Vin Baker: A sad story

[Andy Jick]

Vin knows the Bible pretty well...maybe he'll recall the part that says "we reap what we sow..."

I have no sympathy for that man...he was given NUMEROUS chances.  he should take this opportunity to realize what's important in his life.  if he loses every cent he should still be thankful for the people in his life who have stood by him at his worst times.

i don't know if Vin understands or appreciates this...the celtics bent over backwards for this guy, and i don't think he could even be grateful for that.

i hope he gets his personal life on track...but to lose a restaurant and a mansion, well, that's just part of life.

[mustang]

Actually, it is a disease, and speaking as one whose family has been ravaged and all but destroyed by substance abuse, this problem will never improve in this country until intolerance and a lack of understanding is squelched once-and-for-all. Sorry, but I have no tolerance for intolerance, and it makes me cringe when I see people outraged over racial bias, who turn right around and exhibit the same kind of prejudice towards those with substance abuse problems, or any kind of addiction. That "holier-than-thou" attitude is one of the main reasons this problem is as bad as it is in the first place. I find it hard to fathom that praise is showered on people who have no sympathy for other humans in desperate need of help and understanding. That's the truly saddest part of this story. I pray there's someone in Vin's life who cares enough about him to help him find the answers he needs to turn his life around.

As a recovering alcoholic, I understand where you're coming from, but some of the posts here have been from people who've seen loved ones suffer from alcoholism, as have you, and I don't view them as similar to  those who are racially biased or prejudiced. It is hard for me to be critical of them because I've seen how my actions have hurt those closest to me and I sympathize with their feelings.

You are right about it being a disease in that the American Medical Association categorizes it as such...

All the more reason to have a greater sense of understanding, not less. This is a complicated, painful subject, but intolerance and lack of sympathy is why this problem is as large as it is. Trust me when I say that I've seen and dealt with this disease from every side, and in more depth than most, and as long as the "Oh, he's just a drunk" or "She's a lowly addict" or "They did it to themselves, so who cares?" attitudes continue, this will never get better. It is the same kind of bias - just as prejudice towards overweight and ugly people is the same kind of bias - and it goes just as deep and is perpetuated with even less sensitivity than racial and sexual bias is. Of course it hurts everyone associated, but that should be greater impetus to face this problem head-on and out-in-the-open once and for all, and not just perpetuate these feelings and attitudes that strive to create even more apathy, and look to sweep this problem under the carpet, or leave it for someone else to deal with. However you view this problem, whether you view it as a disease or not, these people need help and understanding, not apathy and callousness.

I don't think you and I (if you were directing your earlier post at mine) are as far off from each other on the issue as it may appear. I happen to also believe that the issue deserves sensitivity and understanding, and should be confronted as often and in as transparent a fashion as possible. I also agree that some people have a genetic predisposition to addiction, and sympathize with their struggles (I've experienced this as a family member and friend, as I'm sure you have).

But I don't think it is a disease, because I think that accountability is as important as tolerance. There are just too many convenient associations with the word disease, and if the extreme tough love and ignorance approach failed in the past, well, the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction these days--"I/He/She have/has a disease" becomes slang for "It's not at all my/his/her fault." Drug/alcohol addiction is as much of a disease as nymphomania (maybe even less so)--they may be conditions, but calling them diseases takes a little bit too much of the free will out of the equation, and takes something fundamental away from everyone from cancer patients to those who made the admirable and difficult decision to stop using, own up to their mistakes, rebuild their relationships and lives, and choose to keep themselves together.

I think I would have less of a problem calling it a disease if it was generally only destructive for the user. Just my opinion, and I respect yours.

I call it a disease because it is a disease. Just like depression and bipolar disorder and schizophrenia and OCD, it takes place because of an inbalance of chemicals in the brain, not because someone "decides" to become an alcoholic or drug addict, or because they just don't have the "will" to stop.

Many people drink alcohol and take drugs, but don't become addicted because they're not chemically or genetically predisposed to the disease. I don't like to say this here much, but among other things, I'm a physician, and have dealt with this on not just a personal level, but a professional level as well.

Substance abuse or addiction of any kind is a disease, by the standards of any other disease, and until that's accepted as the norm, the same inadequacies in treatment and understanding will continue.

By the way, I do respect your opinion, and know whereof you speak ... and I wasn't directing my reply at you specifically, but at the general lack of understanding that I see running through this thread. TP for the good discussion, however, on a very difficult topic.

TP for you too, for the same reasons. I appreciate your point of view, and like I said, I don't think we're too far off from one another on the topic in terms of day-to-day realities and need for funding, research, tolerance, and understanding. I just think there's a little more free will involved than in other "disease" scenarios--for what it's worth, I have more sympathy for childhood leukemia patients than for those who smoked a few packs a day and developed lung cancer late in life (especially these days, when everybody knows what cigarettes can do), but I would call the cancer a disease and the nicotine addiction a condition--not a situation where one disease caused another, like AIDS and pneumonia or something.