Would you prefer Allen and Pietrus....

[Norcalceltic]

Being from the Bay Area, I watch a lot of Warriors games. I nicknamed Pietrus "The French Tony Allen", it's not a compliment. Both are very talented and physically gifted, but both make a lot of dumb plays. But every now and then Pietrus has some amazing games. He was also benched in favor of journeymen Matt Barnes and Kelena Azebuke. With tha being said, I'd sign both for cheap.

[MaineBleedsGreen]

three things:

1) didn't Pietrus play the 4 pretty well for nellie for about a 3-4 week stretch last year before he got hurt? I know he's only listed at 6-6, but it does indicate he could fill several roles, obviously the 2,3,4

2) didn't Pietrus get called out by Nellie and team mates when it took him forever to come back from that second injury? did he even come back before the season was over? I just remember I had to dump him from my fantasy team.

3) I'd bring TA back for short change. I don't know why (and there's a million reasons not to be) but I'm still interested to see what he can do if he's able to "put it together". I guess part of it is being nervous he would end up performing well for someone else's bench.

[cordobes]

Being from the Bay Area, I watch a lot of Warriors games. I nicknamed Pietrus "The French Tony Allen", it's not a compliment.

It's the same comparison I use. I've already said that Pietrus is the socialized medicine of basketball, he looks good from distance.

three things:
1) didn't Pietrus play the 4 pretty well for nellie for about a 3-4 week stretch last year before he got hurt? I know he's only listed at 6-6, but it does indicate he could fill several roles, obviously the 2,3,4

2) didn't Pietrus get called out by Nellie and team mates when it took him forever to come back from that second injury? did he even come back before the season was over? I just remember I had to dump him from my fantasy team.

3) I'd bring TA back for short change. I don't know why (and there's a million reasons not to be) but I'm still interested to see what he can do if he's able to "put it together". I guess part of it is being nervous he would end up performing well for someone else's bench.

1) The fact that he can play the 4 in Nellieball doesn't mean he can play the 4 somewhere else. Pietrus was cut from the French National Team because he wasn't able to play in a slow pace system, it's too complicated for him. 

2) Yeah, it was a groin injury, IIRC.

3) I'd take that risk. I'd only bring him back if he comes very cheap.

[indeedproceed]

I secretly covet Azubuike for the Celtics

[LarBrd33]

Sounds like the Magic will sign Pietrus:

"Sources have confirmed to RealGM's Jarrod Rudolph that the Orlando Magic will sign free agent wing Mickael Pietrus to a contract on Wednesday.

Terms of the deal are not yet known and we will be delivering updates as we learn more."

[cordobes]

I secretly covet Azubuike for the Celtics

I'm with you and I make no secret of that. But Mullin will lock him up.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I secretly covet Azubuike for the Celtics

I'm with you and I make no secret of that. But Mullin will lock him up.

I'm with you guys, I like Azubuike (is that the correct spelling of his last name?) too.

[Cman]

Sounds like the Magic will sign Pietrus:

"Sources have confirmed to RealGM's Jarrod Rudolph that the Orlando Magic will sign free agent wing Mickael Pietrus to a contract on Wednesday.

Terms of the deal are not yet known and we will be delivering updates as we learn more."

http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

Wow, sounds like he is getting more than I anticipated (close to full MLE but I guess details will emerge).

This will only make Posey more expensive to keep..... (let alone Maggette)

Also sounds like James Jones may sign with Miami....


EDIT:  I also like Azubuike, but isn't he restricted?  GSW will retain his services, IMHO.

[BballTim]

I absolutely wouldn't prefer him, but I would pursue Pietrus strongly as a backup, if you can't get Posey or Maggette.

I have zero interest in bringing back Allen, because I think Giddens fills his spot as the emergency wing with potential to be more very nicely.

My question to you is, wouldn't you like to see this type of unit and see what they can do?

Rondo
Tony
Giddens
Posey
Garnett

If not Tony, some other athletic 2. The reason I ask is because it's only possible if we treat Giddens as an addition instead of a replacement. We got Walker too, but I haven't seen much expectations of him for this year... so if both Walker and Giddens somehow make the roster, we could have a really explosive unit. If he doesn't, then I'd like to see Tony or a real replacement. I preffer to treat Giddens as an addition to the roster.

No, I absolutely positively, I could never say it enough, ever want to see that lineup on the floor with any consistency.

Doc played some ball last year for stretches at the end of games because he had no choice many times. He had a small roster. Posey was the 5th best player on the team and he could shoot FTs. Perk, early on and for a good part of the season was a liability on the court late.

Doc's small ball lineups always seemed to do little less than give up more points. There were games where smallball got the Celts back in games but those small ball lineups consisted of House-R Allen-Pierce-Posey-Garnett. Maybe Davis or Powe is in there instead of Garnett or perhaps Rondo was in instead of House. But Doc's best small ball rotations always had Pierce and Allen with Posey or Pierce and House with Posey on the floor. Putting Garnett, Rondo, Allen and Giddens on the floor(three bad 3 pt shooters and one unproven 3 pt shooter on the floor with Posey is a recipe for disaster.

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708BOS2.HTM

Here's a link to Boston's 5 man units last year.

Only 4 units scored more points per 100 possessions than the starting unit and at the same time was within 6 points of giving up as many points as the starters.

The starters scored 113 pts per 100 poss and gave up 93 pts per 100 poss.
The second most played unit of T Allen in for Ray Allen scored 115 PP100 and gave up 93 PP100.
House-Allen-Allen-Posey-Davis scored 123 PP100 and gave up 87 PP100
Allen-Allen-Pierce-Garnett-Perkins scored 115 PP100 and gave up 83 PP100
House-RAllen-Pierce-Posey-Pollard scored 132 PP100 and gave up 90 PP100

The last three lineups combined played less minutes together as units as the second most used unit of Rondo-TAllen-Pierce-Garnett-Perkins did together and that group only played a total of 159 minutes together.

Notice 5 of the most effective combos were not small ball lineups and the two that were had either 3 or 4 three point shooters on the court at that time. Other than those two lineups small ball usually meant scoring less PP100 than the starters and giving up a lot more than PP100 than the starters.

With my three guys coming in(Posey, Thomas, and Mason) how's this for a small ball lineup:

Mason-RAllen-Pierce-Posey-Thomas

or

Rondo-Mason-Pierce-Posey-Garnett.

I think on a small ball lineup the way this team plays defense and is constructed offensively small ball means smart, veteran three point shooters that can all handle the ball. Your lineup with TAllen and Giddens would be a disaster. Sorry. Just my opinion.

  One thing you'll notice from those 5 man units i that out of the 20 units, the 6 worst defensive units (including the only 3 units with a negative +/-) have Posey at pf. Small sample sizes, but an unsettling trend.

Actually I did notice that. The small ball lineups were awful defensively and just never consistently better offensively to be effective as a whole. I really hope if Posey leaves that that means Danny goes with a real big to play backup center and we only see the small lineup for very specific circumstances. I feel last year Doc went with it because he had to, he had very little height. I hope that gets corrected this year.

  That (and Posey's age) are the main reason I question giving him the largish multi-year deal. If we get a decent backup center that takes center minutes away from Powe and KG, and they'll play more of the pf minutes. That will reduce Posey's role from what it was last year when we had no bench. We'll probably get better defense from a center than we do from Powe at center and we'll get better minutes at the pf than we were getting from Posey. This (and a better backup pg) would strengthen the bench even if we get a backup sf that's not quite as good as Posey.

[nickagneta]

TP4U saved me a ton of time saying the exact same thing.

[KungPoweChicken]

Wow, if things shape up the way they are looking the C's will not be left with much. Hypothetically speaking, Maggatte signs with the Spurs, Posey signs with the Hornets, Pietrus signs with the Magic. The Celtics will be left with Childress, Barnes, and Ross. If I am Danny I do not hesitate to throw most of the MLE at Josh Childress hoping that Atlanta does not match. I'd love to have Childress as the 6th man on this team and potentially become Ray Allens replacement. Does anyone think Atlanta will match an offer close to the MLE for Childress?

[Donoghus]

Wow, if things shape up the way they are looking the C's will not be left with much. Hypothetically speaking, Maggatte signs with the Spurs, Posey signs with the Hornets, Pietrus signs with the Magic. The Celtics will be left with Childress, Barnes, and Ross. If I am Danny I do not hesitate to throw most of the MLE at Josh Childress hoping that Atlanta does not match. I'd love to have Childress as the 6th man on this team and potentially become Ray Allens replacement. Does anyone think Atlanta will match an offer close to the MLE for Childress?

If Smith jumps ship, I wouldn't be shocked if Atlanta does everything they can to keep Childress.  I wouldn't discount a panic move from that organization.

[bucknersrevenge]

I absolutely wouldn't prefer him, but I would pursue Pietrus strongly as a backup, if you can't get Posey or Maggette.

I have zero interest in bringing back Allen, because I think Giddens fills his spot as the emergency wing with potential to be more very nicely.

My question to you is, wouldn't you like to see this type of unit and see what they can do?

Rondo
Tony
Giddens
Posey
Garnett

If not Tony, some other athletic 2. The reason I ask is because it's only possible if we treat Giddens as an addition instead of a replacement. We got Walker too, but I haven't seen much expectations of him for this year... so if both Walker and Giddens somehow make the roster, we could have a really explosive unit. If he doesn't, then I'd like to see Tony or a real replacement. I preffer to treat Giddens as an addition to the roster.

  Posey at pf generally means a big defensive letdown for the Celts.

Meh, only because we didn't have an effective small ball unit... we struggled to score, which put a ton of pressure on our defense. So, of course, those weren't the best defensive units with him at the PF, but our team wasn't getting the easy transition buckets that are customary of small ball units which magnified the diminished defense.

What I see this unit doing is playing competent defense, still be able to rebound the ball (Giddens is a great rebounder...can't forget about Rondo, and Garnett), push the pace up on offense to put the pressure on the other team's defense for easy points. Of course it won't be the best defensive unit we would be capable of, but it should be as good as it gets for a small ball unit that should be highly energetic and athletic... a unit to throw in for 5-10 minutes a game, or when the game calls for it.

when we struggled last year i thought a big problem was our habit of settling way too often for the jumpshot. we seemed over-reliant on the 3 and not enough attacking the rim, getting to the hoop and getting fouls. this is something maggette absolutely could help with. small ball lineups have their place for sure but i thought we went to ours way too often in games and doc had to because posey was  often a better option at the 4 than powe and bbd. fact is i see less min this year for posey even if we brought him back because that lineup with him at the 4 did not help near as much as people think it did.

[KungPoweChicken]

You're probably right, but johnson, Williams, and Childress is redundant. If I'm Atlanta I build around Horford, Williams, and Johnson. So if Smith leaves they probably sign Childress and keep him as the 6th man. However, Atlanta would be wasting Childress if they plan on playing him that way through out his best years. Atlanta does need to make some moves though. I wouldn't rule out a Josh Childress trade (not like we could get him that way though)

[Fan from VT]

Btw, S&T Biedrins for Powe+fillers? You want to take that kid home...

Ah, probably not.   Even though I love my boy Powe.

Biedrins is the most important player on the W's---more important than Monta.  10 boards a game and he's 21 yrs old.  Good to know that people/fans on the east coast know his value though---you'd never know by watching ESPN's NBA coverage. 
[/quote]

i love biedrins. i got laughed off celticsblog a couple years ago for wanting to trade delonte for him straight up.