.

But that is really the crux of my big problem with that whole idea. None of the guys mentioned are good enough to be in that 7-8 man rotation that contending teams use in playoff games. The reason that House and Powe disappeared for long stretches of the post-season is that they can only thrive in certain match-ups. They are not strong enough all around players to consistently play major minutes in a playoff run. You're proposing that we sign a bunch of House/Powe types and play a 12 man rotation in the playoffs. It doesn't work like that. You can only play five guys at a time. Players with holes in their games are exposed in the playoffs. Posey is versatile enough to play major minutes regardless of matchups. I really have not heard one name yet that I would put in that category.

Do you want Devean George or Quinton Ross in the game in the 4th quarter of a game 5 against Detroit? I know I certainly don't.



no im not suggesting that. im suggesting doc plays matchups during the regular season and then by the end of the year the cream that rises to the top becomes the bench rotation in the playoffs. the order of things always gets sorted out on the court.

do i want quinton ross no because hes never played in the playoffs before...wait yes he has. do i want devean george in the 4th quearter. no because he doesnt have championship experience...no wait...
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity...

Re: No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)
« Reply #93 on: July 09, 2008, 04:57:33 PM »

Offline cordobes

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Devean George? Quinton Ross? Are you kidding me? Those guys can't defend three positions like Posey does, are not nearly as tough as Posey, nor do they stretch the floor like Posey.

You can sit here and say "we'll sign a wing defender, we'll sign another 3 point shooter, we'll sign another tough guy..."

You're not going to find one guy who gives you all those things. Even Bowen can't defend power forwards.

Remember, the whole Lakers series turned when Rondo and Perk were hurt and they put Posey and House in and spread the floor with shooters. Again.....there is no one guy available that gives you everything that BGJ does.

see heres the inherent difference in our arguments. youre operating under the belief that we NEED to sign ONE guy to guard 3 positions. i dont. i feel a committee of paul pierce, jr giddens, signed fa wing defender, signed big man(andersen maybe?) and even a little scal for a few min guarding mobile 4s can absolutely cover all bases on the wing and forward spots. we dont need one guy to do all that. truth be told i liked poseys defense at the 4 a lot less than when he was guarding wings on the perimeter. not to mention the fact that when he was at the 4 spot on offense we had a tendency to settle for the jumpshot WAY too often.

we dont need one guy to give us all that posey did. we can sign a few with the mle, fill out a whole roster, give each of them roles and get everything posey gave us on the court as a collective sum. as for who plays the 6th man, who cares who it is?? if all the roleplayers have a role and do what they do that situation will bear itself out naturally. the important thing is bringing in guys that can defend, that can play together and can support the starters.

I understand that logic, but in all honesty, it only looks reasonable on paper. That's why versatility is such an expensive commodity.

Try to apply it to concrete situations. Let's say that we sign Ross - the best perimeter defender available - and we're facing a team in the playoffs with a good wing player, like many in the East. Imagine that Pierce or Allen gets in foul trouble early guarding that player. Ross enters the game for one of them. But then, you'll have Ross and Rondo, two players who can't shoot, in the backourt and the other team can, and will, sag off both of them in the defensive side. They'll clog the lane and cheat the passing lanes with two players. It'll make scoring much more difficult for us, so you'd probably need to replace Rondo with another pg with long-range shoot, then downgrading the pg defense, etc etc.

Imagine we bring Barnes instead of Ross. Barnes is not a good perimeter defender, so you'd probably play Giddens in that situation. But do you want a rookie to play major minutes in the playoffs during his first season? Is he that good? The majority of the #30 picks is out of the league after their first contract.

Or imagine that we're playing Dallas in the finals and we signed Ross. He can't defend Nowitzki, so now you're trusting major minutes in the NBA Finals to Scalabrine.

That's why the "collective sum theory" doesn't really work, and teams usually shorten their rotation during the playoffs, and versatile players like Posey are so coveted, while true specialists like Ross or House, not so much.

Re: No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)
« Reply #94 on: July 09, 2008, 04:59:10 PM »

Offline Truth Hurts

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Exactly, cordobes.

You guys are ridiculous. I hope you enjoy watching Tony Allen dribbling the ball off of his foot during a key possession down the stretch of a huge playoff game that makes or breaks our season.
"Odom drains another 16-footer. It's 24-7, Lakers. They look so possessed on both ends that they've earned at least five sitting ovations from the Lakers' crowd." - Simmons

Re: No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)
« Reply #95 on: July 09, 2008, 05:00:09 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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whichever guys doc is the most comofortable playing the most bench minutes come playoff time wins. pecking order gets sorted out naturally. its really not that hard.

I think you're really minimizing the type of player it will take to crack the C's top 7 and play major minutes in a potential championship run. See my previous post.

and i disagree. it takes guys that know their roles and play within the team. but either way i think were gonna find out but i dont think dannys gonna flinch. if im wrong and we get posey back so be it. i certainly like the guy. but i just dont prescribe to the "james posey is irreplaceable"  sentiment. i just think that puts us in a terrible position as in "pants around your ankles". and were not even talking about a franchise guy or a near max player.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity...

Re: No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)
« Reply #96 on: July 09, 2008, 05:01:30 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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Exactly, cordobes.

You guys are ridiculous. I hope you enjoy watching Tony Allen dribbling the ball off of his foot during a key possession down the stretch of a huge playoff game that makes or breaks our season.

well theres one thing you and i can definitely agree on. i dont want tony anywhere near this team next year. i think giddens is better than him right now without even played a minute yet.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity...

Re: No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)
« Reply #97 on: July 09, 2008, 05:02:31 PM »

Offline Truth Hurts

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well theres one thing you and i can definitely agree on. i dont want tony anywhere near this team next year. i think giddens is better than him right now without even played a minute yet.

I bet you liked Kedrick Brown, too.
"Odom drains another 16-footer. It's 24-7, Lakers. They look so possessed on both ends that they've earned at least five sitting ovations from the Lakers' crowd." - Simmons

Re: No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)
« Reply #98 on: July 09, 2008, 05:06:10 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  so why cant we have a committee of guys to fill out a roster and each of them play a role in the success of this team?...or did we not do that last year?

No, we didn't do that last year.

Davis, Powe, Cassell, House, TAllen were buried for most of the post-season. When the matchups dictated so, they got some burn. House and Powe played well in certain matchups. But don't kid yourself. For 95% of the post-season, we had a 7 man rotation playing most of the minutes.

PP
KG
Ray
Rondo
Perk
Posey
PJ

Let's say the two-headed monster of House/Cassell at the back-up point was the 8th man.

  Last year Posey was so important because we had so many weak spots on the bench. What happened isn't the only scenario that can lead to a championship. A lot of the people who are pushing for Posey at any cost are fixated on the backup sf spot as the be all and end all of a team's bench. Last year we won the title with a great backup sf and garbage (or, if you prefer, a couple of pupu platters) for our backup center/pf and pg. What if we had a pupu platter at backup sf and a good backup center? What about a good backup pg? What about a decent backup sf (worse than Posey), but a better big than PJ and a better pg than House or Cassell? Won't those scenarios work?

Re: No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)
« Reply #99 on: July 09, 2008, 05:08:50 PM »

Offline Truth Hurts

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  so why cant we have a committee of guys to fill out a roster and each of them play a role in the success of this team?...or did we not do that last year?

No, we didn't do that last year.

Davis, Powe, Cassell, House, TAllen were buried for most of the post-season. When the matchups dictated so, they got some burn. House and Powe played well in certain matchups. But don't kid yourself. For 95% of the post-season, we had a 7 man rotation playing most of the minutes.

PP
KG
Ray
Rondo
Perk
Posey
PJ

Let's say the two-headed monster of House/Cassell at the back-up point was the 8th man.

  Last year Posey was so important because we had so many weak spots on the bench. What happened isn't the only scenario that can lead to a championship. A lot of the people who are pushing for Posey at any cost are fixated on the backup sf spot as the be all and end all of a team's bench. Last year we won the title with a great backup sf and garbage (or, if you prefer, a couple of pupu platters) for our backup center/pf and pg. What if we had a pupu platter at backup sf and a good backup center? What about a good backup pg? What about a decent backup sf (worse than Posey), but a better big than PJ and a better pg than House or Cassell? Won't those scenarios work?

It wouldn't work as well as Posey, because Posey plays three positions. He is a unique player.
"Odom drains another 16-footer. It's 24-7, Lakers. They look so possessed on both ends that they've earned at least five sitting ovations from the Lakers' crowd." - Simmons

Re: No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)
« Reply #100 on: July 09, 2008, 05:10:03 PM »

Offline Truth Hurts

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And I am not proposing "sign him at all costs". What I am saying, is that if we offer three yrs at the MLE and a team offers him 4 yrs, and Posey gives us the chance to match, I would do it.
"Odom drains another 16-footer. It's 24-7, Lakers. They look so possessed on both ends that they've earned at least five sitting ovations from the Lakers' crowd." - Simmons

Re: No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)
« Reply #101 on: July 09, 2008, 05:11:42 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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well theres one thing you and i can definitely agree on. i dont want tony anywhere near this team next year. i think giddens is better than him right now without even played a minute yet.

I bet you liked Kedrick Brown, too.

actually i liked joe johnson. had never heard of brown before we got him. then again what does that have to do with anything? i bet you liked alaa abdelnaby. see we can both do this.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity...

Re: No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)
« Reply #102 on: July 09, 2008, 05:11:57 PM »

Offline cordobes

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  so why cant we have a committee of guys to fill out a roster and each of them play a role in the success of this team?...or did we not do that last year?

No, we didn't do that last year.

Davis, Powe, Cassell, House, TAllen were buried for most of the post-season. When the matchups dictated so, they got some burn. House and Powe played well in certain matchups. But don't kid yourself. For 95% of the post-season, we had a 7 man rotation playing most of the minutes.

PP
KG
Ray
Rondo
Perk
Posey
PJ

Let's say the two-headed monster of House/Cassell at the back-up point was the 8th man.

  Last year Posey was so important because we had so many weak spots on the bench. What happened isn't the only scenario that can lead to a championship. A lot of the people who are pushing for Posey at any cost are fixated on the backup sf spot as the be all and end all of a team's bench. Last year we won the title with a great backup sf and garbage (or, if you prefer, a couple of pupu platters) for our backup center/pf and pg. What if we had a pupu platter at backup sf and a good backup center? What about a good backup pg? What about a decent backup sf (worse than Posey), but a better big than PJ and a better pg than House or Cassell? Won't those scenarios work?

Maybe. But who's a better backup pg than House or Cassell or a better big than PJ? There are lots of guys, I understand; but who can we sign in the FA market splitting the MLE for those 3 guys?

Re: No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)
« Reply #103 on: July 09, 2008, 05:14:36 PM »

Offline soap07

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Do you want Devean George or Quinton Ross in the game in the 4th quarter of a game 5 against Detroit? I know I certainly don't.


What's wrong with Devean George in the 4th quarter? I suppose having one more championship ring than Posey doesn't give him the requisite "toughness" and "intangibles" to play on the Celtics.

Re: No Worries From Ainge (Herald Article)
« Reply #104 on: July 09, 2008, 05:15:21 PM »

Offline Truth Hurts

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actually i liked joe johnson. had never heard of brown before we got him. then again what does that have to do with anything? i bet you liked alaa abdelnaby. see we can both do this.

I actually liked Joe Forte.  :-[
"Odom drains another 16-footer. It's 24-7, Lakers. They look so possessed on both ends that they've earned at least five sitting ovations from the Lakers' crowd." - Simmons